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Fire vs Water: Natsu Dragneel vs Percy Jackson

I mean, Rep mentioning that when judging heat/temperature output, claiming a mortal nobody like Natsu's flames are hotter than a God of fire, who embodies heat by definition, is kind of hard to believe. However, that doesn't change the fact that Natsu's flames could be hotter because... Well, having a fancy shmancy title doesn't mean shit if you're actually fodder.

That's what the other guy's saying, I think. I agree with Rep here on the Conceptual Heat shit-- but this is coming from a guy who believes that Itachi can't hypnotize Beerus or any Celestial/Skyfather or whatever high tier deity from any verse just because of the fact that they're deities, so... Don't mind me.
 
Natsu being superiour to a sevearly weakend Hyperion isn't realy all that important since the curse prevents Natsu from harming Percy.
 
@Rinkaku

The curse makes percy invulnerable,

Period.

Only Titans of Khronos level have been shown to hurt him.

And even then, he shrugged it off fairly quickly.

I doubt the argument of 'oh natsu flames will burn percy'

Uhh no, with the curse he can tank it easily.

I doubt the argument where natsu has hot flames therefore should hurt percy cuz hotter then lava is a good answer.

It doesnt directly answer his invulnerability.


"It counters his invulnerability!"

Uhh, how? By being a higher tier? Okay, Hades is at least 5-C and same with all the titans. You are telling me, the divine beings he oneshotted or tanked hits from or kept up with is somehow weaker then natsus flame? Yeah that makes no sense to me.


"Conceptual blah blah blah doesnt mean anything"

That is a weak argument and it is also dismissive. Someone who created the concept of heat > someone who makes hot flames. This is narrow concept manipulation. And if you set that aside as an outlier, then realize that Percy has fought beings with beyond anything Natsu can handle.

Also, godslayer flames exist in fairy tail. Minus PIS, he couldnt damage someone with flames designed to kill gods. And percy is a demigod who has fought gods before at the ripe old age of 12.

I admitedly scryed through the argument, I dont think no matter which verse you look at, natsu can hurt percy with his flames.


Percy has fought foes with higher ap, natsu has fought foes with hax.

But percy has no hax, but he has dealt with opponents with higher ap before.

This is not out of the ordinary for him.


/vs debating rant over.


Edit: My argument isnt that percy is 5-C or higher, but more so that he has fought foes with higher ap in the past.

Ares, Hades, Hyperion, Khronos (though admitedly for a brief period of time) and a few others that escape me at the moment.

He stalemated Ares, overpowered Hades physical form, held his own against Hyperion and Khronos is a little too hard to gauge.

Point stands.
 
I already counted RinKaku and Davidsteel didnt vote. Making an argument for a certain character isnt voting, unless he says it.
 
RinKaku did ask you to count his vote though... Or will you simply ignore him? It really seems like you want to ignore Natsu's votes...

Also I VOTE for Natsu, due to Natsu's heat argument, and the fact that it is Hgh 6-C vs 6-C (seriously, how can people argue that Percy's AP is bigger than Natsu's, when stats tell otherwise?
 
I didnt saw his vote (this thread has become long) and I can only count votes if x says: "I vote y for ... reasons".

If there are more votes I will of course count them.
 
Natsu isn't a supernatural being though... At least not anymore. If it was Natsu before the Zeref fight, then I'd actually agree with you.
 
Magic users count as supernatural beings.

Natsu is also still part dragon so even if he isn't a demon any more he still qualifies.

Futher Natsu is still alive dispite the fact that he should be dead which seems pretty supernatural to me.
 
The fact that Natsu is still alive is the whole reason he isn't a supernatural being. Inside of his heart, he himself chose to be a human and not a demon or dragon. Moreover, Lucy overwrote his book, making Natsu a normal human. Honestly, many would prefer if he would be a demon/dragon hybrid, but since the author says he's a human, a human he is.
 
1) Identifying as human doesn't make you human. Case in point, Natsu thought he was human till Zeref said otherwise and he was still a demon before then

2) When Lucy rewrote the book all she did was rewrite the characters that disappeared when Zeref killed Natsu, resurrecting him and then she just wrote about the memories they had shared together.

3) Him choosing to be human over a dragon didn't get rid of any of his draconic traits or abilites so why would him choosing not to be a demon make him human.
 
1)Fair enough

2)The thing is, if he would remain a demon, he would die after Zeref died. That was the whole point throughout the arc. So she rewrote the book, making him a human again.

3)Draconic traits/ablities =/= being a dragon. That's the point of a dragon slayer - they are humans with dragon powers, which after overusage, can turn then into dragons. Acnologia overused his power and turned into a dragon. Natsu didn't. Natsu stopped the dragon seed from growing, so he will never turn into a dragon.
 
2) She didn't know how to rewrite the book due to the language it was written in so she just wrote in some shared memories, which wouldn't work if you think about it. Natsu outliving Zeref is just plot armor. The only way Natsu could have survived is that his life is now tied to someone else's.

3) By that logic Ligers are lions, Zorse's are Horses and Wholphin's are Dolphins.

4) Magic users are also considered supernatural beings in the Riordanverse.
 
That is true. Percy could harm Carter, with his sword, despite the fact that carter didnt host any god at that time and has no supernatural traits, but is a magician
 
2)No, that's the thing, it wasn't simply "plot armor". The huge point in the arc was the fact that Natsu was a demon, but wanted to be a human. And Lucy rewrote him into a human. Was it convenient? Yes. But the fact that rewriting Natsu into a human severed his bond with Zeref even more so proves this point.

3)How so? That logic is quite sound. Dragon Slaying magic is a dragon enchanting his powers into a human. Which, ca have consequences of them turning into a dragon. The point is that a human can wield a dragon's power. They aren't dragons though, which also was pointed out in the story.
 
2) It was never stated that Lucy rewrote Natsu into a human nor was it explained how Natsu is still alive. So plot armor is the only explination and given how frequently plot armor is the reason it is also the most likely.

3) I'm not saying that Natsu is a dragon i'm saying that he is a hybrid due to having traits of both. So Natsu is neither human nor dragon and since dragons are supernatural beings and human/supernatural hybrids are affected by celestial bronze, Percy's sword is capable of harming Natsu.
 
2)We have 2 possibilities. Either:

1. Lucy rewrote the book, and Natsu survived because... reasons

or

2,Lucy rewrote the book, turning Natsu back into human, which was the whole point of the arc so far, +results Natsu in surviving after Zeref dies.

Yeah, I'll go with the more reasonable and likely one. Also the reasoning of "Since FT has a ton of BS, that means that the most likely answer is BS" is BS in itself.

3)Well, maybe you're right. I wouldn't necessarily say that he is a hybrid, but your reasoning is sound.

Which brings me to this question:

What kind of supernatural beings did Percy affect with his sword? And how big was the power difference? I'm not that well versed in the verse, so I don't know for sure.
 
Wasn't "this bloke" in his weakened form? That means he was also 6-C. How easily did he beat him though? Like a stomp or there was still a good fight? Because Natsu should be a lot higher than him, since he's "at least High 6-C".

Isn't Ares 5-C though?
 
Weakened yeah. Ares is the better feat

Yeah, he's 5-C. Percy beat him in a duel. It's a showing of CB's dura ignoring against supernatural/magical beings

So also, I'll just vote Percy for Reppuzan's and Kinky's reasons
 
I think Percy only beat the weakened hyperion due to tactics since it was stated that Hyperion would have eventually overpowered him. Though that doesn't mean that Natsu would win by virtue of being more powerful.

Ares is 5-C but he was fighting fair and Percy still had to get past his dura which he could do with his sword.
 
Hmmm... I don't get one thing though - how did a 6-C level guy almost defeat Percy, despite him having the CB advantage, but a 5-C level guy lose due to CB advantage? Island level and Moon level are leagues diffferent.
 
Hyperion was trying to kill Percy. Ares on the other hand was restraining himself to Percy's level to make their duel fair ie. they both could have won.
 
Oh, I see. Well, I can agree that Percy's sword will give him some kind of advantage, but the fact that Natsu is on another level, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. If Natsu was 6-C, then I would actually consider Percy winning, but as it stands now Natsu can take it - he has the AP advantage(and a serious one), his flames should be enough to severly hurt Percy, and Percy's water won't work since Natsu can easily evaporate it.
 
You would be right there except that Percy is invunerable so Natsu cannot hurt him and Natsu cannot vaporise an entire ocean.
 
Percy still felt pain though, which kinda means that he cannot be killed - doesn't change the fact that he can still be beaten.

Also, Natsu can vaporize a huge lake, and I doubt Percy can control an entire ocean.
 
Percy can still feel pain but he just doesn't take damage.

True but then he doen't have to since Natsu would exhaust him self if he tried to vaporise an entire ocean.
 
KinkiestSins said:
@Rinkaku
The curse makes percy invulnerable,

Period.

Only Titans of Khronos level have been shown to hurt him.

And even then, he shrugged it off fairly quickly.

I doubt the argument of 'oh natsu flames will burn percy'

Uhh no, with the curse he can tank it easily.

I doubt the argument where natsu has hot flames therefore should hurt percy cuz hotter then lava is a good answer.

It doesnt directly answer his invulnerability.


"It counters his invulnerability!"

Uhh, how? By being a higher tier? Okay, Hades is at least 5-C and same with all the titans. You are telling me, the divine beings he oneshotted or tanked hits from or kept up with is somehow weaker then natsus flame? Yeah that makes no sense to me.


"Conceptual blah blah blah doesnt mean anything"

That is a weak argument and it is also dismissive. Someone who created the concept of heat > someone who makes hot flames. This is narrow concept manipulation. And if you set that aside as an outlier, then realize that Percy has fought beings with beyond anything Natsu can handle.

Also, godslayer flames exist in fairy tail. Minus PIS, he couldnt damage someone with flames designed to kill gods. And percy is a demigod who has fought gods before at the ripe old age of 12.

I admitedly scryed through the argument, I dont think no matter which verse you look at, natsu can hurt percy with his flames.


Percy has fought foes with higher ap, natsu has fought foes with hax.

But percy has no hax, but he has dealt with opponents with higher ap before.

This is not out of the ordinary for him.


/vs debating rant over.


Edit: My argument isnt that percy is 5-C or higher, but more so that he has fought foes with higher ap in the past.

Ares, Hades, Hyperion, Khronos (though admitedly for a brief period of time) and a few others that escape me at the moment.

He stalemated Ares, overpowered Hades physical form, held his own against Hyperion and Khronos is a little too hard to gauge.

Point stands.
Click to expand...
Not really. If there have been time where his invulnerability have been breached then you can say that it's invulnerability period.


And how is MY answer weak lol. You and Reppuzan where the ones throwing in "conceptual" like it changes anything. And Hyperion didn't create the concept of flames, he embodies them. And regardless of which neither make his flames especially special, if you created the existance/embody flame your flames are still flames.


And throwing Godlayer flames is weak. The end of the arc basically showed that even though the DS had flames specifically made to kill Dragons they couldn't because they were generally weaker than them anyway.
 
@Rinkaku You just proved my point. Godslayer flames were designed to kill gods. And without eating them and absuing pis, natsu couldnt hurt zancrow. Percy on the other hand has fought gods.

Dude, embodies is basically the lowest tier of concept manipulation, just barely below creating.

And it has never been breached! That is my point. Even Chronos and Hyperion stated they needed to know percy weak spot to hurt him. Chronos only managed to hurt him cuz hax. Not ap. Hyperion on the other hand, couldnt.
 
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