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Percy for the reasons above.
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Fire vs Water: Natsu Dragneel vs Percy Jackson
- Thread starter Meosos
- Start date
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So reasoning for voting Percy as far as I can see:
-He's resistant to volcanic level heats, although the character he's facing far exceeds that
-He'll drown Natsu, ignoring that Natsu can vaporise the water
-Durability negation with celestial bronze... I don't even get this one
-His opponent can't rag doll him because other 6c characters can't, even though said opponent is high 6c?
-Petrification; an ability that Cal mentions off handedly and by a piece of equipment that Percy doesn't even have in this form
-Experience (this actually makes sense, though it's ignoring everything the opponent can do)
-And my personal fav "for reasons above"
Yup seems about right
-He's resistant to volcanic level heats, although the character he's facing far exceeds that
-He'll drown Natsu, ignoring that Natsu can vaporise the water
-Durability negation with celestial bronze... I don't even get this one
-His opponent can't rag doll him because other 6c characters can't, even though said opponent is high 6c?
-Petrification; an ability that Cal mentions off handedly and by a piece of equipment that Percy doesn't even have in this form
-Experience (this actually makes sense, though it's ignoring everything the opponent can do)
-And my personal fav "for reasons above"
Yup seems about right
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The bias is almost as strong as in OP threads lol
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- Thread starter
- #46
As I already said: If this version of Natsu has the AP advantage, we can change the version to make if fair.
1. Percys resistance increases with the curse and when submerged in water. Furthermore: Can you give me proof that Natsus fire is above 2000 degrees ?
2. It will still weaken Natsu, since the energy to do that is gone and his fire could go out ?. They fight near the coast - not sure if Natsu can vaporize an entire ocean.
3. Celestial bronze is a magical metal, created to harm supernatural beings (sending them to Tartarus) and can even damage gods like Ares (at least in his physical form and with essence split - but thats still 5-C dura, until you can prove otherwise). But it will have no effect on Natsu if he is entirely human.
4. I wont defend that argument
5. You are right about this one, its not his standart equipment
6. Still an important factor
Furtmermore: Dont forget that his tornados can extinguesh the fire of Hyperion (Riordan)
1. Percys resistance increases with the curse and when submerged in water. Furthermore: Can you give me proof that Natsus fire is above 2000 degrees ?
2. It will still weaken Natsu, since the energy to do that is gone and his fire could go out ?. They fight near the coast - not sure if Natsu can vaporize an entire ocean.
3. Celestial bronze is a magical metal, created to harm supernatural beings (sending them to Tartarus) and can even damage gods like Ares (at least in his physical form and with essence split - but thats still 5-C dura, until you can prove otherwise). But it will have no effect on Natsu if he is entirely human.
4. I wont defend that argument
5. You are right about this one, its not his standart equipment
6. Still an important factor
Furtmermore: Dont forget that his tornados can extinguesh the fire of Hyperion (Riordan)
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@Meosos
-According to Wikipedia lava can reach up to 1200c (2192F) and sand turns to glass at around 1723c (3133.4F) and Natsu does neither of those he straight up vaporises said elements. Like I mentioned b4 I'm no physics expert and google can only teach u so much but it's fairly obvious that Natsu's temperatures far exceed volcanic heats.
-Except he'd have to drag Natsu under water first, unless u want to suggest he picks up the entire ocean and puts it on Natsu's head?
-Natsu is human at this point so like U said this means nothing
-ok so I won't address it
-Not standard equipment so non-factor
-Experience is very important yes, but 1) Natsu isn't green himalself he's still experienced and very skilled and 2) go over the points made by ur own response 3 out of the 6 arguments made are invalid and I just pointed out y the drowning Natsu argument/ volcanic heat arguments won't work even if u bring up the Curse amping his heat resistance, can u assure us it amps his heat resistance to the levels Natsu's reaches?
-According to Wikipedia lava can reach up to 1200c (2192F) and sand turns to glass at around 1723c (3133.4F) and Natsu does neither of those he straight up vaporises said elements. Like I mentioned b4 I'm no physics expert and google can only teach u so much but it's fairly obvious that Natsu's temperatures far exceed volcanic heats.
-Except he'd have to drag Natsu under water first, unless u want to suggest he picks up the entire ocean and puts it on Natsu's head?
-Natsu is human at this point so like U said this means nothing
-ok so I won't address it
-Not standard equipment so non-factor
-Experience is very important yes, but 1) Natsu isn't green himalself he's still experienced and very skilled and 2) go over the points made by ur own response 3 out of the 6 arguments made are invalid and I just pointed out y the drowning Natsu argument/ volcanic heat arguments won't work even if u bring up the Curse amping his heat resistance, can u assure us it amps his heat resistance to the levels Natsu's reaches?
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Meosos, having an anime/manga as favourite =/= bias. I am a fan of FT, but this doesn't mean I'm bias to it. There's nothing wrong with being a fan of a series, as long as it doesn't affect your common sense.
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Captain Torch said:
That was a extremely unnecessary thing to blurt out. Are you trying to start conflict here? Now watch what you say and drop the discussion.
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Alirght alright. I'm not trying to start a conflict, just stated my opinion. No need to get all riled up over it.
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@davidsteel1
Natsu is still a demon since destroying his dragon seed didn't affect his dragon slayer magic and he was still connected to his book till Zeref died. Furthurmore even if Natsu isn't a demon any more he is still part dragon so celestial bronze should still affect him.
Natsu is still a demon since destroying his dragon seed didn't affect his dragon slayer magic and he was still connected to his book till Zeref died. Furthurmore even if Natsu isn't a demon any more he is still part dragon so celestial bronze should still affect him.
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Natsu stomps.
Davidsteel is right, Natsu's flames are clearly far higher than what Percy can resist, and can easily vapourise any water percy throughts are him.
Davidsteel is right, Natsu's flames are clearly far higher than what Percy can resist, and can easily vapourise any water percy throughts are him.
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Dragon slayers aren't part dragon, they wield the power of dragons yes, overuse of their powers without the proper antibodies will make them dragons yes, they are dragon-like but fundamentally they aren't dragons. They are still human, that was a plot point introduced during the grand magic games arc and was always what made Acnologia a big deal (aside from being the single greatest threat to their world)
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Why haven't you counted the two votes for Percy?Meosos said:
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@Rinkaku
I should probably give what I said earlier context.
Percy wasn't the one who got burned, it was Kronos in Luke's body who ALSO had the Curse of Achilles. In addition, there wasn't actually any harm, he simply jerked back in pain.
In addition, Celestial Bronze can affect anything supernatural, as it's able to cut the likes of Carter Kane, who's a magician.
I should probably give what I said earlier context.
Percy wasn't the one who got burned, it was Kronos in Luke's body who ALSO had the Curse of Achilles. In addition, there wasn't actually any harm, he simply jerked back in pain.
In addition, Celestial Bronze can affect anything supernatural, as it's able to cut the likes of Carter Kane, who's a magician.
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And as for Natsu being a "demon", one of the most significant characteristics of being a demon is his existence relies solely on Zeref being alive. And as u said when Zeref died Natsu stayed alive, the point was even made to show Gray destroying Natsu's demonic power when Lucy had taken it into herself
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But being able to affect anything supernatural isn't realy that bid of a deal. Verse equalization does that anyway, and if he jerked back in pain at that level of heat why wouldn't he be harmed by Natsu's superior heat. And regardless. the whole point of pain is to tell you that you've been harmed...Reppuzan said:
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@Delta
Percy doesn't have "an ocean", he's not strong enough to control an entire ocean at once.
@Rinkaku
I fail to see how Natsu's heat is superior when Percy stared down the literal embodiment of fire and tanked his attacks long enough for Hyperion to be sealed.
Percy doesn't have "an ocean", he's not strong enough to control an entire ocean at once.
@Rinkaku
I fail to see how Natsu's heat is superior when Percy stared down the literal embodiment of fire and tanked his attacks long enough for Hyperion to be sealed.
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@Rep what was Hyperions condition when he faced Percy? Was he at full power or was he weakened, I see 2 keys on his profile and I imagine if Percy could tank attacks from a 5c being at least his durability would scale. And if he was weakened what suggests that his flames would normally be up to his usual standard?
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@davidsteel1 Dragonslayers have non human/dragon physical characterisitics even if they have the anti-bodies. So even if they identify as human, they are not.
That's due to Natsu being a product of living magic; it doesn't stop him being a demon. As for how Natsu outlived Zeref it's a safe bet to call that PIS.
@reppuzan
The battle takes place at the coast and while Percy isn't strong enough to control an entire ocean he can still pull water from it to use as ammo for his hydrokinesis.
That's due to Natsu being a product of living magic; it doesn't stop him being a demon. As for how Natsu outlived Zeref it's a safe bet to call that PIS.
@reppuzan
The battle takes place at the coast and while Percy isn't strong enough to control an entire ocean he can still pull water from it to use as ammo for his hydrokinesis.
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Well that's fine...but you yourself said that Kronos in an Invulnerable body felt pain from heat that is clearly weaker than Natsu's. So which one is more likely? Hyperion's flames were as hot as the sun, or as hot as the core?Reppuzan said:
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Maybe i'm missing something, but why we are assuming that the invulnerability of a 6-C can help against someone who is "at least High 6-C, likely higher". I get the "flames won't do much" argument, but punching him in the face still hurts.
Also, i'm pretty sure that temperature and energy are correlated. If Natsu is High 6-C, his flames are hotter than those of a 6-C
Also, i'm pretty sure that temperature and energy are correlated. If Natsu is High 6-C, his flames are hotter than those of a 6-C
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@Rinkaku
I don't see how fire from the conceptual embodiment of the hearth on Mout Olympus is inferior to Natsu's flames.
And Hestia isn't weakened.
In addition, Luke's body withstood getting blasted by lightning from Zeus' throne, which should count for something.
@Kaltias
Percy might feel the punch, but he wouldn't actually take any damage from it. The Curse of Achilles insures that direct damage via physical force is ultimately meaningless.
Could Percy get burned? I'd think so. But I heavily doubt that Natsu could just roast him.
I don't see how fire from the conceptual embodiment of the hearth on Mout Olympus is inferior to Natsu's flames.
And Hestia isn't weakened.
In addition, Luke's body withstood getting blasted by lightning from Zeus' throne, which should count for something.
@Kaltias
Percy might feel the punch, but he wouldn't actually take any damage from it. The Curse of Achilles insures that direct damage via physical force is ultimately meaningless.
Could Percy get burned? I'd think so. But I heavily doubt that Natsu could just roast him.
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Reppuzan said:
So...basically lava?
A hearth is the base or lower part of a furnace, where molten metal collects.
That's basically Lava!
I'll concede that he wouldn't stomp as I've gotten better knowledge of the Curse (I didn't read all the books), but It still seems like he wins.
And Meosos you still need to count Davidsteels or AT LEAST my vote.
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@Rinkaku
No... it's divine fire from a freaking conceptual embodiment of fire compared to magic from a dragon that the gods can smite by blinking. There's an enormous difference.
Are you just ignoring everything in favor of your own goddamned opinion?
I don't want to get angry, but that's a piss-poor response.
No... it's divine fire from a freaking conceptual embodiment of fire compared to magic from a dragon that the gods can smite by blinking. There's an enormous difference.
Are you just ignoring everything in favor of your own goddamned opinion?
I don't want to get angry, but that's a piss-poor response.
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Screw it, guess I was wrong
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Yes. Two for Natau.Meosos said:
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@Reppu. Didn't the Curse allow Percy to no-sell the attacks of the minor sea gods of the Hudson River and that other one?
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How? You just basically said that Kronos in and Achillies Cursed Body STILL felt pain (which once again, is mean't to be an indicator of bodily harm) from volcanic heat. It's already clear that Natsu's fire is far above that level of heat so he should be able to harm Percy even with his invulnerability. Saying stuff like he's the "conceptual embodiment" blah blah is the real piss-poor answer. And regardless I already took in account that he's the sun anyway but if he is incapable of damaging a person who's invulnerability stop short of lava then i don't see any reason why his flames would be any hotter than the surface of the sun.Reppuzan said:
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@Cal
The river gods didn't do anything particularly impressive, just shoving the water to throw trash into Percy, all of which either bounced off or shattered against his skin.
They threatened to electrocute Percy with some stray power lines, but we never actually see if it would work given that Percy talked them down first. However, Kronos in Luke's body was shocked by lightning from Zeus' throne and briefly stunned. However, he didn't take much actual damage. After rereading the part of the novel, I did find that Hestia smoked and seared Kronos' hand, but again, divine, conceptually empowered fire.
@Rinkaku
Assuming that something that is conceptually superior to anything that Natsu can put out is the same temperature as lava is ridiculous.
The river gods didn't do anything particularly impressive, just shoving the water to throw trash into Percy, all of which either bounced off or shattered against his skin.
They threatened to electrocute Percy with some stray power lines, but we never actually see if it would work given that Percy talked them down first. However, Kronos in Luke's body was shocked by lightning from Zeus' throne and briefly stunned. However, he didn't take much actual damage. After rereading the part of the novel, I did find that Hestia smoked and seared Kronos' hand, but again, divine, conceptually empowered fire.
@Rinkaku
Assuming that something that is conceptually superior to anything that Natsu can put out is the same temperature as lava is ridiculous.
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All this "conceptual" nonsense does nothing to prove that Hylerions fire is superior to Natsu's especially since it came from a character less powerful ghan him regardless. It's just flashy language. YOU were the one who claimed that Hestia was the embodiment of Mt Olympus' HEARTH. I gave the the literal definition of a hearth, and the hearth of a Mountain is basically lava.Reppuzan said:
Once again: A hearth is the base or lower part of a furnace, where molten metal collects.
In regards to a Mountain, and since its a place where molte metal collects, the hearth of a Mountain would basically be lava.
That means the Hestia is the conceptual embodiment of lava. If she is then why should anything she puts out be hotter than lava? And certainly why should anything that Hyperion (who l acknowledged as the Sun) be even any thing MORE than the tempreture of the suns surface (even the suns surface is a stretch)?
Lava is 1200C, and the suns surface is 5505C. Thats a huge difference.
Oh and by the way stone melts at 1500C. So yes Natsu has hotter flames.
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