FIRE FORCE CRT: FTL IS POSSIBLE AND COMBAT APPLICABLE!

[Arnoldstone18]

Oddly enough, she was blitzed by the lightspeed timestop as well.

Couldn't perceive him then... Can probably perceive him now...

Remember when you said she made it a big deal even after watching everyone fight?

Congrats you just proved Base Haumea can't perceive Shinra's battles and that only an Amped Haumea can actually see Shinra react to a light-speed attack for the first time

 

[Arkenis]

That's not a blitz, there was nothing to dodge.

Wdym there was nothing to dodge? What ability is this if it doesn't travel?

 

[Majinere566]

 

[Quangotjokes]

Remember when you said she made it a big deal even after watching everyone fight?

Congrats you just proved Base Haumea can't perceive Shinra's battles and that only an Amped Haumea can actually see Shinra react to a light-speed attack for the first time

What? Lol, she launched a lightspeed attack and he deflected it. She doesn't have to perceive the kick to know that.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Wdym there was nothing to dodge? What ability is this if it doesn't travel?

Do you not see his body being twisted in the scan?

 

[Arkenis]

Do you not see his body being twisted in the scan?

It also says he got pierced, and I don't think a twist means anything.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Hey @Nelliels , Shinra doesn't disintegrate in stopped time here.

He is stationary, having a conversation and everything lol

And yet his time manipulation isnt an inherent ability to him.

 

[Quangotjokes]

It also says he got pierced, and I don't think a twist means anything.

Doesn't say that at all.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Hey @Nelliels , Shinra doesn't disintegrate in stopped time here.

He is stationary, having a conversation and everything lol

And yet his time manipulation isnt an inherent ability to him.

Ignoring the adolla links they have?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ignoring the adolla links they have?

I don't get your point. The Adolla link allows Shinra to perform this feat via speed right? So... Where is the speed?

The ability to manipulate time is inherent to Shinra and those who scale above him in durability should be able to react to Shinra and not disintegrate trying to.

 

[Quangotjokes]

I don't get your point. The Adolla link allows Shinra to perform this feat via speed right? So... Where is the speed?

The ability to manipulate time is inherent to Shinra and those who scale above him in durability should be able to react to Shinra and not disintegrate trying to.

He's moving ftl, he already dematerialize and reassembled.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He's moving ftl, he already dematerialize and reassembled.

Omg

 

[Quangotjokes]

Omg

?? How else would he damage people of he doesn't dematerialize?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Approaches SOL - start disintegrating
Reaches SOL and goes beyond it - goes into the past before he de materialize
Decelerates - remateralize.

Not hard to grasp

“Surpass light speed and go to the past”***

Yes means same thing
Surpassing light speed means going into the past it has been stated so many times

You’ve been repeating what’s in my OP. But slightly changing some of it by citing Shinra explaining his own inherent ability to everyone surpassing light speed means they must time travel. coupled with the fact that you’ve been unable to correctly explain how Sho was astonished Joker reacted to him without an Adolla link.

Sho was saying there is no point in staying if there is no more a link to adolla
And also Sho could have simply slowed down time, no proof he stopped time especially when we have joker still talking.
Same joker gets blitzed by burns
Same burns could barely react to a rel shinra.
This thread is a joke

YOU DONT EVEN BELIEVE SHINRA TIME TRAVELLED IN THE SCAN YOU'RE TAGGING .

He did not physically travel here all these happened in his mind/adolla
The mechanics of the verse was explained there again, which is why yes I can use what Inca and Shinra said there.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

?? How else would he damage people of he doesn't dematerialize?

I don’t know maybe the cataclysm made him strong enough to go FTL without dematerializing or… He just has the good ol’fashioned Time stop resistance as one of his Adolla ability to support that time manipulation is inherent to him.

What was your reply on Joker reacting to Sho again?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I don’t know maybe the cataclysm made him strong enough to go FTL without dematerializing or…

Idk maybe - head canon

He just has the good ol’fashioned Time stop resistance as one of his Adolla ability to support that time manipulation is inherent to him.

Except we see Inca also time traveling when she goes past SOL, it’s an inverse mechanic.
Also yes shinra was no longer affected by sho severed universe as shown in later in the series and also stated btw

 

[Arkenis]

Doesn't say that at all.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Ah I see, still not a blitz if he was off guard.

 

[Arkenis]

Ah I see, still not a blitz if he was off guard.

he was about to fight her, same with sho standing there

 

[Quangotjokes]

he was about to fight her, same with sho standing there

Look at the scan again, he clearly wasn't expecting an attack.

 

[Arkenis]

Look at the scan again, he clearly wasn't expecting an attack.

he staring at her and ready to fight

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Approaches SOL - start disintegrating
Reaches SOL and goes beyond it - goes into the past before he de materialize
Decelerates - remateralize.

Not hard to grasp

Can you prove he rematerializes as he decelerates? If you cant prove it, I guess that's probably headcanon, don't you think?

Yes means same thing
Surpassing light speed means going into the past it has been stated so many times

Yeah it’s inherently Shinra’s adolla ability

Sho was saying there is no point in staying if there is no more a link to adolla

I disagree lol, why do you say so?

They both complemented each other.

And also Sho could have simply slowed down time, no proof he stopped time especially when we have joker still talking.

Sho is not going to slow down time for someone as reputable as Joker, especially when he stopped time for a defeated Shinra on his knees.

Same joker gets blitzed by burns

Same Burns who reacted to Shinra when he was unwilling to dodge his attacks?

Same burns could barely react to a rel shinra.

He doesn't "barely" react, He refuses to dodge any of his attacks and either tank them or block them.

And then proceeds to literally block an FTL Shinra here, go reread the fight.

He did not physically travel here all these happened in his mind/adolla
The mechanics of the verse was explained there again, which is why yes I can use what Inca and Shinra said there.

They time traveled regardless and the mechanics explain contradicts Licht who claims Shinra literally dies in particle form... The mechanics was explained then so are we just going to pick and choose what to agree with for the sake of disagreeing with this thread?

If you don't believe they time traveled, disregard the entire scene in your argument because you're contradicting yourself by implying that the explanation matters meaning Shinra will not degenerate once he goes 250 years in the past "physically".

Idk maybe - head canon

?
He asked a question and said something your argument doesn't acknowledge.

Except we see Inca also time traveling when she goes past SOL, it’s an inverse mechanic.
Also yes shinra was no longer affected by sho severed universe as shown in later in the series and also stated btw

why isnt he no longer affected and stated by who?

 

[PrinceofPein]

This will likely be my last major post on the matter as you are not bringing anything new to the thread

Can you prove he rematerializes as he decelerates? If you cant prove it, I guess that's probably headcanon, don't you think?

Literally said he goes back in time to before he disintegrated
Meaning he goes back in time to before he started accelerating and gaining that speed

How hard can it be to ******* read and conclude something as simple as this

Yeah it’s inherently Shinra’s adolla ability

So Inca too has such an ability since going FTL made her time travel??

I disagree lol, why do you say so?

You disagreeing does not change what sho said

They both complemented each other.

Sho is not going to slow down time for someone as reputable as Joker, especially when he stopped time for a defeated Shinra on his knees.

Another head canon
Argue with what was shown not what you think

Same Burns who reacted to Shinra when he was unwilling to dodge his attacks?

He doesn't "barely" react, He refuses to dodge any of his attacks and either tank them or block them.

Proceeds to raise his arm to block a kick from an accelerating shinra

And then proceeds to literally block an FTL Shinra here, go reread the fight.

Shinra is not FTL and does not kick at FTL

They time traveled regardless and the mechanics explain contradicts Licht who claims Shinra literally dies in particle form... The mechanics was explained then so are we just going to pick and choose what to agree with for the sake of disagreeing with this thread?

No nothing was contradicted and nobody here is cherry picking
It’s literally what was shown. And shinra dying was an illustration like read

If you don't believe they time traveled, disregard the entire scene in your argument because you're contradicting yourself by implying that the explanation matters meaning Shinra will not degenerate once he goes 250 years in the past "physically".

I said they did not physically go into the past
Or did they?

why isnt he no longer affected and stated by who?

You will have to ask ohkubo the reason he is no longer affected I don’t like writing for the author
It was stated during shinra x sho vs haumea
Sho asked shinra that he was not affected by his time-stops and shinra said yes.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway I DISAGREE with this thread fully

I was waiting for your thread to drop before I continued my thread series maybe you will have something valid for their speed like you claimed but as it turns out you don’t.

I will drop my thread sometimes during the week

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y'all know that you can react to speeds without being that speed right? Like a relativistic character can react to an FTL character. If a LS projectile came at me from 100 meters away and I evaded it by moving 1 meter, I'd only have to move at sub-relativistic speeds to react to and evade that LS projectile. I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I see a lot of "but he reacted to this" being thrown around. So, just make sure that when the character is reacting, it's not just reacting but reacting by moving a comparable distance to what they're reacting to.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Y'all know that you can react to speeds without being that speed right? Like a relativistic character can react to an FTL character. If a LS projectile came at me from 100 meters away and I evaded it by moving 1 meter, I'd only have to move at sub-relativistic speeds to react to and evade that LS projectile. I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I see a lot of "but he reacted to this" being thrown around. So, just make sure that when the character is reacting, it's not just reacting but reacting by moving a comparable distance to what they're reacting to.

I know, the feats being discussed are at close to point-blank ranges which typically give higher values.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I know, the feats being discussed are at close to point-blank ranges which typically give higher values.

Shinra does not and has never attacked anyone at FTL speed, the quicker you get that the better

 

[Arkenis]

Hopefully the hax section for this verse is better than the speed rating

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Shinra does not and has never attacked anyone at FTL speed, the quicker you get that the better

kicks while reforming at faster than light speeds.

Can't fight Sho's severed universe without being at FTL speeds. At light speeds, he has already disintegrated, and he can't even engage Sho in combat at lower than light speeds. This means he has to attack at FTL speeds to do any harm. Decelerating below LS means

Approaches SOL - start disintegrating
Reaches SOL and goes beyond it - goes into the past before he de materialize
Decelerates - remateralize.

You cant tell me Shinra reforms at Light speed when he disintegrated before light speeds

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Hopefully the hax section for this verse is better than the speed rating

Look at this, Check out how similar the scenarios are.

Y'all know that you can react to speeds without being that speed right? Like a relativistic character can react to an FTL character. If a LS projectile came at me from 100 meters away and I evaded it by moving 1 meter, I'd only have to move at sub-relativistic speeds to react to and evade that LS projectile. I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I see a lot of "but he reacted to this" being thrown around. So, just make sure that when the character is reacting, it's not just reacting but reacting by moving a comparable distance to what they're reacting to

Look how close they are from each other btw. Since I believe Shinra was FTL I thought it was so close of a distance to warrant a direct scale. Cuz shinra is shorter than him normally and just a bit far it looks like tens of meters range.

While this is clearly point-blank then absolutely fighting on part with Sho. So he obviously scales to Sho.

 

[PrinceofPein]

You repeating the same stuffs over and over again won’t change a thing, nobody is getting FTL over your sus and faulty logic
Especially the sho part
1. Shinra was going at light speed, which means time has stopped for him, while sho stopped time for everything so practically both of them are fighting in time stops. Meaning -
2. Sho does not strike at light speed

Time Stop does not grant a user infinite speed(in this case light speed) nor does otherwise slowing down time increase somebody's speed rating. These abilities decrease the speed of others instead, while leaving the user's speed the same, and should as such be listed in the powers & abilities sections instead.

Btw still on the stand that sho did not stop time against joker btw just slowed it down.
We have joker still talking and even continued talking while he was been struck.
That is the only thing that is worth addressing in your post above

Shinra did not kick burns at FTL or light speed, he was still disintegrating when he kicked him meaning he was just approaching light speed
And that calls for a downgrade now that I think about it, would make the thread myself later on.

And lastly get this right it’s really simple.
Anything going past speed of light in the series travels to the past, so no one and absolutely no one will be able to perform FTL feat without moving to the past.

Stated and shown multiple times.

Edit; Shinra does not reform at FTL speed he is already in the past where he never disintegrated in the first place or had any form of acceleration
That’s another thing you should know too.

Rel+ And lesser speed = Nothing happens
Speed of light = Time stops
Faster than SOL = start moving back in time

The verse mechanics are not hard to comprehend just reach a confluence with the information provided

 

[Quangotjokes]

Joker couldn't be ftl to begin with because he was out paced by a later Shinra who during the burns fight was getting faster and faster and still approaching lightspeed.

 

[Tomboy11]

"This is the world you end up in when you go past light speed"

Speed only

In this case it may be applicable to scale his speed to his Durabilty, Shira says speed= more striking power and his body has to be able to stand the amount of energy being generated from his kick if not his body would break every time he attacked at such speeds . This may not be the case when he reaches

Your scan doesn’t relate to your claim. That happened after they disintegrate.

being able to hold your body together at high speeds is a durability feat. Now explain why this doesn’t apply in this case

In this case it may be applicable to scale his speed to his Durabilty, Shira says speed= more striking power and his body has to be able to stand the amount of energy being generated from his kicks, if not his body would break every time he attacked at such speeds . But still he ends up Turning into particles because his body cannot fully stand the speed I guess

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah this makes sense, Shinras durability is just lower than others.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Joker couldn't be ftl to begin with because he was out paced by a later Shinra who during the burns fight was getting faster and faster and still approaching lightspeed.

Sigh

he didn't want to fight anymore due to his ideology ^^^. plus he still watched the entirety of the fight.
Saying he was outpaced is wrong, bring scans showing otherwise.

You repeating the same stuffs over and over again won’t change a thing, nobody is getting FTL over your sus and faulty logic
Especially the sho part
1. Shinra was going at light speed, which means time has stopped for him, while sho stopped time for everything so practically both of them are fighting in time stops. Meaning -
2. Sho does not strike at light speed

Btw still on the stand that sho did not stop time against joker btw just slowed it down.
We have joker still talking and even continued talking while he was been struck.
That is the only thing that is worth addressing in your post above

Shinra did not kick burns at FTL or light speed, he was still disintegrating when he kicked him meaning he was just approaching light speed
And that calls for a downgrade now that I think about it, would make the thread myself later on.

And lastly get this right it’s really simple.
Anything going past speed of light in the series travels to the past, so no one and absolutely no one will be able to perform FTL feat without moving to the past.

Stated and shown multiple times.

Edit; Shinra does not reform at FTL speed he is already in the past where he never disintegrated in the first place or had any form of acceleration
That’s another thing you should know too.

Rel+ And lesser speed = Nothing happens
Speed of light = Time stops
Faster than SOL = start moving back in time

The verse mechanics are not hard to comprehend just reach a confluence with the information provided

That's what I'm doing. reaching a confluence with all the information provided. This is my last response to you tbh.

There is nowhere that states Shinra's 4th generation ability is an in-verse mechanic. It is all Shinra. You can't use Shinra's powers and his explanation of his powers to speak for the verse. Licht trying to use physics to explain otherwordly abilities is wrong because it contains a lot of errors and inconsistencies, the powers itself break the laws of physics, and he can only explain things he can perceive. The whole time travel, lightspeed, thing is all Shinra's time-manipulating power. Moreover, The faster Shinra goes, the further back he can see in the past so we need to either scale the 250-year feat or put in a Far higher rating.

The reason why Shinra disintegrates is because his body is not durable enough to endure the shock at a certain speed, If you have a high enough durability you will be able to keep your body together. This makes sense because he is generating energy his body can't control. The characters who have reacted to Shinra's Adolla Burst and Sho's Severed Universe are physically more durable than Base Shinra and can react at high speeds without breaking apart. There is nowhere that states all objects disintegrate at light speed. If you insist you are going to have to prove it. Please do not use the instance Shinra and Inca disintegrated in their astral forms to see the past. Shinra regenerates by reversing the age of his particles and the process keeps him that way.

1. Why Shinra Kusakabe is FTL

In particle form, Shinra is turning back time on his particles by moving faster than light. After this, Shinra strikes at faster than light speeds. Any lower speeds won't make sense lore-wise. No, Shinra does not decelerate to relativistic speeds because he will not be able to invade Sho's Severed universe if this is true. No, Shinra decelerating to light speed does not make sense because he disintegrates at light speeds. Coupled with the fact that he gets blitzed or he can't generate enough power at the speeds prior to disintegration, which is the whole reason why he speeds up in the first place. The only option is for Shinra to strike at Faster than Light speeds. Also, I already mentioned why Shinra should get a far higher rating above and below. How does Shinra maintain his body at FTL speeds? It's simple, as the particles reintegrate the process does not stop so that holds his body together at FTL speeds as he strikes his opponent. Nothing shows he decelerates anyway unless you have scan to prove it. So I propose the following:


Change this

Speed: At least Relativistic (Faster than lasers that go this fast), higher with Rapid (When Shinra uses Rapid, his speed increases far above his normal speed), even higher with Superfire (Faster than Rapid), Speed of Light to FTL with Adolla Burst (Accelerates to the speed of light and stops time, then accelerates faster than light and time travels)

to this

Speed: At least Relativistic (Faster than lasers that go this fast), higher with Rapid (When Shinra uses Rapid, his speed increases far above his normal speed), even higher with Superfire (Faster than Rapid), Speed of Light to FTL with Adolla Burst (Accelerates to the speed of light, stops time, then accelerates faster than light to reintegrate and attack) | FTL travel speed, likely Far Higher ( capable of going even faster with the Adolla burst; going further back in time to see his early life and 250 years prior to the first Cataclysm.)

2. Why Burns scales to Shinra:


Shinra, on the verge of bleeding out and overheating, accessed his hysterical strength "The Press Of Death". During this time he links with Sho's grace and he began to disintegrate. Coupled with the fact that Shinra intends to give it all he has got. With access to grace through Sho and the sheer resolve, Shinra moved at his top speed. And we all know his Top speed. Burns blocked the kick. He can also blitz Joker so.

We should change the rating from this

Speed: At least Relativistic, likely higher (Comparable to Shinra's Superfire)

To this

Speed: At least Relativistic in base with FTL reactions at stage 4 (Comparable to Shinra's Superfire and reacted to Shinra's Adola burst)

3. Why Joker scales to Sho:

Sho with severed universe keeps up with Shinra and Joker can keep up with Sho. Joker reacts to Sho at point-blank range while the severed universe was active. Sho is even astonished by this feat. Sho stops time, as he has never slowed down time in character.


We should change the rating from this

Speed: At least Relativistic (Faster than Shinra and can keep up with Sho)

To this

Speed: At least Relativistic with Speed of Light reactions (can keep up with Sho's Severed Universe)

Honestly, I should add this to the OP as it is easier to read

 

[PrinceofPein]

Lol
Already told you what’s up, you being adamant has nothing to do with me.

I disagree

 

[Quangotjokes]

Tbh Shinra's power comes from speed and he oneshotted Burns once he hit rel speeds. So the durability argument doesn't work there as burns would dematerialize at lightspeed.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Tbh Shinra's power comes from speed and he oneshotted Burns once he hit rel speeds. So the durability argument doesn't work there as burns would dematerialize at lightspeed.

Alright, I understand.
I just thought the last response would change your mind.

 

[Zoldyck59]

Heavily biased disagreements without any real consideration of the OP. Sad to see.

 

[KingTempest]

Yall call everything biased when it's deadass from tackling what the series has in store.

Disagreeing