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Final Fantasy Discussion thread IV: Elemental Fiends, assemble!!

You are basically implying Tifa could hit harder than sephy lol. Cloud uses a sword although that just to do great effect, since Cloud is not glass canon his durability should scales to his attacks through and through"minus limit brekas" because he's physical fighter

Tifa did no damage to Loz and got basically one shootted by him. Geostigma Cloud fend off loz AND his brother after tackling multiple attacks from Loz throughout the whole fight and kept reacting to Loz spamming teleportation which has nothing to do his sword skills.

Tifa got almost killed by SIN casual blast while Cloud shrugged off a Charged up blast and sliced the beast in half.

Notice that everything I mentioned above applies to geostigma Cloud "who was basically dying" and not full power Cloud who is basically Sepirorh tier with his OP limit breaks.

Cloud is too strong and fast for tifa skills to factor into anything. Black widow isn't beating Thaons just because he dropped his sword. There us huge gap between Cloud and his waifu.

This of course applies to AC Cloud. Game I dunno.
 
Loz' strength and speed is watered down version of Spehy and the real Sepiroth was impressed by Cloud strength so I pretty confident in saying Cloud is physically stronger than Loz.
 
Ah, my bad. What I meant to say it's doubtful that Tifa can hurt Cloud if Cloud could endure the force that stopped one of his strongest Limit Breaks (Kinda goes like this: Cloud uses the Original Omnislash with Sephiroth easily parries with normal swings, then Sephiroth uses Octaslash one of his stronger moves on Cloud, who manages to block a couple of slashes but takes several more, yet manages to keep fighting.)

I was kinda giving Tifa the benefit of doubt regarding Limit Breaks, as Cloud's always use a sword (even his shining moments where he surpassed his limits in Before Crisis and Nibelheim had him wielding one, even though in the latter case it has the nodachi inserted in his spine) and not really considering the use of Materia, since if spells come into the table Cloud takes it simply because of being a superior Materia user and overall better spellcaster, even without the stat difference. If Cloud can use use Karate Chop Beam or Omnipunch it would give him the fight as well.

Thanos got into a match of fistycuffs with Odin though But seriously, that's why I am thinking she would stalemate at best. Though I am assuming that Cloud doesn't really have hand to hand skills aside very basic ones, though. That sort of lack of training actually hinders what would overall be a superior performance with clumsy and telegraphed moves, contrary to Loz using well aimed and timed strikes (Tifa could withstand an attack of the Dual Hound that she could parry, but not a well placed one in her stomach, for example). Not to mention that unlike with Loz who she had just met and didn't know about his true strength or his teleporting abilities, Tifa is well aware of how strong Cloud is and has become, so she would be pretty wary of his raw power. Remember also that Tifa's style is about dodge and counter and feints instead of trading blows. But as you mention, she can't really hurt him even with Limit Breaks (perhaps Final Heaven as it negates durability). Another factor that I remembered, is that even if Tifa can avoid Cloud and dictate the pace of the fight, she's certainly going to get exhausted before Cloud given spiky's monstruous stamina. >_>;

Now as you mention, this is for AC. In FFVII they are both on the same league even if Cloud is somewhat stronger. Tifa is portrayed as faster and almost as hard hitting as Cloud, but more of a glass cannon and less skilled with magic. What would give her the fight is that here her Martial Arts skill does count enormously as Cloud hasn't created yet the huge gap in raw capabilities that exist in AC.
 
Game Tifa lost slapping match with scarlet, Cloud stomps (ÔûÇ╠┐─╣╠»ÔûÇ╠┐ ╠┐)
 
I like to think Cloud did it on porpuse to troll Barret. Honestly, if that was intentional, it's some good timing on AC's Staff's part (granted, from what I've read around, the duel against Sephy lasted several hours, though I can't confirm it)

On another note, got these calcs for FFVII (many thanks to KGiffoni): https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KGiffoni/Some_Final_Fantasy_feats

Not an upgrade but for the beginning of the game. Lol, from 8-C to far into 4-B not too shabby for a bunch of misfits.
 
heyy so, shouldn't FF7 be 4-A since a lot of the summon dimensions contain dozens of stars in the background, including Bahamut Fury's who is 4-B because his dimension contains planets or something like that
 
4-A by virtue of a starry sky is a tricky issue. I really think need some sort of confirmation of several variables there, such as the character having some power over the dimension and its stars to show he could have made them or controls them, interacting with them somehow or mentioning them to show they are real. Personally I am pretty wary of assuming that stars or or star-like lights in the sky immediately equate to 4-A.

In FFVII's case, while Knights of the Round and Bahamut Fury do have a starry dimension, the lore itself contradicts them having a 4-A range power. More specifically, it kinda goes like this: both Knights of the Round and Bahamut Fury are surpassed by a Summon called Zirconiade which is openly acknowledged as the ultimate Summon and requires several Support Materia to be called. When Zirconiade was destroyed the Planet sent a single Weapon to investigate, the Jade Weapon. Now, when Jenova arrived at the Planet and started vicious destruction, the Planet saw necessary to create 8 Weapons as a countermeasure (Ultimate, Diamond, Emerald, Sapphire, Ruby, Jade, Chaos and Omega), and during the events of the original game the party defeats Jenova SYNTHESIS which is stated to be her ultimate form and "the closest to perfection" which is still weaker than Sephiroth whose ultimate move is the 4-B Supernova. While I don't like using the term, everything seems to point out that 4-A for the summons is an outlier.
 
Scaling from Dissidia? That would not quite be Low 2-C but possibly 2-A, from what I get >_>

Speaking of, I was thinking that perhaps you should split Shinryu's profile into several when it comes to incarnations that are unrelated to another. Ones we know are the same such as Dissidia and FFV go together, but others where the monster is just Shinryu in name only like the unreasonably difficult douchebag of FFX could get a profile of their own.
 
Just make them all 2-A

That way I can have my tier 2 Chocobo.
 
@Pachi: Chocobos Tier 1 though, remember the VS thread where the Gold Chocobo stomped Reinhard so hard that none of us remember it.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
then again, nobody's ever allowed to make FF stat revisions except ever tho amirite
Click to expand...
You pushed the Ever button.

you shouldnt did that
 
@Zephyros: To be fair, when it comes to tiering revisions stuff can get controversial and is put under a much stricter criteria of revision before being accepted (and to be fair, scaling and tiering in JRPGs can be confusing and pretty messy with many crazy jumps), I've brough a couple of points that were soundly rejected as well. When it comes to lore and abilities, however, there have been many successful CRTs. Remember you have made several additions to the FFV cast that have gone through or the overhaul FFVIII received as well.
 
Well... I'm don't deny that. Though what I mean is just that making a case to revise stats is harder to do and will need deeper discussion for its acceptance.
 
TartaChocholate said:
Well... I'm don't deny that. Though what I mean is just that making a case to revise stats is harder to do and will need deeper discussion for its acceptance.
Click to expand...
yeah, but it always comes down to "ever said this so the answer is no".

That happened for FF5, and with FF10, it was "Ever is playing this, so he'll probably find something anyway"
 
I... see your point and understand why you're upset about it. I guess it's pretty hard properly convey the input of a knowledgeable member who is no longer active on the site without coming as parroting, but I believe it has to do more than that, that Ever can't give his thoughts directly so someone has to speak for him and it feels a bit cheap.

I can't really speak for the FFV tiering, as I sat out of that discussion due to my lack of knowledge of that game, but in the FFX thread while it was brought up that things should be put on hold until Ever gave his input and they were called out for it, resuming discussion afterwards. Now the discussion is still going but the tier is currently unchanged for different reasons, which are thanks to the input of those who participated in the thread.
 
@Stickman: That's... a pretty good question actually. I'll see what I can find.

@Zero: Fingers crossed as well, give us our good boi Nanaki X(
 
I'm trying top make a list opf the type of voids in FF and the void in Dimensions has some similarities and no contradictions to the void in V since both are connected to the entire FF multiverse

speaking of V why don't any of the main characters have infinite speed, yes I know its because Gilgamesh scaling but just make Gilgamesh's instance an outlier if that's the case (but he did fight against a few Dissidia characters who should be comparable to Dissidia COD who has infinite speed like her canon version but eh)
 
I'm actually pretty interested to see the different types of Voids in the verse and what traits they share and differ in. Have you considered making a blog or such? Because it would be a pretty good read.

Can't really speak for FFV in itself, but Dissidia isn't used for scaling AFAIK as it would bump everyone to 2-A and Immesurable regardless of everything else. Still, I think it's worth a shot to make a case for FFV but with the all the backup on why it should count.
 
IMG 20191203 154111
IMG 20191203 154059
So, found a few things... This could give Matter Manipulation to Atomos (who can eventually get his own profile) and resistance to it to all who battled and defeated him.
IMG 20191203 154132
Similarly, the M
IMG 20191203 154042
Mandragora and Toneberry here could make a case for Resistance to Madness Manipulation to those who confronted them.
 
Glad I could help. I'll share anything else I can find.

Lol, Gilgamesh is such a bro, participating in all the scaling chains of the series XD
 
Here's the Absolute Zero Shiva bits that could help:

Screenshot of her FF Explorers profile: Here

And translation:

Original Japanese:

  • ÕåÀµ░ùÒéÆÒüñÒüïÒüòÒü®ÒéïÕżÕûÜþìúÒÇéÒéÀÒâ¬Òâ╝Òé║ÒüºÒü»FFÔàóÒüîÕêØþÖ╗Õá┤Òü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒéÀÒâ┤ÒéíÒÇéþÁÂÕ»¥ÚøÂÕ║ªÒü«ÕåÀµ░ùÒü½ÒéêÒéèÒÇüÒé¿Òé»Òé╣ÒâùÒâ¡Òâ╝Òâ®Òâ╝ÒüƒÒüíÒéÆÞïªÒüùÒéüÒéïÒÇéÒéÀÒâ┤Òéíµ£ÇÕñºÒü«þë╣Õ¥┤Òü»ÒÇüÕ©©Òü½ÕåÀµ░ùÒü«Òé¬Òâ╝Òâ®ÒéÆÒü¥Òü¿ÒüäÒÇüÞ┐æÒüÑÒüÅÒüáÒüæÒüºþø©µëïÒéÆÒÇîÕçìþÁÉÒÇìþèµàïÒü½ÒüÖÒéï
  • Reiki o tsukasadoru shōkankemono. Shir─½zude wa FF Ôàó ga hatsu tōjō to naru shivu~a. Zettaireido no reiki ni yori, ekusupurōr─ü-tachi o kurushimeru. Shivu~a saidai no tokuchō wa, tsuneni reiki no ōra o matoi, chikadzuku dake de aite o `tōketsu' jōtai ni suru.
Rough English Translation:

  • Summoned beast that controls cold. Shiva is the first appearance of FF III in the series. The chills of absolute zero cause the Explorers to suffer. Shiva's biggest feature is always wearing a cold aura, and just approaching it will freeze it
 
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