Final Fantasy 1-6 major revisions

[Theglassman12]

Pretty much, anyways if that's all that needs to be discussed I'll add the changes.

 

[Eficiente]

All the monsters, and subsequently all the bosses would gain type 2, and 4 Acausality, and resistance to Soul Manipulation/Life Force Absorption, as they can walk down the devil's road without losing their life force, and drain one's soul and as stated in the novel by the narrator, the characters "walk the path of the demon", and the concept of time doesn't exist, and the past, present and future are merged as one in this realm.

Acausality is wrong, from what you show that's a mechanic of the place that doesn't kill others and doesn't apply when they leave, a character there even sees their future from what I imagine is once they leaved the place. Past and future not existing is also clearly poetic as they only don't exist where they should be are still there, only closer to the present, hence the future can be seen there.

This would also scale to any magic user as they were the ones who made this realm as stated in the novels, which would grant them Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), and Space-Time Manipulation for having these traits shown, and being capable of resisting magic in general.

That's like saying that any user of any power system should scale to the same powers. If they created the place then good for them.

Magic should also gain Law Manipulation as it's stated more than once to twist the natural order of things.

The first link already proves this correct, but the wording you used makes it look very iffy, I would recommend changing it.

“

As Guy helped him stand, Firion looked at Elma, a beautiful young corpse and not a hint of demonic possession about her.

„

“

However, on the other side of happiness, demons steadily crept up. That same demonic energy that had overtaken both Elma and Leon the night before.

„

Could be wrong but why would all demons have it if this demon(s) did?

Due to new lore information, there should be additional hax and resistances to everyone capable of casting these particular spells and resisting said spells respectively for the following reason:

• Blood Manipulation: the Death spell is capable of solidifying the target's blood to kill them.
• Soul Manipulation: the Raise spell can bring back a spirit to a deceased body. And the Death spell is shown to rip the soul out of a victim when they die.

If they get their soul ripped, Soul Manip, if not Blood Manip. You can't have it 2 ways. Clearly the effects can vary from game to game and in this specific case we know the extend of it.

Gilgamesh, being an esper in the game given when you beat him he turns into a Magicite to aid you, was erased like the rest of the Espers as shown in the ending of 6, but he's able to come back unlike the rest of the Espers, so he should get Mid-Godly regeneration for coming back from the events of 6.

Where does he come back?

His Base form should have all the powers of the espers since the opening of the Esper realm he took out and captured every single esper out there and absorbed Ifrit's fire in the process and has taken their magicites

He took those Espers' magicites, not all that exist.

The latter will be flat out 2-C thanks to Gilgamesh showing up there and they defeat him.

This Gilgamesh being an Esper should make him his own Gilgamesh and scale to his own feats.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

If they get their soul ripped, Soul Manip, if not Blood Manip. You can't have it 2 ways. Clearly the effects can vary from game to game and in this specific case we know the extend of it.

Just going to point out that in this accepted CRT that magic in FF has various applications of the same spell from game to game as well as within each self contained game (With FF1 upto FF6 taking place all within the same local cosmology and being canon to each other) so the death spell having both Soul and Blood manipulation isn't really that far-fetched plus P&A overlapping is quite common in fiction, so yeah you can have it both ways.

 

[HST_Master]

Acausality is wrong, from what you show that's a mechanic of the place that doesn't kill others and doesn't apply when they leave, a character there even sees their future from what I imagine is once they leaved the place. Past and future not existing is also clearly poetic as they only don't exist where they should be are still there, only closer to the present, hence the future can be seen there.

Doesn't say that the past and future don't exist, but that they are all merged. Also what? What does it not directly saying "you're gonna die" have to do with it being directly stated to drain your life and soul?

That's like saying that any user of any power system should scale to the same powers. If they created the place then good for them.

When it's just the most general of magic, yes and that's how power systems work unless specified.

Could be wrong but why would all demons have it if this demon(s) did?

Don't know what you mean here

If they get their soul ripped, Soul Manip, if not Blood Manip. You can't have it 2 ways. Clearly the effects can vary from game to game and in this specific case we know the extend of it.

It's the same spell but applied differently, several spells like Blizzard and Fire also do this.

Where does he come back?

He shows up again in other games, this isn't even the 1st instance of him being a summon

He took those Espers' magicites, not all that exist.

He drained a majority of them already in the facility. All the rest he got in Thamasa were the ones from the sealed gate, he quite literally got a large majority of all espers, only ones he didn't were already magicite and elsewhere like Odin.

This Gilgamesh being an Esper should make him his own Gilgamesh and scale to his own feats.

Gilgamesh is an Esper in XII revenant wings as well and a Pseudo Guardian Force in VIII and references them as well. Being an Esper in VI doesn't mean he's not the same person.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Eficiente no the statement literally mentions how they walk the path of the demon. Demons are constantly being used to reference any and all monsters the characters fight, so the devils road is a description for how the demons’ function too. There's nothing poetic about the past and present being merged when they say this numerous times, Preponderance of Evidence points to this being true rather than false given the numerous statements in the novel.

that doesn’t really tell me anything, their magic twisted space and time and removed concepts, this by default scales to anyone capable of using magic.

What about it is iffy?

There's more than one demon the FF2 cast ran into, they both are capable of possessing others, and they describe it as demonic possession, Occam's Razor would point to them being capable of doing this normally.

No, this can overlap, abilities overlap from fiction to fiction all the time, it doesn't contradict anything here whatsoever.

He appears later on in the series despite you seeing literally every single Magicite erased from existence, and his appearance in the games are canonical. So he regenned from being erased.

He took every single Esper's magicite that left their realm, that would at bare minimum give him every single ability the main cast has.

No, this is the same gilgamesh you see across the series, the Ultimania confirms this being the same gilgamesh that appears in 6 given he shows up there and gets a weapon from the game.

 

[Eficiente]

Doesn't say that the past and future don't exist, but that they are all merged. Also what? What does it not directly saying "you're gonna die" have to do with it being directly stated to drain your life and soul?

I quoted text saying that they don't exist so don't say that. I didn't disagree with the draining.

When it's just the most general of magic, yes and that's how power systems work unless specified.

Then prove it's the most general of magic to the point where everyone should have the same.

It's the same spell but applied differently, several spells like Blizzard and Fire also do this.

Ok, and are we not gonna point out which application each game has or are we just gonna have it portrayed as if it was both at once?

He shows up again in other games, this isn't even the 1st instance of him being a summon

Prove that those are not other universes with their own version of him then. Magic was no more and the world f*cked at the end of 6, 7 it's its own world.

He drained a majority of them already in the facility. All the rest he got in Thamasa were the ones from the sealed gate, he quite literally got a large majority of all espers, only ones he didn't were already magicite and elsewhere like Odin.

He drained like a dozen or more in the facility, not a majority of them as a whole. It comes out of nowhere to claim he got a large majority of all espers.

Gilgamesh is an Esper in XII revenant wings as well and a Pseudo Guardian Force in VIII and references them as well. Being an Esper in VI doesn't mean he's not the same person.

FFXIII seems to clearly be another universe from VI as magic still exists, Espers still exists, and their lore is not the same. Saying that he regenerated is nonsensical.

@Eficiente no the statement literally mentions how they walk the path of the demon. Demons are constantly being used to reference any and all monsters the characters fight, so the devils road is a description for how the demons’ function too.

Ok to that then.

There's nothing poetic about the past and present being merged when they say this numerous times,

It isn't poetic, I pointed out myself that they were merged. It just doesn't give what you think it gives.

If I claim a million times that I can stop time and then when I do everything just stops aging and only clocks don't move then that's not gonna give people who age there Resistance to (your average) Time Stop.

that doesn’t really tell me anything, their magic twisted space and time and removed concepts, this by default scales to anyone capable of using magic.

Why?

What about it is iffy?

Sounds poetic. A regular human can create fire, that can be said to go against the natural order of things.

Again Law Manip is legit.

There's more than one demon the FF2 cast ran into, they both are capable of possessing others, and they describe it as demonic possession, Occam's Razor would point to them being capable of doing this normally

Ok then.

He appears later on in the series despite you seeing literally every single Magicite erased from existence, and his appearance in the games are canonical. So he regenned from being erased.

How do we know his appearance in the games are canonical as him being the same being? Because if he's not an Esper in other games then that already tells us that no, he's not the same being.

He took every single Esper's magicite that left their realm, that would at bare minimum give him every single ability the main cast has.

Don't they have it from magicites they find around the world, in other places & thus no the Espers Kefka got?

No, this is the same gilgamesh you see across the series, the Ultimania confirms this being the same gilgamesh that appears in 6 given he shows up there and gets a weapon from the game.

Can you show that from Ultimania?

 

[Shmooply]

Can you show that from Ultimania?

Gotchu.

Unless this is the wrong scan, then I am sorry for being a dummy.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Eficiente If the past, present, and future are merged as one, and the demons walk along that path as stated, it would grant them type 2 as that's the definition of type 2, lacking a past and a future, only being a singularity. You're not really doing a good job explaining yourself here.

I just explained it to you, magic in of itself did it, therefore anyone who uses magic scales, if that's hard to understand idk what to tell you.

Ultimanias and other appearances tells us otherwise.

These Espers all come from this realm, every single Esper ran out into Thamasa and Kefka kills them all and gains their magicites, slap on top of the fact the Empire has been stealing espers for research, it's not out of left field to assume he has access to the same types of Espers.

 

[HST_Master]

I quoted text saying that they don't exist so don't say that. I didn't disagree with the draining.

It's the concept of time that doesn't exist. The past present and future are stated to be merged in the road

Then prove it's the most general of magic to the point where everyone should have the same.

Because there's nothing special about what magic they used.

Ok, and are we not gonna point out which application each game has or are we just gonna have it portrayed as if it was both at once?

Either or, even VI and Type-0 does this with Kefka and Type-0 using multiple versions of the same spells.

Prove that those are not other universes with their own version of him then. Magic was no more and the world f*cked at the end of 6, 7 it's its own world.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/827611962015481888/844781428487225354/Screenshot_20210519-232622_YouTube.jpg

And what does 7 have to do with anything.

He drained like a dozen or more in the facility, not a majority of them as a whole. It comes out of nowhere to claim he got a large majority of all espers.

So you ignored the majority from the Sealed Cave? The only ones he didn't get were the ones Ramah gave the party and Odin, who died defending a castle.

FFXIII seems to clearly be another universe from VI as magic still exists, Espers still exists, and their lore is not the same. Saying that he regenerated is nonsensical.

I said XII not XIII, and he blatantly references that he's met Vaan and Squall in Mobius Final Fantasy, even though he's a Esper and a Guardian Force in the aforementioned 2, him being an Esper in VI does not mean that he isn't the same person.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/827611962015481888/844781429039956009/Screenshot_20210519-232636_YouTube.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/827611962015481888/844781429698592838/Screenshot_20210519-232640_YouTube.jpg

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, the revisions have been applied to the pages, now that it's all finished I shall close this thread.