FE thread 7: Eagles are black, Lions are Blue, Deers are Golden, which one are you?

[FDrybob]

Having freedom in choosing classes should open up a lot of room for using crazy and unorthodox builds for your characters, but the characters' growth rates and spell lists usually limit that potential. Hilda is one of the few characters in the game who learns Bolting, but her 25% magic growth means you'll never make her use magic unless you're purposefully trying to make the game harder. Same thing with Bernadetta who learns Thoron, Fimbulvetr, and Rescue, but has a 20% magic growth. You'll never make her a mage unless you need a rescue bot and you don't have Flayn or Constance.

 

[PaChi2]

There are three characters (iirc) that can use rescue:

1) Flayn.

2) Constance.

3) Bernadetta

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

With Canto, Warp, Stride and other movement options, I found that you don't need Rescue that much, plus Divine Pulse

 

[PaChi2]

I believe it's due to Nosferatu and Heal are the most basic of White Magic and are skills that should probably be open to everyone while Seraphim, Aura, Abraxas, etc are more high level and deserve more variation.

Funnily enough, nosferatu is high end magic/tome in some installents.

Dunno why they decided to make it low tier stuff in TH, tho.

I get it in echoes, since magic costs HP and stuff. But in TH it should have been A level magic imo (of course, it'd be muuuuch lighter and maybe 1-3).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well I did say that I wouldn't mind a "learn magic" mechanic. However, not everyone needs to be a powerful mage, just if you want to have those meme classes like Mage Caspar or something, you could do it..you probably shouldn't, but you could if you so wished.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Nosferatu from A rank in Geneaology to E rank in Three Houses. How the mighty have fallen

 

[FDrybob]

I believe it's due to Nosferatu and Heal are the most basic of White Magic and are skills that should probably be open to everyone while Seraphim, Aura, Abraxas, etc are more high level and deserve more variation.

But as a consequence of that, White Magic is never used as an offensive tool. I've never used Abraxas despite using Lysithea in multiple playthroughs. Just look at the learned spells here and click on the Faith tab: https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/characters/learned-spells/

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Well I did say that I wouldn't mind a "learn magic" mechanic. However, not everyone needs to be a powerful mage, just if you want to have those meme classes like Mage Caspar or something, you could do it..you probably shouldn't, but you could if you so wished.

War Monk Caspar

 

[PaChi2]

You should make Caspar a war monk if you want him to dodgetank, tho.

That +20 avoid is very good.

 

[FDrybob]

It would be good if you could see a preview into the spells each unit can learn, and if you could see each unit's growth rates, and how their classes affect those growth rates. You could put it out of the way so that experienced players can use it, but it won't overwhelm new players.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I believe it's due to Nosferatu and Heal are the most basic of White Magic and are skills that should probably be open to everyone while Seraphim, Aura, Abraxas, etc are more high level and deserve more variation.

But as a consequence of that, White Magic is never used as an offensive tool. Just look at the learned spells here and click on the Faith tab: https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/characters/learned-spells/

I mean, I actively use White Magic on all my mages regardless of their skills because I found Nosferatu as a good pick me up for many even if I didn't care for much else. I never found the need to give certain characters White Magic because I would have them do other things.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I actually unironcally go Dancer Caspar for the lolz. The other class I go for him is usually War Master.

 

[PaChi2]

I wouldnt have minded if spells were handled like "spell points" you earn with each rank.

Each spell would cost spell points to learn with varying costs depending on the character. What do you think?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That works.

 

[FDrybob]

The point is, magic would be a lot better if the game provided the player with any way to plan in advance what units they want to make into casters. All that freedom is pointless if the game doesn't give you the information you need to make informed decisions. How is the player supposed to know in advance that Mortal Savant is such a mediocre class without looking it up?

Don't get me wrong, it's still my favorite Fire Emblem game so far, but it certainly has its flaws.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

@Dragonmasterxyz Is it unironic if it's for the lolz?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mean, medicre or not, a player can still choose to use Mortal Savant if they so wish. Mediocre it maybe, if a player likes the animations or aesthetic they can still do so. Or they just might not care. If they do care, they can look it up. We are in the age of the internet after all.

 

[PaChi2]

The point is, magic would be a lot better if the game provided the player with any way to plan around what units they want to make into casters. All that freedom is pointless if the game doesn't give you the information you need to make informed decisions. How is the player supposed to know in advance that Mortal Savant is such a mediocre class without looking it up?

Don't get me wrong, it's still my favorite Fire Emblem game so far, but it certainly has its flaws.

I found Marianne to be the best mortal savant.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Tbh, Byleth makes an amazing War Monk. And Yuri can become quite OP as a Trickster given him having the highest evasion in the game. I know having excellent attack power + Critical hit + Vantage + Ranged Counter is even better. But it's funny how untouchable Yuri is on terrain.

Dark Fliers and Valkyries are OP as heck indeed.

 

[FDrybob]

Another problem with the freedom to be almost any class on any unit is that map design has to change to reflect this. Instead of the devs being able to anticipate what your team composition may be, they must plan for everything. I think this is part of the reason for why this game is on the easier side. Map design is already hard enough when you have to account for the player possibly having members of their team missing, but that gets even more complicated when those units can be in a variety of classes.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

You should make Caspar a war monk if you want him to dodgetank, tho.
That +20 avoid is very good.

He does have a good speed growth...

 

[PaChi2]

Im currently using Yuri as a Trickster and I feel a distinct lack of firepower '''except''' for his use of the Levin Sword. Im planning on giving him Marianne's sword. And a magic bow.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He's able to double with a Silver Sword or Killing Edge; and even if he doesn't oneshot everyone; he can still torture a bunch of Wyvern Riders to death.

 

[PaChi2]

He does have a good speed growth...

Sad that "45%" is considered good.

I mean, its good in TH. But TH growths are super average/low for the most part.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

No one in TH has absurdly high growths, but the 98 level ups more than makes up for that. They do got the highest caps however.

 

[PaChi2]

No one in TH has absurdly high growths, but the 98 level ups more than makes up for that. They do got the highest caps however.

About this. Did anybody ever feel that the statues that boost the caps are worth it? Like, you will never hit a cap except for very rare scenarios or if you bank all your resources in an overleveled unit.

On a side note, in TH everyone is forced to grow at least 2 stats per level. Though there is a new stat in charm so that is mitigated.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Class bonuses can make up for it. Felix and Petra have 60% speed by default plus 20 for Swordmaster/Assassin

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Honestly, I guess my mindset just doesn't mesh well with the more "experienced and hardcore" Fire Emblem fans, but if the maps are easier due to me having a variety of classes, then so being. I prefer freedom and being able to make my students whatever I want them to be with their growths in mind. Or even being able to go balls to the walls crazy.

I probably should just drop out of this conversation as honestly, I personally found how TH worked to be just fine and it was by far my most enjoyable Fire Emblem experience, especially in terms of mechanics which matched with how I play games overall.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, I did get my Lysithea to max out Luck and Resistance. Also, Yuri has a cap of 92 speed and 65% growth normally. 85% as a Trickster.

 

[PaChi2]

My only gripe with the map/chapter design is that I would have liked more variety in the winning conditions.

Edit: that's why Radiant Dawn is one of my favourite.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Three Houses is definitely my favorite and is the one game I'd pick as the only game to play for the rest of my life if I had to pick, but I also agree with Radiant Dawn being a highly underrated gem.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, Three Houses is just so much fun, easily my favorite in the games I have played

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I wish the Tellius games weren't so expensive

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

tbh, as long as the older games were remade with, and I know I will get hate for this but, a casual mode would make me willing to play literally any Fire Emblem game. Even if they lack TH mechanics. I am sadly, a filthy casual who is only willing to play casual mode. I did not enjoy my time with Shadow Dragon as to be honest, resetting after my characters died because of one small misstep really made me annoyed and not want to really finish it.

 

[FDrybob]

On a side note, in TH everyone is forced to grow at least 2 stats per level. Though there is a new stat in charm so that is mitigated.

That only applies to students. I'm pretty sure it's possible for faculty to have level ups without gaining any stats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Dragonmasterxyz is a pansy

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yeah, I know for a fact that it's possible to get 0 level ups with staff. That happened to me once with Manuela and I know NicoB got it with Shamir.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Casual mode is perfectly fine with me. It's great for beginners or people who just don't want a serious playthrough.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Dragonmasterxyz is a pansy

And proud of it

 

[PaChi2]

We should have a casual mode for non serious people.

And we should also have a scrub mode for Dragon.

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