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Fate/stay night: Tiering Update and Ability Additions

Dargoo_Faust

Dargoo_Faust

Blue Doggo Enthusiast
VS Battles
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Tiering:

I calced an attack from Luvia at 9-A; althogh both she and Rin were using reinforcement magic at the time. I'm pretty sure this scales to pretty much any magus comparable or superior to Rin/Luvia, which scales to god knows how many characters in Fate and probably other Nasuverse entries.

Abilities:

  • Illyasviel von Einzber/Irisviel von Einzber - Thread Manipulation for very obvious reasons, Her birbs have Energy Projection, As grails they absorb magical energy from fallen servants.
  • Kairi Sisigou - Missing a TON. See here for the quotes. Mind Manipulation, Air Manipulation, Healing, Homing Attack w/Finger Bullets, Resists Magic with his Jacket and through just being a mage, Can sense when someone breaks through a bounded field (Speaking of, he can make bounded fields), Corrosion Inducement w/heart grenades (Should also be Curse Manip since it's similar to Gandr), I'm pretty sure his Bounded Feild is either Forcefield Manip or Pocket Reality Manip.
  • Tokiomi Tohsaka - He taught Kirei Kotomine his magecraft and should be capable of using it perfectly. That means he's missing Summoning, Spiritual Healing/Evocation, Necromancy, Divination.
  • Zouken Matou - He should have Logia Intangibility as he's made of a colony of worms, Animal Manipulation (Crest Worms) for obvious reasons.
    • Note: He should have 9-B striking strength. The worms that make up his body can burrow into and nearly killed Shirou in Heaven's Feel,
 
Aren't Rin and Luvia noted to be quite the exceptional magi?

Rin IIRC is at least is stated to be far superior to her Father.
 
Everything looks pretty alright.

Also, Ever reminded me on Skype of this thing on Zouken being able to fight Servants in his prime and, if the situation is in his favor, be able to even win against them. IDK why I bothered to bring this up aside from Ever suggesting I should when I'd prefer grabbing the quote THEN post but whelp sadly I don't have it. There's a summary of it from this reddit post here about it and other HF stuff but no actual quote of it.

That aside, again everything looks good with the scans for Rin and definitely Kairi needing an update to his page.
 
Seems fine. Prime Zouken standing a chance against Servants makes some degree of sense.
 
Gravity Manip rather than density for Rin I'd say. The clairvoyance I feel is just her trying to use her mental connection to Archer to find where he is.

Ilya's potential is purely related to her magic circuits sheer quantity iirc, so yeah, changing her justification is good. She's not using threads though, she's using her hair.

Zouken's stuff is good

Not sure about Tokiomi's as at least some of Kirei's stuff comes from church teachings I think.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Ilya's potential is purely related to her magic circuits sheer quantity iirc, so yeah, changing her justification is good. She's not using threads though, she's using her hair.
Click to expand...
Hair Manipulation it is, then.
 
Good job Tohsaka.

"es ist gros, es ist klein" - Gravity/density manipulation spell

"It's big, it's small."

Heat Manipulation

Looks like the gandr is just hot, not that she has any particular ability to control heat.

Side note for Illya: "her potential far surpasses every other Master in the history of the Holy Grail War, such as Kayneth" is utterly false, at least through Word of God. It's explicitly stated Kayneth and Tokiome could best her in battle. So she's more on-par with them.

It's just said that she has the potential to be better than everyone else, not that she's better than everyone else.

Clairvoyance

She's mentally finding Archer through their link. Not that she can literally see the entire park.

The given aoe for this mental link is the park.
 
Seems fine though I don't agree with Clairvoyance and Heat Manipulation. She doesn't doesn't control the heat of the curse, it's a side effect of her putting in more magical energy into the Gandr Curse.

Rin and pretty much any master that can speak with servants/other people telepathically should get telepathy because it's a pretty common spell. Rin could possibly get creation due to her creating a replacement heart for Shirou to save him from Gae Bolg's curse.

Illya stuff is fine.

Kairi stuff is fine, poison manipulation with the hydra knife can also be added.

Tokiomi and Zouken stuff is fine. Adding a key for Zolgen (prime Zouken) is also fine.

@QB That Summary is from a trusted Moonrune reader at BL so it's likely accurate.

@Monarch Pretty sure Kirei was only taught how to use Scaraments and the Baptism Rite from the church, while the rest was taught to him by Tokiomi to prep for the Holy Grail War.
 
@Ram Gotc'ha.

And yeah I guess the point on Rin's Clairvoyance and Heat manip sounds pretty fair to not add.
 
Clairvoyance/Heat Manip is out, as is Tokiomi using all of Kirei's magecraft. We're changing Thread Manip to Hair Manip, and we're adding a key for prime Zouken.

I forgot to mention: Doesn't Illya have the Mystic Eyes of Binding (I think it's Paralysis Inducement) which she uses to bind Shirou in a bad ending?

Also, who else scales to Luvia's 9-A feat other than Rin?
 
Base Shirou (UBW and maybe HF) should probably scale to Luvia. Kirei, Kerry, Kuzuki, Bazett, pretty much everyone who scales to them like Kayneth, Ciel or other top mages.
 
I think Rin and a lot of masters should get telepathy as well.

I checked through vol 1 of Zero and Tokiomi using all of Kirei's magic is actually legit.

"Look, Tōsaka Tokiomi's report about Kirei given to the Association. The scope of training includes alchemy, spiritual evocation, summoning, divination... he is even more adept at healing magecraft than Tōsaka Tokiomi."

This is after they mentioned that Kirei went to study under Tokiomi for 3 years. So all the types of magic he knows was indeed taught to him by Tokiomi.
 
Alright, so it seems Tokiomi using Kirei's magic is still on the board.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Base Shirou (UBW and maybe HF) should probably scale to Luvia. Kirei, Kerry, Kuzuki, Bazett, pretty much everyone who scales to them like Kayneth, Ciel or other top mages.
Click to expand...
I'm not too sure of that, their fight was pretty one-sided with Kirei sending Shirou flying with single punches and only really getting hurt by the swords sprouting all over his body, IIRC Shirou himself said Kirei would've crushed his skull had he landed his final blow.
 
Well Medea took a full combo from a reinforced Rin and was still alive and well-ish. She was up and about in less than 30 secs without using healing magecraft and she is bottom of the barrel when it comes to being physically capable for a Servant.
 
This was in the church when Lancer decides to help them out. Her time reversal or whatever she used to heal from Caladbolg 2 wasn't used in the church afaik.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Like, aren't even the weakest servants supposed to be 10x stronger than the physically strongest human
Click to expand...
No. E rank has a value of 10 but saying that 1 = a human or the strongest human doesn't come from any source. Besides, humans are seriously strong in Nasuverse.
 
Its pretty scary just how strong Nasu humans can become without magic when you realise Kirei doesn't actually amp himself with magecraft for most of his appearances.
 
I was just talking about normal humans. Mystery = Power and you have to realize that a lot of Servants were just Age of the Gods normal humans that went on journeys and became heroes. Nero's 7-B and I doubt she ever did a push-up in her life.
 
I thought it was generally that the class containers made the servants weaker with exceptions being servants like Edmond where he's passively in the state of having his ultra fire.
 
On a random note, shouldn't we rename Endiku to False Lancer? His only other appearance is in FGO (Barring a cameo in FZero), unlike Gil who brings his smug face to every entry in the Fate Series.

I also plan on adding more pages for strange fake characters after I get caught up on that series.
 
Just name him Lancer (Enkidu) and have False Lancer as a redirect.

I don't think you can add any Strange Fake characters right now, because almost all of the remaining ones have unknown parameters, skills and nps. The only possible one would be Prelati.

Hippolyta is also possible but I'm working on her profile, though I can't finish it because she has a unknown secret NP and there is super limited information on how she uses Goddess of War.
 
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