Nasuverse CRT : additions to Gilgamesh and various Servants

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Sorry, was busy with things lately.

Law manip and resistance to enhanced senses/esp is fine.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Thanks for the input.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, thank you for helping out.

What Crimson accepted can probably be applied.

Is there anything else left to do here?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I need to apply everything that has been accepted first.

It seems this thread is not closing anytime soon.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Maxeez]

bump

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Why bump?

There's no need to bump here.

 

[Regidian]

TrueKing do you want help for the apply? Oh and same time why BB didn't get any of the INS hax ?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

TrueKing do you want help for the apply? Oh and same time why BB didn't get any of the INS hax ?

Yes, any help would be much appreciated.

Because the BB profile is already structured and must require fairly complex revisions to applies many of the new abilities, that's what Crimson said, and I'm not skilled so much at editing anything so complex, so I'm just waiting for someone who would generously applies INS abilities to BB profiles.

As a note that ShadowWhoWalks has drafted INS abilities for Kingprotea and Passionlip but not BB.

I'll probably make a crt about anyone who scales the INS abilities, which whould be including BB stuff, but not anytime soon.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody who is experienced with and/or knowledgeable regarding editing in our wiki willing to help out?

 

[God243]

I agree

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody who is experienced with and/or knowledgeable regarding editing in our wiki willing to help out?

Is somebody willing to write a list of all the members who have helped out in this thread please, so I can send a notification to them?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Is somebody willing to write a list of all the members who have helped out in this thread please, so I can send a notification to them?

I don't think it's really necessary.

Maybe Regidian would help to apply some stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

TrueKing do you want help for the apply? Oh and same time why BB didn't get any of the INS hax ?

Yes, any help would be much appreciated.

Because the BB profile is already structured and must require fairly complex revisions to applies many of the new abilities, that's what Crimson said, and I'm not skilled so much at editing anything so complex, so I'm just waiting for someone who would generously applies INS abilities to BB profiles.

As a note that ShadowWhoWalks has drafted INS abilities for Kingprotea and Passionlip but not BB.

I'll probably make a crt about anyone who scales the INS abilities, which whould be including BB stuff, but not anytime soon.

Is somebody who is experienced with and/or knowledgeable regarding editing in our wiki willing to help out?

@Regidian @ShadowWhoWalks

 

[Regidian]

I will help it this weekend.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I'll write down a list of things have been applied later.




Alright, this is the thing i have applied:

Gilgamesh stuff

Karna stuff

Illyasviel stuff

Beasts stuff

DK Nobunaga stuff

Achilles stuff

Goetia and Merlin stuff

Servant Physiology stuff except resistance to Void hax, Vector hax and Physics hax

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Regidian]

Just a thing, shouldn't resistance to plot manipulation be in servant physiology ? Robin hood tell that they could wreck the whole plot if they tried to not play cool even tho goetia should be able to freely control everything that happen in his story same for scheherazade plot manip.

And ability that melt and BB gained, should be added to kazuradrop tho, as she have their power

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Just a thing, shouldn't resistance to plot manipulation be in servant physiology ? Robin hood tell that they could wreck the whole plot if they tried to not play cool even tho goetia should be able to freely control everything that happen in his story same for scheherazade plot manip.

And ability that melt and BB gained, should be added to kazuradrop tho, as she have their power

For this one must be re-evaluated by the mods and a scan must also be provided.

Yes, these should also be added in her profile for obvious reasons. INS hax as well tho.

 

[Regidian]

For this one must be re-evaluated by the mods and a scan must also be provided.

Yes, these should also be added in their profile for obvious reasons. INS hax as well tho.

added it for bb and kazuradrop, rest only authority resistance and penth but penth doesn't have servant universe key so will need the crt with the creation of these key for the one who need it.

for the plot the scan is the same used for goetia plot manip https://media.discordapp.net/attach...563473/Screenshot_20200229-192905_Fate_GO.png

 

[Antvasima]

What currently needs to be evaluated here? Can somebody explain in a sufficiently thorough but easy to understand manner please?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Law Manipulation for Ten Crowns: Ten Crowns is an Authority and we all know that Authority is a law that governs the world

Still looks like just an application of power null rather than law manipulation.

Resistance to Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception for Servant Physiology (By entering Spirit Form, Servants cannot be detected and sensed even to other Servants)

That just cannot be correct - I'm pretty sure that idea is contradicted several times, like in OG F/SN, where Rin senses a Master but Archer doesn't sense a Servant, so they assume there is only a Master instead of Archer just shrugging and saying a Servant may just be dematerialized.

Pretty sure that's either an outlier, or just something Holmes can pull off.

Instinctive Reaction

Don't think your vehicle having autopilot warrants instinctive reaction.

Darius Ainsworth : High-Godly Regeneration

Whoa there, isn't the whole point of him that he put his soul into the Box of Pandora? That's just Low-Godly regeneration and type 8 immortality, with the enemy needing to reach into Pandora's Box and get his soul that way. Unless it was removed from there. But even then, they specifically mention a back up, which negates High-Godly. You can't have any physical remains to recover your concept from and call that High-Godly.

(She has an unusual causality

That's just Da Vinci saying she gets into trouble often... at most, if you take that statement at its most literal, probability manipulation for bad luck is all you'd get. But I would debate even that.

Information Analysist via Absorption (Servant could absorb Soul and Magical Energy as well as gaining information from their victim).

Is there proof of them doing this with someone who isn't their alternate timeline self? If not, I think this is just a Shirou-Archer interaction with one learning things the other knew.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Still looks like just an application of power null rather than law manipulation.

Law manipulation is a nature of Authority so it will be slightly different from Ten Crowns' abilities.

That just cannot be correct - I'm pretty sure that idea is contradicted several times, like in OG F/SN, where Rin senses a Master but Archer doesn't sense a Servant, so they assume there is only a Master instead of Archer just shrugging and saying a Servant may just be dematerialized.

Pretty sure that's either an outlier, or just something Holmes can pull off.

FGO is a newer work than F/SN, it has been retconned in FGO because the Spiritual Form is shown to be consistent in the work.

Don't think your vehicle having autopilot warrants instinctive reaction.

Well, it only happens when using the Vimana, Gilgamesh controls the Vimanas with his mind tho.

Whoa there, isn't the whole point of him that he put his soul into the Box of Pandora? That's just Low-Godly regeneration and type 8 immortality, with the enemy needing to reach into Pandora's Box and get his soul that way. Unless it was removed from there. But even then, they specifically mention a back up, which negates High-Godly. You can't have any physical remains to recover your concept from and call that High-Godly.

Body destruction has no effect on Darius, it was supported in his previous feat along with AE 2 hence he has a "possibly mid-godly regen" on his profile.

And with his recent feats, it was supported by the destruction of the concept and was able to regenerate his own concept, thus it can be concluded that his destruction encompasses both the existence and the concept.

Of course, Darius already has Immortality (Type 8) on his profile.

That's just Da Vinci saying she gets into trouble often... at most, if you take that statement at its most literal, probability manipulation for bad luck is all you'd get. But I would debate even that.

Mobile Singularity has been accepted on this wiki as type 4 Acausal, and Penth is one of them. I won't argue about this.

Is there proof of them doing this with someone who isn't their alternate timeline self? If not, I think this is just a Shirou-Archer interaction with one learning things the other knew.

It should be there, but all the scans I've have been deleted, because my gadget was reseted.

Anyway, all these things have been evaluated and accepted, just waiting to be applied.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Just a thing, shouldn't resistance to plot manipulation be in servant physiology ? Robin hood tell that they could wreck the whole plot if they tried to not play cool even tho goetia should be able to freely control everything that happen in his story same for scheherazade plot manip.

For the plot the scan is the same used for goetia plot manip https://media.discordapp.net/attach...563473/Screenshot_20200229-192905_Fate_GO.png

What currently needs to be evaluated here? Can somebody explain in a sufficiently thorough but easy to understand manner please?

Added resistance to Plot Manipulation for Servant Physiology.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

O is a newer work than F/SN, it has been retconned in FGO because the Spiritual Form is shown to be consistent in the work.

Consistent? I mean, if you have more times this happened, sure. But even in Apocrypha the assassin's got to deploy their presence concealment while dematerialized to keep hidden.

Body destruction has no effect on Darius, it was supported in his previous feat along with AE 2 hence he has a "possibly mid-godly regen" on his profile.

And with his recent feats, it was supported by the destruction of the concept and was able to regenerate his own concept, thus it can be concluded that his destruction encompasses both the existence and the concept.

Of course, Darius already has Immortality (Type 8) on his profile.

Again, isn't that because his soul is physically inside of Pandora? Unless they destroyed his soul in there, that's not high-godly at all. High godly is body, soul, and concept. Body and concept recovering from the soul is maybe mid-godly if even that.

Well, it only happens when using the Vimana, Gilgamesh controls the Vimanas with his mind tho.

But the dodging is a built-in function, ergo not Gilgamesh doing it. That's autopilot.

 

[Regidian]

Added resistance to Plot Manipulation for Servant Physiology.

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Ricsi-viragosi @CrimsonStarFallen @Vietthai96 @Moritzva

What do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/nasuverse-crt-additions-to-gilgamesh-and-various-servants.132730/post-4661831

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Again, isn't that because his soul is physically inside of Pandora? Unless they destroyed his soul in there, that's not high-godly at all. High godly is body, soul, and concept. Body and concept recovering from the soul is maybe mid-godly if even that.

I mean it's weird when a concept that underlies the existence has been erased but only got Mid-Godly, which in fact is the recent feat is clarifying the previous feat (type 2 AE)

But the dodging is a built-in function, ergo not Gilgamesh doing it. That's autopilot.

Good point, but Instinctive Reaction has been treated like autopilot tho, so I think it's better to change the sentence "Instinctive Reaction" with "Autopilot" which links to the Instinctive Reaction page.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ricsi-viragosi @CrimsonStarFallen @Vietthai96 @Moritzva

What do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/nasuverse-crt-additions-to-gilgamesh-and-various-servants.132730/post-4661831

@Ricsi-viragosi @CrimsonStarFallen @Vietthai96 @Moritzva

 

[Vietthai96]

Mind to explain why all Servant should gain Resistance to Plot Manipulation, i'm kinda confusing now

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean it's weird when a concept that underlies the existence has been erased but only got Mid-Godly, which in fact is the recent feat is clarifying the previous feat (type 2 AE)

Well, that doesn't counter what I said?

Was his soul erased too? If not, then that doesn't particularly matter. It's neat that he can regenerate his concept, but High Godly is exclusively if nothing is left.

Good point, but Instinctive Reaction has been treated like autopilot tho, so I think it's better to change the sentence "Instinctive Reaction" with "Autopilot" which links to the Instinctive Reaction page.

Yeah, that's pretty much splitting hairs. Just wanted to have it noted on the profile to not have people think "of he gets instinctive reflexion if he has this item".

Just a thing, shouldn't resistance to plot manipulation be in servant physiology ? Robin hood tell that they could wreck the whole plot if they tried to not play cool even tho goetia should be able to freely control everything that happen in his story same for scheherazade plot manip.

Dunno about that. Had my brain turned off for most of that Singularity, but I don't think Scheherazade's NP is able to govern fate to such an extent, even if boosted. Do you have any scans for that not being a limitation of her ability, rather than a resistance everybody has? Reality Marbles aren't absolute.

 

[John985]

Well, that doesn't counter what I said?

Was his soul erased too? If not, then that doesn't particularly matter. It's neat that he can regenerate his concept, but High Godly is exclusively if nothing is left.

Well, conceptual weapon, destroy concept, soul, and info. It was accepted on Global Hax revision.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Well, that doesn't counter what I said?

Was his soul erased too? If not, then that doesn't particularly matter. It's neat that he can regenerate his concept, but High Godly is exclusively if nothing is left.

can you send a scan that refers to his soul not being erased and stored in Pandora Box? because I forgot that part

I remember that his existence was destroyed by the Origin Bullet which is a Conceptual Weapon, which can destroy soul, concept, and info. need to know the concept in Nasuverse lies in the soul, so destroying the concept allows destroying the soul as well

Q: Conceptual Weapons are fixed magical items which execute a predetermined phenomenon. They're soul smashers ("outbreakers") that beat the opponent not physically but with the weight of the soul, but would it be possible to kill only the soul of a normal person, rather than something supernatural?

A: Yes, but the effect would be reduced. Or rather, against a mundane opponent, mere physical attacks would suffice. Physical interference is not possible against formless things, such as manifestations of laws or delusions. That's why Conceptual Weapons exist, because beings that exist via concepts can only be killed by concepts.

Dunno about that. Had my brain turned off for most of that Singularity, but I don't think Scheherazade's NP is able to govern fate to such an extent, even if boosted. Do you have any scans for that not being a limitation of her ability, rather than a resistance everybody has? Reality Marbles aren't absolute.

Sche's NP has been generally accepted as Plot Manipulation on this wiki, so the point is to be able to resist that ability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

can you send a scan that refers to his soul not being erased and stored in Pandora Box? because I forgot that part

I am asking for proof that it was, it's what allows him to be immortal to begin with? I mean, how do you think he regenerates? Stuff like that doesn't fall into the laps of modern magi in the Nasuvere.

And it's stated the concept of death (or something along those lines) doesn't apply to his soul, which is why it didn't rot unlike Zouken's. A conceptual weapon could very well fail upon that basis.

need to know the concept in Nasuverse lies in the soul, so destroying the concept allows destroying the soul as well

First, all of this is secondary. We are told that he had a backup that remade him. That automatically disqualifies him from High Godly. We are told the Origin Bullet affected only his main body, and so left the backup outside his body intact and functional.

Not all concepts come from souls. Souls contain concepts, stuff like lifespan, Origin, and such. But concepts exist outside of souls, too. Souless objects all have the concept of death (on earth), as the Shiki's show us. And ideas like "a shield blocking a javelin" are concepts that armaments clashing are going through.

And, not all conceptual weapons are made to crush the soul, no. They can, some are designed to, but not each and every one of them does. A conceptual weapon by default is just a weapon that forces "a phenomenon" to occur.

EMIYA's shroud just protects from the environment and the elements, it doesn't interact with souls at all. Gae Bolg would pierce the heart of a souless thing just fine, but it wouldn't do jack to a soul without a heart. Avalon simply creates a Bounded Field to grant absolute isolation. Blood Fort Andromeda didn't damage the soul of even mundane people in it. Zelretch is a sword that creates portals to other planes to let the user gather energy.

Most conceptual weapons don't interact with souls at all, though some can. You would need to prove that this one does. Then, you'd have to explain why the Conceptual Weapon would trump Pandora's Box, or even reach into it.

Sche's NP has been generally accepted as Plot Manipulation on this wiki, so the point is to be able to resist that ability.

...That is not an argument? You can't use a random, general power name put on a profile to why it should or shouldn't have limitations set in-universe. That's like saying that since x has mind manipulation, and y resists it due to willpower, y should get to resist mind manipulation instead of it being a weakness for x's mind manipulation.

Scheherazade's Noble Phantasm is a pocket dimension. Within it, she can bring her stories to life, and control said stories to her will, dictating the plot by which they act. That's neat, but you have to prove that her Noble Phantasm isn't the one not capable of dealing with other people from outside the pocket dimension wrecking the plot she sets up instead of claiming they just get a resistance to its power.


It's made very clear she can't just say "x happened" and have x happen. When she wanted to incite conflict, she couldn't just write "the nightless city and el dorado go to war", she summoned a bunch of people and tried to mastermind into fighting by altering their memory and age. Never mind Servants, she doesn't so much as attempt to control Ritsuka, either. And please don't argue with "well it's on her profile". We'll just put an asterix to her limitations with it on her profile.

 

[Regidian]

.

Scheherazade's Noble Phantasm is a pocket dimension. Within it, she can bring her stories to life, and control said stories to her will, dictating the plot by which they act. That's neat, but you have to prove that her Noble Phantasm isn't the one not capable of dealing with other people from outside the pocket dimension wrecking the plot she sets up instead of claiming they just get a resistance to its power.


It's made very clear she can't just say "x happened" and have x happen. When she wanted to incite conflict, she couldn't just write "the nightless city and el dorado go to war", she summoned a bunch of people and tried to mastermind into fighting by altering their memory and age. Never mind Servants, she doesn't so much as attempt to control Ritsuka, either. And please don't argue with "well it's on her profile". We'll just put an asterix to her limitations with it on her profile.

The feat came from Goetia not Scheherazade.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The feat came from Goetia not Scheherazade.

I was countering the Scheherazade one first since it's very, very clear for anybody who read her singularity that she couldn't just write whatever into reality.

Could you give me the part where Goetia does it? If not scans, just the general location I should go to to read.

 

[Regidian]

I was countering the Scheherazade one first since it's very, very clear for anybody who read her singularity that she couldn't just write whatever into reality.

Could you give me the part where Goetia does it? If not scans, just the general location I should go to to read.

The scan came from raum salem. I don't remember which part od the story tho

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'll go through it (tomorrow), but even that Singularity clearly didn't come with hard fate manipulation, instead mostly using the characters created to get desired outcomes.