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Sub Relativistic to FTL Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night and Fate/GO CRT

RanaProGamer

RanaProGamer

3,446
1,598
I apologize if any of these have been presented before. But without further ado. Let's go.

Fate/Zero: (Edit: Due to Excalibur not meeting the requirement for light speed standards, it was removed, everything else, however, stays)
During their battle, Saber and Lancer, in the Fate/Zero Visual Novel were stated as fighting at near light speed.


Fate/Stay Night:
During Saber Alter vs Rider, Rider was stated as being able to dash at light speed: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402261704441866/ACwqu74.png

Which Saber Alter was able to react to casually: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552402288728342538/AmrQtT5.png

Light speed attacks are again stated when Saber Alter attacks Shirou: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551346778021298186/552397947296415755/y06Z1gt.png

And even cases of thought processes surpassing light speed by Emiya: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/587131738980089916/588956717799178242/unknown.png


Fate/Grand Order:
The Avenger Of Shinjuku is able to react to a trap, which Da Vinci said would require few microseconds to react to. It then reacts to the second trap much faster than the first trap a stated by Mash.


Conclusion:
Fate/Zero Saber's fight with Diarmuid reached near light speed. This can go from Sub Relativistic to Relativistic+ depending on where we assume 'near light speed' to be.

Sakura Servant Rider is stated as being able to dash at light speed and even keep up with Saber Alter who was not only able to dodge her attacks but even has light speed statements of her own. Meaning we have Relativistic+ to possibly FTL speed.

Emiya Archer is stated to be able to process events that surpass light speed, yet was getting overwhelmed by Lancer in their fight. So again, Relativistic+ to FTL speed.

The Avenger Of Shinjuku can react to traps in few microseconds casually and even reacted to the second trap faster than before, depending on how we assume 'few' this can reach Sub Relativistic.

Due to multiple instances of Sub Rel to FTL feats, it is only right to conclude that these speeds are consistent within the story as opposed to the only 2 instances of the calcs reaching MHS speed.

The issue with MHS calc: The highest calced MHS speed comes from Hansa, who declares himself as a fodder magi compared to the top tier magi. With the servants being massively above even the top tier magi.

Which all servants scale?

Saber and Saber Alter, Cu Chulainn, Diarmuid Ua Duibhne, Archer, Gilgamesh and Child Gil, Medea, Gilles, Shinji and Sakura Servant Medusa, Iskandar, Sasaki Kojiro, True Assassin, Hundred Face Hassan, Hercules, Lancelot and Avenger.

Which all masters and humans scale?

Shirou, Rin Tohsaka, Sakura Matou, Illyasviel, Kuzuki, Kotomine Kirei, possibly Matou, possibly Bazzet Fraga, possibly Leysritt, Luvia Edelfelt, Kiritsugu, possibly Tokiomi Tohsaka, Kayneth El Melloi.

What about FGO servants?

Only those with similar ranks, confirmed fights and confirmed statements of scaling above these servants in the game should scale to these speeds.

So what do you think?
 
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Review the light dodging standards; a magical attack being made from light is not the same as the attack being light-speed. So this would be the weakest argument in the post.

The rest will likely get dismissed as hyperboles, unless you demonstrate overall consistency in the verse (such as why normal Servants would consider the speed of lightning to be high, or a reaction time of a few microseconds to be impressive).

I am not saying that there is no evidence that normal Servants are FTL/relativistic; you can do some FGO scaling, or imo the best evidence for it coming from the Babylonia anime:



But the speed scaling we choose should be the most consistent, which is not demonstrated here.
 
Santa karna is to described to have his fist exceed the speed of light if that help and it's not via NP


Flashing Fists: A
This Karna does not carry a spear, he only has his fists. But, that doesn't mean there is a decrease in his combat power. For he was trained by Drona, an expert in all aspects of martial arts, so he is accustomed to fighting with empty hands.
In fact, when he recalls the past when he was studying martial arts along with Arjuna and Ashvatthaman, it gives him a fresh sensation that makes his body lighter than it was when he was burdened with the weight of his spear.
The maximum speed of the punches he deliver exceeds the speed of light.
 
Yeah....there are statement about light speed or FTL in GO but not this one.
 
Last edited:
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Review the light dodging standards; a magical attack being made from light is not the same as the attack being light-speed. So this would be the weakest argument in the post.

The rest will likely get dismissed as hyperboles, unless you demonstrate overall consistency in the verse (such as why normal Servants would consider the speed of lightning to be high, or a reaction time of a few microseconds to be impressive).

I am not saying that there is no evidence that normal Servants are FTL/relativistic; you can do some FGO scaling, or imo the best evidence for it coming from the Babylonia anime:



But the speed scaling we choose should be the most consistent, which is not demonstrated here.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late, I've been a bit busy.

So I went over the Light Dodging Standards and I agree that Excalibur isn't a good argument. But why do I need to prove that characters need to scale above lower speeds to prove that they are relative or above light speed? Especially since the Fate/Zero novel and FSN Visual Novel confirms light speed reaction and combat 3 times? And one of the calcs for MHS itself confirms that feat was done by Hansa who is literal fodder compared to even the top tier magi, and the servant scale vastly above the top tier magi. Even the whole Irisviel calc comes from the assumption that just cuz that she wasn't able to perceive Saber and Lancer, that it should be their limit when we have no reason to assume such if the speed has been stated.
 
RanaProGamer said:
Sorry for the late, I've been a bit busy.

So I went over the Light Dodging Standards and I agree that Excalibur isn't a good argument. But why do I need to prove that characters need to scale above lower speeds to prove that they are relative or above light speed? Especially since the Fate/Zero novel and FSN Visual Novel confirms light speed reaction and combat 3 times? And one of the calcs for MHS itself confirms that feat was done by Hansa who is literal fodder compared to even the top tier magi, and the servant scale vastly above the top tier magi. Even the whole Irisviel calc comes from the assumption that just cuz that she wasn't able to perceive Saber and Lancer, that it should be their limit when we have no reason to assume such if the speed has been stated.
Click to expand...

The biggest thing against this is the FGO mobile game, where it's explained Servants can't go lightspeed because their bodies can't handle it, unless they use NP that specifically boost their speed to that of light.

When they do they are much faster than other servants, even tho the others still should get relativist speed for reacting against them if they know where they are going to attack.
 
Hasch said:
The biggest thing against this is the FGO mobile game, where it's explained Servants can't go lightspeed because their bodies can't handle it, unless they use NP that specifically boost their speed to that of light.

When they do they are much faster than other servants, even tho the others still should get relativist speed for reacting against them if they know where they are going to attack.
Click to expand...
Well actually santa karna have partially retcon this since he can do it without NP (but well his agility is EX so)
 
Not that I've read the novel or anything, but I've heard there'r numerous instances where they literally have to hide from bullets instead of dodging them or something to that effect.
 
JohnHendrix212 said:
Not that I've read the novel or anything, but I've heard there'r numerous instances where they literally have to hide from bullets instead of dodging them or something to that effect.
Click to expand...
Except if that magic bullet it litteraly impossible as bullet do nothing to them because no mystery
 
JohnHendrix212 said:
Not that I've read the novel or anything, but I've heard there'r numerous instances where they literally have to hide from bullets instead of dodging them or something to that effect.
Click to expand...

Servants in general have become stronger in new works, but they had always been portrayed as easily supersonic from the start. The only instance of bullets being dangerous to a servant would be when Lancelot hijacked a fighter jet and amped all of it's capabilities including the bullets.
 
Hasch said:
Servants in general have become stronger in new works, but they had always been portrayed as easily supersonic from the start. The only instance of bullets being dangerous to a servant would be when Lancelot hijacked a fighter jet and amped all of it's capabilities including the bullets.
Click to expand...
Right, that is his Noble Phantasm. Like whatever he touches becomes his NP.
 
Hasch said:
The biggest thing against this is the FGO mobile game, where it's explained Servants can't go lightspeed because their bodies can't handle it, unless they use NP that specifically boost their speed to that of light.

When they do they are much faster than other servants, even tho the others still should get relativist speed for reacting against them if they know where they are going to attack.
Click to expand...
Are you saying FGO retcons the main Fate continuity?
 
Also. Isn't it stated during Arturia's fight with Diarmuid they reach close to the Speed of Light after surpassing Sound?

I do have that scan but I have no idea how do you post stuff on this site with a phone.
 
I do resurect this thread because it's quite important.


Hasch said:
The biggest thing against this is the FGO mobile game, where it's explained Servants can't go lightspeed because their bodies can't handle it, unless they use NP that specifically boost their speed to that of light.

When they do they are much faster than other servants, even tho the others still should get relativist speed for reacting against them if they know where they are going to attack.
Click to expand...
Here it's tell that servant lower than A/A+ in agility can't go to lightspeed Not that all servant can't go to it. Which don't disapprove Rider being able to go lightspeed when she boost herself/karna going above lightspeed, nor disaprove people being able to react and fight them, we have saber alter being able to react to this rider, vritra, ash, arjuna being able to react santa karna (which is just notmal karna using is fist), and musashi and mash reacting to dioscuri NP.
ShadowWhoWalks said:
The rest will likely get dismissed as hyperboles, unless you demonstrate overall consistency in the verse (such as why normal Servants would consider the speed of lightning to be high, or a reaction time of a few microseconds to be impressive).
Click to expand...
Don't recall servant calling the speed of lightning high.

And they don't find a reaction time of few microseconds to be impressed but they find that Avenger of shinjuku doing it with his enorme body to be impressive.


We have too other feat of relativist servant/reaction, the jet-pack of okita J allow her to go at sub-light speed and yet servant can still fight her.

"Lightless Light that Sparkles at Daybreak: Blue Sky, Three-Stage Thrust
A miraculous blow caused by over-boosting the jet-pack's internal super engine, MAKOTO Drive.

The three-stage thrust is unleashed at sub-light speed level by means of transcending jet acceleration to exceed physical limitations to cause an event saturation in the local space."



Or here a arrow shooted by Archer heracles in fate strange fake who was more quick than the speed at which electricity transmitted trough air, was knocked out by gilgamesh eaisly


But the second shot had already been fired.
The bolts of lightning from the autodefensor activated and went to intercept the incoming arrow, but while several bolts had struck it, the arrow managed to slip through the firing interval and came for Gilgamesh. The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow. But the speed of the arrow went beyond the limits of humanity. Gilgamesh instantly manifested his armor and knocked the arrow away with his left gauntlet.
 
Last edited:
LordGinSama said:
I'll explain in detail later, trust me. I'll make a thread first of all since bringing up a dead one isn't wise after I get my current ones done.
Click to expand...
I bringing this dead thread because he have some of the feat i wanted to use, and just don't wanted to create another just to add some other.


And how you want mento trust when you know to not like fate and call everything wank everytime i see you talking lol and where here i litteraly show the feat
 
Last edited:
Regidian said:
Don't recall servant calling the speed of lightning high.
Click to expand...
The strange/Fake arrow scene. Gilgamesh consider lightning attacks to be fast-enough for defense, and Alcides was firing a faster version of his previous shot.
Richard I's top-tier speed being stated to be approaching lightning speed.

Regidian said:
And they don't find a reaction time of few microseconds to be impressed but they find that Avenger of shinjuku doing it with his enorme body to be impressive.
Click to expand...
His reaction speed is also praised.
Altria Alter:
Did it work!?
Damn, he jumped right over it!

Da Vinci:
Ugh. I know we expected as much, but I still can't believe it!
He's so huge, and he couldn't even have noticed it right up until the last moment! Even our camouflage spell was perfect!
It couldn't have taken more than a few microseconds to react. And he didn't even break his stride!

Altria Alter:
Stop praising him and focus on the task at hand!

Da Vinci:
Oh, right! Activating next trap in three, two, one...!

Moriarty:
Second trap, activated! Not that I expected it will work any better!

Mash:
He's evaded this one as well. He reacted even faster than the first time!

Regidian said:
We have too other feat of relativist servant/reaction, the jet-pack of okita J allow her to go at sub-light speed and yet servant can still fight her.

"Lightless Light that Sparkles at Daybreak: Blue Sky, Three-Stage Thrust
A miraculous blow caused by over-boosting the jet-pack's internal super engine, MAKOTO Drive.

The three-stage thrust is unleashed at sub-light speed level by means of transcending jet acceleration to exceed physical limitations to cause an event saturation in the local space."
Click to expand...
MHX has a MFTL+ feat with her Noble Phantasm.
You need to demonstrate that Servant Universe characters scale to the average Servant. Voyager's Noble Phantasm suggests he is MFTL+ due to travelling 6 billion kilometers in a handful of seconds, but this is not proven to scale to the average Servant.
VoyagerNP.gif
VoyagerNP2.gif

  • Voyager of the Stars (Rank A): A limited version of Pioneer of the Stars. A Skill that makes the impossible possible, allowing for planet-to-planet voyaging.
  • Swingby (Rank A): A Skill showcasing special maneuvering abilities in combat. Able to take away an enemy's kinetic energy or even apply kinetic energy to them, this skill allows him to surpass his limits of acceleration and deceleration. He is able to fly freely using this Skill.

The Pale Blue Dot.
A small blue light that was taken by Voyager from 6 billion kilometers away as he looked back on where he had once come from. Within that small dot the size of only 0.12 pixels lives the thoughts and feelings towards the future which the people who created and sent him off on his endless journey held within their hearts. With his golden sail taking in the warm breeze, he heads forth.

Santa Karna is casually FTL, but he is not proven to scale to the average Servant.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
The strange/Fake arrow scene. Gilgamesh consider lightning attacks to be fast-enough for defense, and Alcides was firing a faster version of his previous shot.
Richard I's top-tier speed being stated to be approaching lightning speed.


His reaction speed is also praised.
Altria Alter:
Did it work!?
Damn, he jumped right over it!

Da Vinci:
Ugh. I know we expected as much, but I still can't believe it!
He's so huge, and he couldn't even have noticed it right up until the last moment! Even our camouflage spell was perfect!
It couldn't have taken more than a few microseconds to react. And he didn't even break his stride!

Altria Alter:
Stop praising him and focus on the task at hand!

Da Vinci:
Oh, right! Activating next trap in three, two, one...!

Moriarty:
Second trap, activated! Not that I expected it will work any better!

Mash:
He's evaded this one as well. He reacted even faster than the first time!


MHX has a MFTL+ feat with her Noble Phantasm.
You need to demonstrate that Servant Universe characters scale to the average Servant.
Click to expand...

I talked about okita J not servant universe.

Pre sword saint hokusai was able to react to her.

Same with the melt going lightspeed with her boost and passionlip technique, even tho emiya alter can't keep up in speed with her he was able to react to her.

For avenger the praise was still in consideration of his size, moriaty himself just stated after that he already know that the second trap will not work by ex, they was just in first surprised that he could do that (+ he have fight with salter if i remember and she had 0 problem with his speed)

For santa karna we have Vritra and Ash fighting him directly.

For the gilgamesh yes he stated it's fast-enough for defense but doesn't mea' he was impressed i litteraly showed the feat when he have a better speed feat than his own lightings defense


"But the second shot had already been fired.
The bolts of lightning from the autodefensor activated and went to intercept the incoming arrow, but while several bolts had struck it, the arrow managed to slip through the firing interval and came for Gilgamesh. The speed at which electricity transmitted through the air, the speed of lighting in other words, is slower than light, but it should have been fast enough to catch a normal arrow. But the speed of the arrow went beyond the limits of humanity. Gilgamesh instantly manifested his armor and knocked the arrow away with his left gauntlet."


I don't recall Richard statement so can't help for that
 
Okita J is a Servant Universe character; look at her profile:
Allow me to explain! With her long-awaited swimsuit dreams finally coming true, Okita was excitedly running through the hallways when she accidentally collides galaxies with Heroine XX. Poor Ms. Okita then died...(but not really).

Oh no! An accident with an indigenous local...and even death!? This is definitely going to affect my approval for a bonus!!! In a panic, Ms. XX hastily built a life support device (really a jetpack) using parts she had on-hand, and as a result, a mysterious Shinsengumi girl was born. But in actuality, Okita was just unconscious, and inadvertently had the Servant Universe's mysterious technology installed to be reborn as a futuristic Shinsengumi warrior, all because XX goofed up.

Thanks to the life support device, her Weak Constitution skill was removed for a limited time, and as the device theoretically runs for over eight hundred years it enables her to have a super healthy body. However, Okita erroneously believed she had only three days left to live.

The sight of her running freely under the bright blue sky is, to a girl who was welcomed by the soft warm sun to disappear within the tumultuous age in which she lived, but a precious summer dream.

Of course, the turmoil and rift in space and time XX caused is only an enchantment that lasts but the duration of summer, and everything goes back to normal as soon as summer ends. Hey, that's good news, Okita.

Also, her Noble Phantasm is what is stated to be sub-relativistic; this does not mean that her normal attacks are such.

If Melt needs to a combination Noble Phantasm where she gets compressed by Trash & Crush to exceed the speed of light, then she can't do it casually.

Ashwatthama and Santa Karna were explicitly punching each other's palms as a competition in multiple scenes; so it is a context of strength rather than speed. Later there is a mention of sparring, but it could refer to the palm punching. Vritra can conceptually 'block' things, and Santa Karna said that his punches has no effect on her.

Richard has a couple of statements suggesting his top speed is close to lightning:
Godspeed (Rank A): The technical skills engraved in his Saint Graph from the extent of his marches and from his almost lightning speed on the battlefield. The longer the battle continues, the more his Agility stat increases.
There is an expression, “lightning quick.”
It is normally intended metaphorically, but the scene that burned itself into Ayaka’s eyes in that instant was so intense that it really did remind her of flashes of lightning.
Innumerable weapons, born from the Earth, launched themselves into the air. Threading his way through all of them, Saber closed in on the long-haired Heroic Spirit and unleashed a sharp right hook.
His opponent quickly dodged back, but Saber stepped in to match him and threw out a slanting left uppercut.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Okita J is a Servant Universe character; look at her profile:
Allow me to explain! With her long-awaited swimsuit dreams finally coming true, Okita was excitedly running through the hallways when she accidentally collides galaxies with Heroine XX. Poor Ms. Okita then died...(but not really).

Oh no! An accident with an indigenous local...and even death!? This is definitely going to affect my approval for a bonus!!! In a panic, Ms. XX hastily built a life support device (really a jetpack) using parts she had on-hand, and as a result, a mysterious Shinsengumi girl was born. But in actuality, Okita was just unconscious, and inadvertently had the Servant Universe's mysterious technology installed to be reborn as a futuristic Shinsengumi warrior, all because XX goofed up.

Thanks to the life support device, her Weak Constitution skill was removed for a limited time, and as the device theoretically runs for over eight hundred years it enables her to have a super healthy body. However, Okita erroneously believed she had only three days left to live.

The sight of her running freely under the bright blue sky is, to a girl who was welcomed by the soft warm sun to disappear within the tumultuous age in which she lived, but a precious summer dream.

Of course, the turmoil and rift in space and time XX caused is only an enchantment that lasts but the duration of summer, and everything goes back to normal as soon as summer ends. Hey, that's good news, Okita.

Also, her Noble Phantasm is what is stated to be sub-relativistic; this does not mean that her normal attacks are such.

If Melt needs to a combination Noble Phantasm where she gets compressed by Trash & Crush to exceed the speed of light, then she can't do it casually.

Ashwatthama and Santa Karna were explicitly punching each other's palms as a competition in multiple scenes; so it is a context of strength rather than speed. Later there is a mention of sparring, but it could refer to the palm punching. Vritra can conceptually 'block' things, and Santa Karna said that his punches has no effect on her.

Richard has a couple of statements suggesting his top speed is close to lightning:
Godspeed (Rank A): The technical skills engraved in his Saint Graph from the extent of his marches and from his almost lightning speed on the battlefield. The longer the battle continues, the more his Agility stat increases.
There is an expression, “lightning quick.”
It is normally intended metaphorically, but the scene that burned itself into Ayaka’s eyes in that instant was so intense that it really did remind her of flashes of lightning.
Innumerable weapons, born from the Earth, launched themselves into the air. Threading his way through all of them, Saber closed in on the long-haired Heroic Spirit and unleashed a sharp right hook.
His opponent quickly dodged back, but Saber stepped in to match him and threw out a slanting left uppercut.
Click to expand...
Okita is not a servant universe character it's just the jet pack. (Sub-light speed it's rela+ and i tell servant to be rela)

I don't have tell she is casual with it, i tell hokusai pre sword saint was able to fight with her when she was using her NP.

Same for Melt never tell she do it casually(i doesn't even mention her being ls/ftl normaly, but that emiya alter was able to react to her when she was doing this.


Richard doesn't have any top-speed the whole godspeed meaning is him always more quick. Even in your thing 0 mention of top speed.

The lighting thing is like just tell to be metaphorical directly

And that ayaka scene remind her lighting not meaning that his speed was comparable to it
 
Isn't there a scan where Sherlock says Servants can't go past the Speed of light because their bodies can't handle it unless their Noble Phantasm allows them to circumvent that??. If so I think FTL won't be accepted here

Aside from that I agree that Servants being MHS is a serious Lowball and that they should upscale massively from the Hansa calc
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Isn't there a scan where Sherlock says Servants can't go past the Speed of light because their bodies can't handle it unless their Noble Phantasm allows them to circumvent that??. If so I think FTL won't be accepted here

Aside from that I agree that Servants being MHS is a serious Lowball and that they should upscale massively from the Hansa calc
Click to expand...
It's not sherlock but BB and it's only for servant below A agility.
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Isn't there a scan where Sherlock says Servants can't go past the Speed of light because their bodies can't handle it unless their Noble Phantasm allows them to circumvent that??. If so I think FTL won't be accepted here

Aside from that I agree that Servants being MHS is a serious Lowball and that they should upscale massively from the Hansa calc
Click to expand...
From the sound of it, they can go light-speed but going past it damages them, in that case, they should b able to go Sub Rel to Rel+. Especially since most of my scans are Sub Rel to Rel+ combat speed and FTL reaction speed.
 
Last edited:
RanaProGamer said:
From the sound of it, they can go light-speed but going past it damages them, in that case, they should b able to go Sub Rel to Rel+. Especially since most of my scans are Sub Rel to Rel+ combat speed and FTL reaction speed.
Click to expand...
If this is the case most of the scans in this thread look okay to me, however I think you'll need to do a big scaling revision like they did with Noble Phantasm ranks and how that relates to AP

So I don't know tag a staff member or some other Fate knowledgeables and have them check this out
 
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