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Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya Revision

Qliphoth_Bacikal

Qliphoth_Bacikal

6,062
3,085
Hey everyone. Today I'm here to make a revision for a specific part of the Fate series verse. This being the Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya series, which is an alternate world where the 4th and 5th Holy Grail Wars never occurred due to that worlds Kiritsugu Emiya and Irisviel dismantling the Grail War system and such before moving to Japan and have Illya live a normal life (basically if Kiri and Iri never died and Illya never ends up being arrogant and raised wrongly after what happened Post Fate/Zero and onto FSN to those that follow at least those Fate parts of the verse). Some things here and there happened before Illya became a magi girl to get some Servant cards back and all...before getting into even more shit including going over to a parallel world.

(Coughs)

But I'm not here to explain about the premise of the verses story as those who go to the link above can get the gist of it for themselves. What I want to talk about is this Fate series profiles here and just...how outdated and empty it is and such.

Apparently, I've been noted by a couple peeps I talk to on Skype on these profiles and at one of them has pointed out their pages and how outdated it is. Going on to looking at many other profiles of Fate and their general scaling sans the more powerful ones (like BB or the Beasts or Ama, you name it) and rather ridiculous stuff like "7-C Magic Spam" or "Sword Spam" whatever, this seems very clear to me that no one, especially those that are into Fate and know it, has never gotten the time to work on them and/or have much knowledge to work with these guys at all.

Which is what I am actually here for. Granted I only have read the manga series as I assume it was made first before the anime and thus going at what I think is the right about way of doing things for this.

I'm not sure how much this opening post will make but there are clearly a lot of changes I want to do with these guys. Starting with the ones that DO have profiles here, most predominantly Illya and Chloe.

Most evident so far that I see is they need to have general scaling done for them as the first Prisma Manga/Anime alone has them fight against Corrupted Servants and from what I've found and been told, corrupted Servants weaker than their normal counterparts (having a deduction to their stats by about 1 or 2 ranks) and fighting more like a Berserker and without reason or will. Illya also needs to have image changes done to her cuz whoever did the images for her before did not clearly try to match up with a couple of ones either from the anime or manga (if any of you were to look at Illyasviel von Einzbern (Fate/Kaleid) here, you will see exactly what I mean here). Other stuff include things like maybe shortening their Summary's and or rewrite them, fleshing out their intellect (seriously, there's a lot missing on Illya's page that its even saddening cuz she's shown a lot of what she can do in combat. And even as a 10, currently 11 yr old gurl at that even!). Attacks/Techniques also need to be fleshed out and/or changed cuz that's too little in my eyes.

I know I may just be talking about Illya and its kind of understandable since I find her to have the most problems with outta the ones that are present (though they have varying things needs to fleshed out and or changed) and I STILL have a lot more to speak about but, for the most part:

TL;DR version: They are outdated AF and needs to be cleaned up.
 
the servants may be weaker, but they are still stong. I will contact a user I know who is familiar with this part of the fate series. I am familiar in so far as the basic outline of the events, and a few specifc characters
 
@Lap: That's what I was trying to say, yes. Though the corrupted Servants ARE INDEED weaker than their OG versions (or normal versions), they should still be as strong as the other average Servants in stats. As in, At least City+ and MHS. And these are people Illya and co. can fight off.

Do note that this is just one of many problems that I want to help out in fixing cuz the pages rn are just, excuse me, SHIT.
 
@Lap: I have a doc on hand that I made for both profiles present that needs revisions and those for characters that have yet to be added.

Ones that need it are Angelica, Beatrice, Julian, Darius (questionable cuz he's also possessing Julian as of current still), Zerker Card Sakura and perhaps Assassin Card Shinji. Tanaka is also considered but becuz she hasn't shown a lot, I'd personally wait until the manga fleshes out more of her before doing anything at all with her.
 
Hmm just to make a list of those that are currently here for revisions:

All (or almost all 'cept KoGil maybe and Miyu! Shirou)
-All base stats should be like City+ (or at least City+, whatever) and MHS for AP and Speed. -Summaries need to updated/changed/rewritten whatever as said. -Main images for some needs to be changed to either those of the anime or manga -Add more scans/gifs (if necessary) -Images for profiles

Illya
-Replace all images to that of ones from the anime or manga, which is better and from the actual series. -Update Intellect -Update Attacks/Techniques section with things like Include and Install and adding in her Zwei form -Make summary shorter and more straight to the point -

Chloe/Kuro
-Change image to that of her original series -(Maybe) Shorten summary -Update Attack/Techinques section -Update Intellect -

Bazett
-Add + to City level so it becomes City level+ to match things up

KoGil/Child Gil
-Making a note of how active he is with his NP's than what his normal incarnation does with them (If that's already done, disregard this) -Maybe note that the Ea/Enuma Elish is weaker than what his adult self's version can do due to being only half-incarnated (again like the above, disregard this if its already noted) -Otherwise, KoGil seems just fine other than maybe fleshing it out more.

Miyuverse! Shirou
-Flesh out more of the things he can project with UBW -Add note how he can't cast UBW anymore due to his connection with Miyu being lost -Update stamina (maybe) -Change main img to either that of manga or anime
 
With the last few chapters of 3rei!, I don't know if the top tiers will still be 7-B, I can see them pushing High 7-A for specific techs/NPs.
 
@AnonBlank: Isn't that already done with many Servants and others though? Cuz that's pretty much what's gonna be done for those like Illya with Card Installs to Beatrice with Mjolnir.
 
With all the blackened Servants having suffered rank downs on their stats/NPs, installs follow suit (excpet Miyu!Shirou with that Archer card). Mjolnir is shown to be far above everything else so far along with Gorgon's install. From what I can see, as of now only the Berserkers will be 7-A or close to their unblackened counterparts.
 
Blackened Servants rank downs, already noted. Installs, is that due to how only a fraction of the Heroic Spirits power is given for the user to use their power? If so, that can be considered.

About Mjolnir being so far above everything else in physical stats, it is. Even Hercs Class Card power wasn't much and had to have Illya use Rider on top to use Gorgon's power.

For what I and a friend on Skype have discussed, that would make Beatrice 7-A or even at least 7-A seeing as it takes someone like Gorgon's power to even match up to the former. That's about as far as I know will happen at least when she gets made here.

My only concerns now atm is to update the profiles that are currently present here on this Wikia.
 
I don't really have time to pitch in right now (midterms and papers), but yeah, I agree that the profiles need a ton of work.
 
Installs basically give them the power of the blackened Servants. Any drop in combat ability with an install is due to the wielder knowing jack about fighting with that power set.

Magni was superior to Gorgon even without Mjolnir. Herc's card was actually stated to be equal to Magni in strength, slightly weaker by feats. Note this was Base Magni vs ME Illya. Even Gorgon was barely matching up to ME Magni (also poisoned) and could only deflect stronger attacks. About the scaling, Thunder charged Mjolnir doubles the AP and Natural Body and the A+~A++ MS amps it even further. Screw the NPs, this card seriously has a lot of AP amping shit when you look at it.

Which profiles were you looking at? I have too much time on my hands rn.
 
Am I to presume that was from those like the peeps who had those Cards that Miyu! Shirou fought in his world? I somewhat recall Shirou retelling his story about it and how that might have been the case compared to his Install but I have to reread the chapter about it.

Magni being superior, I can get that then. Illya at times with Gorgon's power WAS able to evenly trade blows but other times ofc were Beatrice with Magni Install just going ZERK out and such.

What I'm looking at are obviously the profiles that are on here and made already: Illya, Chloe/Kuro, Bazett (maybe), KoGil (but he might not need much work done to him), and Miyu! Shirou.
 
Fair enough.

I will be editing a lot on Illya, however. As I have stated, she needs a lot of work done to her page. Stats, images, attacks/techniques, intellect even, all sorts.

Others from Chloe to Shirou are varitable (with KoGil likely not needing much work for now)
 
I'm pretty sure I already noted on who needs pages too. Though I did remember that I forgot to mention Miyu, other people that need pages for this part of Fate are Angie, Beatrice, and Julian.

Only problems I have that I'm unsure on what to make for others are Rin and Luvia cuz they don't have much else as most of the fighting ends up being left to Illya, Kuro, and Miyu. Not that they can't have profiles, I just DK enough of what else they have to make for them here.

Darius can have one but he's questionable in the sense that he's mainly now doing things in Julians body, and both may have feats of their own or one has feats that may not scale to the other (like Darius blocking an Excalibur sword attack with one hand, for instance).

Tanaka is vague enough for her as she hasn't much else as I said earlier above.

That's all.

Only the profiles of Fate/Kaleid that's present is what I want to get done with first for the time being.
 
It's been a little while since I've read Kaleid, so I'll do some quick reading up before I add onto what's already been said.
 
Noice. And thanks for the help if you can.

Also reminder to all here, I am currently working up a revised version of what Illya's profile would look in regards to this all here and putting them in sandbox format.

UNLESS someone is also doing something in advance as I am doing rn, I would ask if y'all can at least give me a moment to do Illya's. Most is done but I might not be able to post it until either later or by around the early morning I can get to it. If anything, she's about the one with the most problems to try and fix followed after Miyu! Shirou who doesn't have his Divine Construct Projections noted on his profile and other such like how Rho Aius performed to save Miyu and Illya from one of Beatrice's lightning pillars (it DID ofc got destroyed instantly, yes. But it still has the feat of at least diverting it away from them at the last second), and maybe Kuro/Chloe with her projections and such.
 
Stuff I can add off the top of my head:

1. Illya's AP should be at least City Level, likely higher, due to being able to hurt Shadow Berserker who had C-ranked God Hand.

2. Illya's power barrier's durability should be at least City Level due to tanking hits from Mjolnir, which was stated to be superior to attacks from Heracles Install.

3. Speed for combatants should be brought up to MHS due to fighting and keeping up with dozens of Shadow Servants (which should be comparable but inferior to average Servants).

4. New profiles should be written for Miyu, Julian, Darius, Beatrice and Angelica.

Something to note (though I doubt we can add it), the Kaleidosticks' original function was to use the Second Magic to take the knowledge of an alternate self and implant their skills and abilities into the minds of their user (as explained in F/HA). Since the Kaleidosticks do have this function and Zelretch has appeared in Kaleid, could this serve as a boost to Intelligence? There is at least one confirmed alternate Illya (F/SN) for Kaleid Illya to borrow knowledge from and she's a pretty competent magus.
 
How come no + though? The problem I have with that, to me, is, and unless I'm missing something here, aren't Servants that are even D rank like...IDK, at least City+? I'm actually really wondering why its just no + when all the other average Servants I've seen has it.
 
Back again. I was considering giving this a day to wait for replies but decided to do this sooner.

Now in response to Solacis, here's the things I will reply to each with but in no given order though you'll know what I will refer to either way:

  • Speed will obviously be MHS, that's correct. Nothing else to mention that there.
  • Profiles, pretty much but I still wonder if Darius should as he's also just possessing Julian at this point. Though seeing that we more or less also know what he looks like and what other things he has, I suppose he could but I want to know what others say here.
  • In regards to the profiles being at least City level, I'm not buying it completely. I see stuff like Roa being at least City+ in one of his weaker bodies or something or Ciel being that as well with either magecraft or in another key of hers. I obviously get that the Corrupt/Shadow Servants are weaker than their normal versions by the fact that they have their parameters knocked down by a rank or two (which can vary to one card to another though that also sounds hard since any of them can have any other knock down ranks), as is the NP's and skills like the Heracles one where he can only null anything C-rank and below when normally its anything that's below A-rank + the fact God Hand would have 11 live stocks but Kaleid pegged it down to an unknown degree. Same thing with Medusa's Mystic Eyes being A+ normally but is pegged to around B~A, or Delusional Illusion being B+ but got pegged to E or C+ depending on which you prefer in Include and Install.
Look, I'm fine everything else and maybe even tier them down a bit. But I honestly really can't see why they can't be just at least City level+. I don't see the difference much of them not being there beyond the points that they are weaker in their parameters, NP's, skills, whatever else. At least City level+ like how everyone else is in general scaling, no less than that. I'm honestly starting to really not buy them being even lower in the general tier unless someone gives me a more better explanation for how they can be lower than that. 'Kay? Again if not, I'm not pegging it down from what I've seen after having to go through the main series for several days in reading. This is also, to note, the only problem I have with that. Everything else, that's pretty much fine as is.

As for the last one, maybe? I never really thought about it though. Kind of running off of here to all that I still remember and recall but I can't say for this (I did say I read the series, didn't say I recall everything else).
 
A question about some of the reasoning used for the Installs and Illya's Zwei form. Why is Excalibur listed as 6-C when installed while Kuro's projection (which is superior) is only Large Mountain?

I'd say just make Darius another key in Julian's profile.

I believe someone on Beast Lair said that this GH only had three lives but it auto ejects the card after rez so its kinda useless unless you can install again.
 
Isn't it because Kuro now can only project a "paper-mache" version of Excalibur? That's what I and another on Skype thought about since the one that is 6-C was only when Kuro was still with Illya before getting her own body, right?

And yet again, same thing about City level above that no one wants to try and explain more to me on. Is there a reason to believe Kuro's Projection is still superior to Excalibur when she stated later on that now she can only do a paper-mache version? Either that or the thing when she used it against Gil's Shield of the God as a Broken Phantasm becomes 6-C again.

That sounds also preferrable to do for Darius.

Mmm.
 
ima post it here.

- Herc card's God Hand is only C-rank, and thus only works on attacks C-rank or lower.
- It also only has 3 stocks instead of 12, but then there's that forced eject so you'll never really make use of all 3 etc etc.
- Rider (Berserker Inheritance) still has Bellerophon as an NP but can't use it because no Riding skill.
- Pandemonium can't be "fully used" because something something the human brain can't handle total conversion into a monster.
- The power of Mjölnir's strike is doubled if charged with lightning first (I'm sure this was said in one of the chapters though).
- The power of the pillar storm attack is obviously weaker for each individual pillar but its strength is in the spread of the attack (also a pretty obvious one).
- The description for Mjölnir Ragnarok didn't really have anything that wasn't in the chapter.
- Magni has his horse, Gullfaxi available as a skill, but can't use it.
- Unless I'm reading it very wrong, it says the belt Beatrice wields actually has no effect, it was just a normal belt in Asgard, but Beatrice herself does believe it to have an effect.
- Magni has a "Thunder" skill at A-rank, inherited from Thor. It's mainly used to charge Mjölnir.
- Has Divinity at E-. While it was originally equivalent to A~B, it was degraded after the twilight of the gods.
- Has Natural Body A.
- Has Monstrous Strength at A+~A++ rank. Starts at the former, and after the twilight activates, it changes to A++.
 
@John: Kind of already known for Hercs. Though I never knew how many lives GH got pegged down for. That's a massive pegging if you ask me (pause).

Got'cha on both. Didn't know that Magni's Pillar Storm attack was weak for each one but alright to know.

The only things rn I'm trying to work with is the tiering for the characters we have rn on hand and later those that will get profiles for the verse. Main concern of this even more is Illya cuz she has the most to deal with that I want to get outta the way personally.
 
Not the time but I started rewatching Prillya last night and noticed something hilarious, Luvia set off 4/5 (or more) jewels (those 7-A ones) in her hand to kamikaze Bazett. This definitely puts Bazett at 7-A to High 7-A durability, reinforcing Bellerophon as High 7-A like the F/sn version.
 
I'll try to reason this out for the Excalibur thing but on the repetition part of it, I don't believe Kuro's/Chloe's Excalibur is the same as it was when she used it against the Blackened Saber's Excalibur cuz later in Prisma 3rei, she stated after having a bit of a bout with Illya on her resolve and confidence that her Excalibur as she was now on her own is a paper-mache copy. Assuming that its the same even in 2wei when they fought the Blackened Gil is why I have it at High 7-A though seeing that she did make it into a Broken Phantasm, maybe its rank up effect brings it up to 6-C again?

If yes, we can have Zwei's High 7-A to just 6-C in that case as Shield of God > Broken Phantasm Projection of Kuro as she is at that time.

THAT's how I think of it. I personally don't believe it still retained its Projection > Original state becuz of the above IMO.

Heh, nice. Though would that only affect her Dura and not AP, right?
 
Thats fair on Excalibur. If I see anything during the rewatch I'll mention it.

Just durability yeah. Baz did one shot Dark Gil but he regen'd from it. Her being likely 7-A isn't hard to believe tbh.
 
@Qliphoth

I was only listing City level as an absolute minimum. Personally, I expect it to be much higher, probably breaching into Mountain level given their feats of fighting Beatrice's Magni.
 
Ah, I see. Yeah, they have to be like At least City level+ minimum like how most of everything is here. Mountain level, I would say that works with Gorgon Install and likely Berserker Install as Illya is inheriting Heracles strength if nothing else.

Anyways, Illya's is I think done for the most part. Doing Chloe's next and Shirou next. After doing some edits on Bazett later, then we should be able to start on doing profiles for Miyu, Beatrice, Angie, and Julian with perhaps Darius being a key in Julian's profile.
 
I got distracted and started working on Beatrice and got a few questions.

1. Do I bother with a Magni Include? (I'm thinking no but just wanted to make sure)

2. Is Herc 7-A or just 7-B, possibly 7-A?

3. How does one class all the Mjölnir variant's?

  • All-Crushing Hammer casually wrecked 5 A-rank shields while nerfed indoors
  • Storm of the Thunder God pillars are noted to be weaker individually (this should be compared to the full power outside version) but still possesses a higher rank
  • Ragnarök, has a far higher rank and should be comparable to Crying Warmonger, but was tanked by both Magni and Herc users who should be Mountain level.
 
Right, right.

Well supposedly my friend is actually working on Beatrice's profile but to try and answer here also:

1. You should considering Magni's Class Card and skills and the like are the only known things we can go by of him. So yeah, include (no pun intended) that.

2. Tough one but I seriously feel that Hercs Class Card Install is 7-A to keep up with consistency. If not, at least 7-B, possibly/likely 7-A (whatever) works too to be safe I suppose.

3. Way the other would be Beatrice profile is being made is that ACH will be like 7-A for things like being greater than Hercs in power to that of the thing above seeing as Illya adopting Medea's magecraft using her Class Install means she should be able to recreate her shields which were said to be as durable as Hercs body back in FSN. Storm of Thunder God Pillars, IDK but they should be no less than around 7-A or whatever as it was noted that even one was disastrous for Miyu and Illya and Miyu! Shirou had to get up even while injured from Zerkerlot Install Sakura's attack on him + Beatrice whaling him off.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PFrYjg8LH-lBLlo566Z_c_zk9qSdRBBLaPr_dvTrDtE/edit?usp=sharing

But for a look at another draft outline of Beatrice, refer to link above.
 
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