Fairy Tail: Neo Eclipse, Two Years Later

[CloverDragon03]

Hi. Been a while since this subject was covered. In fact, it's been over 2 years since then. And with all this time that's gone by, I wanted to revisit this, as I believe I've become much better when it comes to debating this stuff.

So, Neo Eclipse. It's this nifty thing Zeref brings up in Chapters 530-532 of Fairy Tail, then is about to use in Chapters 533-534. To make a long story short, it's something Zeref creates by combining the powers of Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time, and he was going to use it to perform a time reset back to 400 years in the past. (Important Note: This is NOT time travel or a rewind, it's a reset. I've seen this misconception a lot, so I wanted to clear it up)

Now, the reason I've been brief about this and haven't attached any scans is because I've actually compiled a blog that evaluates Neo Eclipse, complete with scans and more details, shown below:

Neo Eclipse Evaluation Blog

As can be seen in this blog, I am proposing that Zeref's Fairy Heart Form key gets an additional rating for Neo Eclipse, which will not scale to his general statistics. This rating would be either 3-A, High 3-A, or Low 2-C depending on what is accepted. The reasoning for each tier is in the blog.

With all that being said and done, I've said all I wanted to say, so... DISCUSS!

Agree with 3-A:
Agree with High 3-A: 7 (@LordGriffin1000 [can agree to “possibly Low 2-C”], @Damage3245, @Benimōru, @Nierre, @KLOL506, @KingTempest [can agree to “possibly Low 2-C”], @TheForgottenKing [possibly Low 2-C])
Agree with Low 2-C: 21 (@Kachon123, @BreezeHM, @Lonkitt, @Planck69, @Remus1998, @DemonGodMitchAubin, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Excel616, @Memonto_Mori, @Shyster, @Chardee.wl, @poyraz, @Robo432343 [possibly Low 2-C], @M3X_2.0, @AnimesFreak2, @AnonymousBlank, @Arnoldstone18, @zeinx, @LephyrTheRevanchist, @Elizhaa)
Disagree: 1 (@PrinceofPein [High 3-A if this is accepted])
Neutral:

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[Kachon123]

After reading the blog, I do think that Low 2-C makes the most sense, considering erasing 400 years of time from the universe would be considered 'significantly affecting its space-time.'

 

[BreezeHM]

Low 2-C makes sense to me

 

[Lonkitt]

I agree with this being a Low 2-C feat given the evaluation blog. I appreciate how straightforward that was, by the way

 

[Planck69]

Since a chunk of the timeline, in which every single moment would have an instance of the 3-dimensional universe is erased, I think Low 2-C works for this.

 

[Remus1998]

If erasing 400 years of the universe's time counts as significantly affecting it, then I agree with Low 2-C

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean I’ve always believed it was 3-A to Low 2-C

So I agree to Low 2-C Neo Eclipse

 

[NatzuX]

I'm not very sure about the translation.
So, I want to just ratings High 3-A likely Low 2-C.

 

[Excellence616]

I agree with Low 2-C

 

[PrinceofPein]

It will be H3A, unless the entirety of a timeline is erased it is not L2C.
Regardless, this is not something done through any form of AP but rather a end result of a time reset. I still disagree, it is still ED

 

[Memonto_Mori]

We talked about this with you a long time ago. I participate in L2C and have been supporting it for a long time.

 

[Zeinx1]

It's low-2c and I fully agree and I can offer arguments for that.

 

[Chardee.wl]

I accept all arguments low 2-c is completely correct

 

[Chardee.wl]

I'm not very sure about the translation.
So, I want to just ratings High 3-A likely Low 2-C.

Depending on the context, the word there means universe because time is a structure that operates on a universal scale and in this way, zeref also affects space time to a great extent.

 

[Amon.vl]

I agree to l2-C

 

[NatzuX]

Depending on the context, the word there means universe because time is a structure that operates on a universal scale and in this way, zeref also affects space time to a great extent.

I understand what you are trying to convey. But I think the word sekai can be translated both to the world and to the universe, so I don't want to speculate that it's a universe just because time is the structure of the universe.

 

[KLOL506]

@Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @LordGriffin1000 @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkDragonMedeus Your evaluation here would be appreciated.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'd say High 3-A.

 

[Chardee.wl]

I understand what you are trying to convey. But I think the word sekai can be translated both to the world and to the universe, so I don't want to speculate that it's a universe just because time is the structure of the universe.

If a word is synonymous, we need to look at the context in which this word is used, and thus Zeref affects the space-time continuum on a universal scale. And again, it resets time on a universal scale and changes events in the timeline. These prove to us why the word sekai is used in the sense of universe.

 

[Chardee.wl]

I'd say High 3-A.

why?

 

[Chardee.wl]

It will be H3A, unless the entirety of a timeline is erased it is not L2C.
Regardless, this is not something done through any form of AP but rather a end result of a time reset. I still disagree, it is still ED

But in this way, Zeref affects space time significantly and reaches the power to destroy the universe.

 

[Benimōru]

I have to agree with LordGriffin. If what Zeref did was to erase 400 years of a timeline, this should only take him to H3-A at best.

The fact that there are infinite snapshots of this universe even in a 400-year period on a timeline means that he has destroyed an infinite 3-D and a 4-D of 400-year length, which should lead it to H3-A, not L2-C.

That's litteraly why in order to have L2-C AP, you have to destroy the whole timeline. 400 years of a timeline has only infinite 3-D snapshots, not 4-D.

And I'm pretty sure that what Zeref did was not erasing the timeline, but just reversing it. Even in the blog, Zeref tells to Mavis that he's going back 400 years, so I think he's implying that he's actually reversing time instead of erasing it. So I would prefer someone to explain it in more detail.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

why?

....

Our Low 2-C standard is

"Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale"

Zeref is significantly affecting but he's not significantly affecting the entire space-time continuum which by our standards is the "entire past, present and future of a 3-dimensional space". He's only nuking/erasing 400 years worth of the timelines history. I don't see him affecting the entirety of the past and future in the blog, if I missed that let me know.

 

[CloverDragon03]

....

Our Low 2-C standard is

"Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale"

Zeref is significantly affecting but he's not significantly affecting the entire space-time continuum which by our standards is the "entire past, present and future of a 3-dimensional space". He's only nuking/erasing 400 years worth of the timelines history. I don't see him affecting the entirety of the past and future in the blog, if I missed that let me know.

He states that the entire world will crumble away and that a new one will take its place, indicating he’s erasing the entire thing and then creating a new world up to 400 years in the past.

In addition, wouldn’t erasing 400 years be considered “significantly affecting” the space-time continuum?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also I’ll be updating the vote count later. Currently stuck on mobile

 

[CloverDragon03]

And I'm pretty sure that what Zeref did was not erasing the timeline, but just reversing it. Even in the blog, Zeref tells to Mavis that he's going back 400 years, so I think he's implying that he's actually reversing time instead of erasing it. So I would prefer someone to explain it in more detail.

This is not time travel. Zeref flat-out states he’s not going to the past or the future, as shown in one of the blog’s scans. Zeref has also made Eclipse, an actual time travel machine; so if he says this isn’t time travel, it’s reasonable to take his word for it

 

[Chardee.wl]

This is not time travel. Zeref flat-out states he’s not going to the past or the future, as shown in one of the blog’s scans. Zeref has also made Eclipse, an actual time travel machine; so if he says this isn’t time travel, it’s reasonable to take his word for it

Zeref had already designed Neo Eclipse when he was young. At that time, he had no intention of turning back time 400 years.So can we say that Zeref has enough potential to reset all of time or more than 400 years?

 

[CloverDragon03]

He designed Eclipse when he was young, not Neo Eclipse

 

[Arnoldstone18]

....

Our Low 2-C standard is

"Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale"

Zeref is significantly affecting but he's not significantly affecting the entire space-time continuum which by our standards is the "entire past, present and future of a 3-dimensional space". He's only nuking/erasing 400 years worth of the timelines history. I don't see him affecting the entirety of the past and future in the blog, if I missed that let me know.

That’s merely a common example of the definition of what affects “an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely sized 3D space.”

Aren’t the size of two points in a time line (space time continuum) qualitatively larger than a single point in time? Isn’t a “slice” of time of infinitesimal length (aleph-0) so two “slices” of time will have an uncountably infinite difference the same way a 3-D object is made up of an uncountably infinite number of its cross sections and a 2-D object made up of an uncountably infinite number of points: meaning at least two slices of time are uncountably infinitely greater in size than 1 slice.

Simply put, my point is simply affecting something on a 4-D scale in general is >> affecting an infinitely sized 3-D space and it has to be Low 2-C by our standards. This is Low 2-C.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

He states that the entire world will crumble away and that a new one will take its place, indicating he’s erasing the entire thing and then creating a new world up to 400 years in the past.

In addition, wouldn’t erasing 400 years be considered “significantly affecting” the space-time continuum?

You yourself put High 3-A as an option yet you seem to be arguing it's Low 2-C in general...

The entire world does not equate to the entire space-time continuum (past, present and future) unless specified. If I said I'm going to blow up the entire universe or make the entire (universe) crumble it would only be 3-A or High 3-A is the universe is infinite. It would only be Low 2-C if I said I'm going to blow up or crumble the timeline or it makes mention of the entire timeline being affected to a significant degree.

Here though, I saw no mention of the entire space-time continuum being erased/destroy, he just mentioned the current world will go bye bye which I assume means the universe but that's only 3-A by default. Now if he mentioned or used the word timeline then I'd be fine with Low 2-C but I don't see a mention of the past, present and future of the current world being destroyed through the affects of the technique just replacing it and erasing 400 (but if you arguing he is getting rid of the entire timeline, he'd be erasing more than 400 years)

A timeline is made up of an infinite number of uncountable snapshots going from the past to the future, affecting 400 years of history is in no way significantly affacting the uncountable infinite history that is a timeline as a whole. If you want Low 2-C, focus on the him replacing/erasing the current world (in it's entirety as you claim) and not the 400 years of erasure because that doesn't support Low 2-C at all going by our current standards.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

That’s merely a common example of the definition of what affects “an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely sized 3D space.”

Aren’t the size of two points in a time line (space time continuum) qualitatively larger than a single point in time? Isn’t a “slice” of time of infinitesimal length (aleph-0) so two “slices” of time will have an uncountably infinite difference the same way a 3-D object is made up of an uncountably infinite number of its cross sections and a 2-D object made up of an uncountably infinite number of points: meaning at least two slices of time are uncountably infinitely greater in size than 1 slice.

Simply put, my point is simply affecting something on a 4-D scale in general is >> affecting an infinitely sized 3-D space and it has to be Low 2-C by our standards. This is Low 2-C.

Our standards say the entirety of the past, present and future. If I nuked 400 years of history that is in no way significantly affecting the entire space-time continuum. But if that somehow still transcends into Low 2-C then sure, if enough people find that favorable then it is what it is but I'm not in favor of rating that at Low 2-C but that's my opinion.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You yourself put High 3-A as an option yet you seem to be arguing it's Low 2-C in general...

Uh, okay?

I kinda specified in the blog that Low 2-C is what I most strongly believe it is

A timeline is made up of an infinite number of uncountable snapshots going from the past to the future, affecting 400 years of history is in no way significantly affacting the uncountable infinite history that is a timeline as a whole. If you want Low 2-C, focus on the him replacing/erasing the current world (in it's entirety as you claim) and not the 400 years of erasure because that doesn't support Low 2-C at all going by our current standards.

I read through everything else but I felt this was the most important part to go through. Fair enough on the erasing 400 years thing. Essentially, if it’s only 400 years it’d be High 3-A, but if it’s the entire thing it’d be Low 2-C. Not sure how much I agree on that, but if that’s our standards, then sure.

I also believe he doesn’t need to specifically mention the world “timeline.” He mentions how he’s performing a time reset and that the world will crumble away and a new one will take its place. I believe this indicates that he’s erasing the entire timeline.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Our standards say the entirety of the past, present and future.

Our standard says that as an example. Which isn’t wrong but it never says it’s the only example just a very common one which is understandable cuz it’s very easy to explain and It’s not everyday you see someone destroy a second of time for instance.

 

[Zeinx1]

I understand what you are trying to convey. But I think the word sekai can be translated both to the world and to the universe, so I don't want to speculate that it's a universe just because time is the structure of the universe.

Sekai, which refers to the world in Fairy Tail cosmology, has been mentioned very few times. What is meant there is the universe (actually, it is a dimension in the universe).

 

[Benimōru]

This is not time travel. Zeref flat-out states he’s not going to the past or the future, as shown in one of the blog’s scans. Zeref has also made Eclipse, an actual time travel machine; so if he says this isn’t time travel, it’s reasonable to take his word for it

I'm well aware that it's not time travel, I just thought it looked more like a time reversal. But if you say it's not, then I'm fine with that

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm well aware that it's not time travel, I just thought it looked more like a time reversal. But if you say it's not, then I'm fine with that

Ah, you mean a time reversal. No, that doesn’t seem to be the case. He states it’s a time reset

 

[CloverDragon03]

I understand what you are trying to convey. But I think the word sekai can be translated both to the world and to the universe, so I don't want to speculate that it's a universe just because time is the structure of the universe.

You can’t do a time reset on a planetary scale, that’s not how time works. It most likely means universe in this context

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Uh, okay?

I kinda specified in the blog that Low 2-C is what I most strongly believe it is

So why even put the other ones if you're going to argue it's Low 2-C and believe it's Low 2-C. Makes no sense to me.

I read through everything else but I felt this was the most important part to go through. Fair enough on the erasing 400 years thing. Essentially, if it’s only 400 years it’d be High 3-A, but if it’s the entire thing it’d be Low 2-C. Not sure how much I agree on that, but if that’s our standards, then sure.

I also believe he doesn’t need to specifically mention the world “timeline.” He mentions how he’s performing a time reset and that the world will crumble away and a new one will take its place. I believe this indicates that he’s erasing the entire timeline.

If enough users and staff then he's getting crumbling away the entire timeline than I'm not going to argue.

Our standard says that as an example. Which isn’t wrong but it never says it’s the only example just a very common one which is understandable cuz it’s very easy to explain and It’s not everyday you see someone destroy a second of time for instance.

Ok.

You can’t do a time reset on a planetary scale, that’s not how time works. It most likely means universe in this context

This correct, our standards assume time related abilities affect a universal range unless proven otherwise.

 

[KLOL506]

Time-based abilities in general are considered to have Universal range unless stated or shown otherwise. We had a revision recently that established it as such.