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I thought Future Lucy died?
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Fairy Tail Hundred Year Quest Discussion Thread 8
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
- Start date
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She did die.
The Calaca, Future Lucy did not return back to life, we do not even know where she was, that was likely heaven, also, we did not see Levy among the FT Group in that picture who was still alive during that time. Plus when the DS came to the future via Eclipse Gate x777, the gate was destroyed as well but they did not go back to their past.
The Calaca, Future Lucy did not return back to life, we do not even know where she was, that was likely heaven, also, we did not see Levy among the FT Group in that picture who was still alive during that time. Plus when the DS came to the future via Eclipse Gate x777, the gate was destroyed as well but they did not go back to their past.
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She did die, even more so her entire timeline was deleted when the EG was destroyed.
If I'm remembering clearly those timelines existing in the first place were aberrations because everyone kept on coming back to that particular point in the past and that was causing issues in time in general, there wasn't any clear timeline at that point so destroying the gate deleted the 2 potential timelines from ever existing in the first place.
If I'm remembering clearly those timelines existing in the first place were aberrations because everyone kept on coming back to that particular point in the past and that was causing issues in time in general, there wasn't any clear timeline at that point so destroying the gate deleted the 2 potential timelines from ever existing in the first place.
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Edolas is a parallel universe not a parallel timeline so eclipse and time travel in general have little to do with it.
As for the rest I disagree. We get a view of how the timeline deviates here and then here
Future Lucy and Future Rogue are paradoxes, each being a result of the other. Lucy would never have gone back to shut the door if not for Rogue bringing the 10,000 dragons but Rogue wouldn't have needed to bring the dragons if not for Lucy shutting the door and ultimately letting Acno win. But both futures hinge on EG existing in the present, hence destroying the gate in the present means neither would come to the past, which means Rogue would never set the gate to pull Dragons from the past to the future
The reason why the DS don't return to the past is because EG isn't a singular constant in time I.e. it isn't acausal. Hence destroying it in the present will change the future, but it won't change the past
As for the rest I disagree. We get a view of how the timeline deviates here and then here
Future Lucy and Future Rogue are paradoxes, each being a result of the other. Lucy would never have gone back to shut the door if not for Rogue bringing the 10,000 dragons but Rogue wouldn't have needed to bring the dragons if not for Lucy shutting the door and ultimately letting Acno win. But both futures hinge on EG existing in the present, hence destroying the gate in the present means neither would come to the past, which means Rogue would never set the gate to pull Dragons from the past to the future
The reason why the DS don't return to the past is because EG isn't a singular constant in time I.e. it isn't acausal. Hence destroying it in the present will change the future, but it won't change the past
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Need to get to sleep, I have an early day 2moro, will respond to anything new 2moro
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Parallel timeline and universe Are considered similar or the same, depending on how it is described, which Ultear describes parallel universes as well with time. They are not paradoxes as they managed to exist still even after the gate is destroyed and were stated to be returning to their original timelines. The same logic would apply to the dragons when they came from the past too, the same past that was before their near extinction and the opening of the first Eclipse Gate for the DS. Which it they should not be able to know about the EG.
Even then, Ultear stated in chapter 333 that time in influx thus there are infinite possibilities and there is no predetermined factor to it. Even Ultear learned of Time Magic well before the Eclipse Gate in x777 opened so time was alway forming new parallel realities. And using time magic causes time to be warped, it is not like Eclipse is a special acception.
If we follow a different type of Time Travel where those points in time are deleted:
Even then, Ultear stated in chapter 333 that time in influx thus there are infinite possibilities and there is no predetermined factor to it. Even Ultear learned of Time Magic well before the Eclipse Gate in x777 opened so time was alway forming new parallel realities. And using time magic causes time to be warped, it is not like Eclipse is a special acception.
If we follow a different type of Time Travel where those points in time are deleted:
- If we destroy Present Gate
- Then the Dragons never came to the future
- If Dragons never came to the future
- thus the recent Eclipse Gate would only be used to go back and kill Zeref,
- thus Zeref would never exist, then Natsu would not exists and none of Zeref's creations and influences, including Eclipse Gate
- So how can they use the Eclipse Gate to go back and kill Zeref if it never existed to provide the means to time travel?
- If the Dragons never came to the future, there would have been no threat nor destruction from the Dragons,
- thus Future Lucy and Rogue never came to the past to warn anyone of the impending dangers.
- Even Crime Sorciere would not have warned FT about the strange magic from the Eclipse
- thus would not have met up
- thus would not have gotten the power up from Ultear
- And would lead to a different outcome from the main story
- then there wouldn't have been any connection between Atlas and Natsu that would lead to Sun Village arc or beyond,
- even Cobra would still be in prison
- thus neither group would know of Tartaros, END and Silver,
- Tartaros would have been more chaotic,
- Gray if got his Devil Slayer powers, would have likely been corrupted at some point,
- Gray would then have possibly, somehow killed Frosh, leading to the dark path for Rogue, and thus Acnologia would have conquered the world.
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While time reset is sure a hax, it did stated to physically destroy a universe. It's a similar case with Enrico Pucci's Made in Heaven. He used time acceleration to reset the universe.
Even though Zeref never did the feat, he theoretically still could do the feat and pretty sure there are characters that was rated based on the feat they never done before, but theoretically still can be accomplished by them.
Even though Zeref never did the feat, he theoretically still could do the feat and pretty sure there are characters that was rated based on the feat they never done before, but theoretically still can be accomplished by them.
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Weird chapter; and not in a totally good way. Wraith been related to Makarov was already an odd twist but now I feel as though the only reason for his existence was to set up the subplot of finding out his murderer.
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Ok so Base Natsu beats Makarov+Wraith, does that mean Base Natsu equals 4.04 Gigatons?
I still agree with this, also Wraith going out like this makes me question why he was even part of the Dragon Eaters and even then, how did he get Dragon Slayer Magic
I still agree with this, also Wraith going out like this makes me question why he was even part of the Dragon Eaters and even then, how did he get Dragon Slayer Magic
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@CNBA From what I understand parallel timelines can equate to parallel universes but parallel universes don't always equate to parallel timelines and it's possible to have both in the same verse for instance Ben 10- it's multiverse is seemingly largely made up of alternate timelines but it still has parallel universes. But ultimately this doesn't matter to my points.
The dragons are the ones who state that they're returning to their own time iirc, but future Rogue makes no such insinuation. And deleting those future timelines does not necessarily mean the events that occurred in the present won't, especially if we take Ultear's statements at face value. Remember her entire speech, even acknowledging that time was in flux ended with her concluding that murdering the present Rogue would still end up erasing future Rogue, the future at that point wasn't predetermined and was subject to change.
Ultimately I'd argue the rules of time at that point were malleable due to the misuse of EG and the colliding of the two potential timelines.
The dragons are the ones who state that they're returning to their own time iirc, but future Rogue makes no such insinuation. And deleting those future timelines does not necessarily mean the events that occurred in the present won't, especially if we take Ultear's statements at face value. Remember her entire speech, even acknowledging that time was in flux ended with her concluding that murdering the present Rogue would still end up erasing future Rogue, the future at that point wasn't predetermined and was subject to change.
Ultimately I'd argue the rules of time at that point were malleable due to the misuse of EG and the colliding of the two potential timelines.
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but that is the thing though, if Ben 10 makes a distinct naming such as alternate timelines and parallel universes is one thing, but with FT, different timelines are called Parallel universes. But even then, even if it wasn't subject to being predetermined, then Future Rogue would still exist as he was from a different universe and murder our Rogue for no reason, we know those timelines still exist, especially with Future Lucy's case, especially being in the afterlife, we can see how she still has her memories even tearing up while seeing all her friends, and Levy is not there among them as she was still alive. The EG would still need to be used at both points in time though and they require magic power, I find it hard to think of the EG 400 years ago being used twice especially when it had little magic power available.
EDIT: Also, any time magic can cause the warping of time. the EG is not really a means to change time, but to connect points in time, That would explain why the main timeline did not follow any predetermined path.
EDIT: Also, any time magic can cause the warping of time. the EG is not really a means to change time, but to connect points in time, That would explain why the main timeline did not follow any predetermined path.
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I think we should scale Base Natsu to be High 7-A+ (4.04 Gigatons), because he matched Wraith and Makarov's power added and multiplied together
OK, so what Wraith does is combine his and Makarov's power together, both of which are individually comparable to Ikusa-Tsunagi and scale to High 7-A (2.02 Gigatons), and then we get scans that literally say that their power is multiplying, implying even more than a 2X increase, point being that Base Natsu and those that scale to him should be 4.04 Gigatons
And this means that characters who are vastly superior to Base Natsu, like Laxus and Jellal should be baseline 6-C, which is 4.3 Gigatons, only 0.3 higher than the new Base's
Says his power will be multiplied
Says his power has been multiplied
EDIT: If it turns out Natsu used a Fire Dragon King attack to beat Makarov+Wraith, then FDKM Natsu would be High 7-A+ (4.04 Gigatons)
OK, so what Wraith does is combine his and Makarov's power together, both of which are individually comparable to Ikusa-Tsunagi and scale to High 7-A (2.02 Gigatons), and then we get scans that literally say that their power is multiplying, implying even more than a 2X increase, point being that Base Natsu and those that scale to him should be 4.04 Gigatons
And this means that characters who are vastly superior to Base Natsu, like Laxus and Jellal should be baseline 6-C, which is 4.3 Gigatons, only 0.3 higher than the new Base's
Says his power will be multiplied
Says his power has been multiplied
EDIT: If it turns out Natsu used a Fire Dragon King attack to beat Makarov+Wraith, then FDKM Natsu would be High 7-A+ (4.04 Gigatons)
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I agree with you Mitch.
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I'd say just move Natsu to baseline 6-C tbh. The Natsu comparable to Ikusa-Tsunagi had already gotten stronger and could fight Spriggans who are casually well beyond the failed war god. 0.26 gigatons is well within Natsu's reach if we get the multiplier accepted.
PrettyVixenGirl
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Last chapter 40 was emotional.
Cause I didn't get to see Mira this week ƒÿ¡ƒÿö
Whole time I'm looking at how many pages are left cause I was worried she ain't gunna show up. She didn't. I swear it's every week I'd my hope she gets some screen time. Better not be an offscreen fight.
Ima be honest I don't care about anything that happens with natsu. Anything that involved him I just stopped caring. His fights are all one punch. I was fine with him one hitting wraith. Cause that meant the chance of seeing Mira was higher, got my hopes up for nothing.
Aside from Laxus, Dimaria, brandish, Kyria, and ofc Mira, I don't care about anything that happens in ft anymore. So if it does not involve them I literally don't care. The fights in this series was good at a point, now it's all garbage. The anime is literally a PowerPoint slideshow presentation.
Cause I didn't get to see Mira this week ƒÿ¡ƒÿö
Whole time I'm looking at how many pages are left cause I was worried she ain't gunna show up. She didn't. I swear it's every week I'd my hope she gets some screen time. Better not be an offscreen fight.
Ima be honest I don't care about anything that happens with natsu. Anything that involved him I just stopped caring. His fights are all one punch. I was fine with him one hitting wraith. Cause that meant the chance of seeing Mira was higher, got my hopes up for nothing.
Aside from Laxus, Dimaria, brandish, Kyria, and ofc Mira, I don't care about anything that happens in ft anymore. So if it does not involve them I literally don't care. The fights in this series was good at a point, now it's all garbage. The anime is literally a PowerPoint slideshow presentation.
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Video form chapter 40-https://youtu.be/4Z1riacH4oQ
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Yeah Base Natsu should be baseline 6-C, one-shot Wraith+Makarov who added their magic power together and then multiplied it, that's certainly baseline 6-C, the Natsu line was just PIS about how Makarov is stronger when he fights using his own strength, since we literally were told they added and multiplied their strength, so Makarov is just Fodder to Base Natsu
Point being, Natsu should be way above 2X Ikusa-Tsunagi now, meaning Base Natsu is at least baseline 6-C
Edit: Also is it possible Porlyusica is Ivan's Mother and Laxus's grandmother
Point being, Natsu should be way above 2X Ikusa-Tsunagi now, meaning Base Natsu is at least baseline 6-C
Edit: Also is it possible Porlyusica is Ivan's Mother and Laxus's grandmother
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How so? The 3 other ones we see fight are definitely Spriggan tier and can tank or beat the forms used to beat Spriggans. So far the antifeats for this is Spider who is a clown in general and Wraith Makarov losing to Natsu who we know has gotten stronger and Makarov's body is greatly weakened from its prior level.
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I think the issue is assuming all the DE are at the same level, Skullion and his squad could be among some of the more powerful members. While Spider and Wraith being weaker members.
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Think about it, with Wraith saying that no magic Natsu is on the same level as Madmole, when using regular punches and kicks against him, even with Erza versus Kyria, she best her without using her stronger armors and uses a swords that is affective against dragons. Madmole only beat Natsu by exploiting his weakness to motion sickness and beat Madmole with a regular FDK Spell, the only one I can argue is slightly as strong is Skullion but even he had to retreat knowing how bad the situation got with.
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We also gotta take into account that everyone is likely stronger after a year since the Alvarez War, remember how much everyone got stronger after a year before, it's very likely they're much stronger than before
What do you guys think about Baseline 6-C Natsu
What do you guys think about Baseline 6-C Natsu
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Seems accurate
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I think it makes sense.
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I agree with my proposal
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It's just very simple. No one among MC in their bases on Spriggan tier. They could fight agains casual Spriggans but lose to their serious. Erza weaker than base Natsu. Laxus on level of strongest of "usual" Spriggans but no way near two strongest (base Irene and Red August).
Natsu FDKM is between usual and strongest spriggans.
Natsu FDKM is between usual and strongest spriggans.
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Uhhh (insert wat meme)
Natsu was swapping hands with Jacob until his Stealth came into play. Lucy and base Mira could harm Jacob, Elfman and Lisanna (weaker than Natsu) could harm Ajeel, Erza was the same the moment she could bypass his logia, Gajeel taking all the hits from 3rd Seal Bloodman and being able to harm him the few times he makes contact pre DF etc etc. Laxus on the level of normal Spriggans? Sorry but that is just wrong. Everytime he showed up in Alvarez he was clearly shown to be so absurdly beyond the usuals that he was one shotting them no diff and needed the top tiers or being hard countered to be stopped. Ajeel who was about to beat Team Natsu and Makarov? One shot if not for August. Wall? Was still holding his own despite his lightning being negged, only started losing when his magic cancer kicked in, cured and he one shots Wall with lightning despite the resistance.
Finally, something that is true.
Natsu was swapping hands with Jacob until his Stealth came into play. Lucy and base Mira could harm Jacob, Elfman and Lisanna (weaker than Natsu) could harm Ajeel, Erza was the same the moment she could bypass his logia, Gajeel taking all the hits from 3rd Seal Bloodman and being able to harm him the few times he makes contact pre DF etc etc. Laxus on the level of normal Spriggans? Sorry but that is just wrong. Everytime he showed up in Alvarez he was clearly shown to be so absurdly beyond the usuals that he was one shotting them no diff and needed the top tiers or being hard countered to be stopped. Ajeel who was about to beat Team Natsu and Makarov? One shot if not for August. Wall? Was still holding his own despite his lightning being negged, only started losing when his magic cancer kicked in, cured and he one shots Wall with lightning despite the resistance.
Finally, something that is true.
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well for Lucy, she really got her hits in because of Jacob being distracted and with conjunction with Natsu's attack. even with Mira in base she gets her hits in with Jacob who has his eyes closed. and that is lightning that has special properties with Wall, and looking back at it, it is a good thing that Laxus did not fight the proxy, as Wall would not be aware of the attack in the future.
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Natsu was swapping hands with Jacob until his Stealth came into play. Again I said they could fight agains CASUAL. After Jacob got series he easily overwhelm Natsu even with Lucy support.
Elfman and Lisanna (weaker than Natsu) could harm Ajeel, Plot armor or PIS
Erza was the same the moment she could bypass his logia Casual Ajeel who has low defense among Spriggans as Logia-type. After he got serious he trashed Erza.
Gajeel taking all the hits from 3rd Seal Bloodman and being able to harm him the few times
Same as before. He damaged Bloodman without seals, Bloodman has lower "stats" compare to other twelve as his point is abilities and he is also logia type with lower defense as Ajeel.
Laxus on the level of normal Spriggans?
I say on par with strongest one among usuals with best stats as Dragon Slayer. Best stats is God Serena, God Dimaria and boosted Nienhart. Maybe Brandish as all spriggans scales from her small island reduce. And also Invel who with armor should has same defense as God Serena and Dimaria God soul. Also we never know the truth if he could really beat Ajeel with one hit. Wall hasn't same defense as "stat strong" spriggan. Though he should be above Ajeel and Bloodman defense. So lets just put Laxus between God Serena and Larcade.
Well my words proved by thing that base Natsu ~ around Makarov. Ofc Kyria who is Erza level couldn't do a thing to Laxus.
Elfman and Lisanna (weaker than Natsu) could harm Ajeel, Plot armor or PIS
Erza was the same the moment she could bypass his logia Casual Ajeel who has low defense among Spriggans as Logia-type. After he got serious he trashed Erza.
Gajeel taking all the hits from 3rd Seal Bloodman and being able to harm him the few times
Same as before. He damaged Bloodman without seals, Bloodman has lower "stats" compare to other twelve as his point is abilities and he is also logia type with lower defense as Ajeel.
Laxus on the level of normal Spriggans?
I say on par with strongest one among usuals with best stats as Dragon Slayer. Best stats is God Serena, God Dimaria and boosted Nienhart. Maybe Brandish as all spriggans scales from her small island reduce. And also Invel who with armor should has same defense as God Serena and Dimaria God soul. Also we never know the truth if he could really beat Ajeel with one hit. Wall hasn't same defense as "stat strong" spriggan. Though he should be above Ajeel and Bloodman defense. So lets just put Laxus between God Serena and Larcade.
Well my words proved by thing that base Natsu ~ around Makarov. Ofc Kyria who is Erza level couldn't do a thing to Laxus.
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By the end of Alavrez Base Natsu is stronger than every spriggan except Irene and August, he defeated Enchanced Neinhart who was stronger than Brandish, Erza only couldn't win against Ajeel is because she couldn't hit him, Elfman and Lisanna beating Ajeel isn't PIS, we actually see that Elfman is currently close to Satan Soul Mira, so stop downplaying Elfman, he got way stronger from Tartaros to Alvarez, Natsu still fought well against Jacob and the only reason Jacob was getting the upper hand was stealth and hax via transport, there is literally no statement of Bloodman being below the other spriggans and Gajeel was matching and taking hits from him the entire time, Laxus beat Wall who is basically Immune to Lightning, not to mention Laxus was weakened due to being extremely sick
Point being Base Natsu characters = Spriggans, no argument
Point being Base Natsu characters = Spriggans, no argument
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Again I said they could fight agains CASUAL. After Jacob got series he easily overwhelm Natsu even with Lucy support. Except Natsu was also casual during that fight becaus ehe didn't want to destroy the guild hall. We see this as he powers up after Makarov threw him before entering FDKM.
Plot armor or PIS Not a valid arguement without proof.
Casual Ajeel who has low defense among Spriggans as Logia-type. After he got serious he trashed Erza. Due to ajeels intagablity Erza could't use her strongest armors against him so again Erza was also casual we even see this when she one shots him with her Nakagami armor. Also Ajeel having low defence is pure headcanon
Same as before. He damaged Bloodman without seals, Bloodman has lower "stats" compare to other twelve as his point is abilities and he is also logia type with lower defense as Ajeel. The only stat of Blood man that is lower than any of the other Spriggans is his magic power but that is due to him being an Etherious and thus uses mostly curses. And again his durability being weaker is pure headcanon.
A massively weakened Laxus is enough to one shot a mid tier Spriggan and Base natsu one shot an enhanced Neinhart. Erza by the end of the arc could somewhat contend with Base Irene dispite not being at 100%. Natsu after his Dragon/Demon seed almost killed him shocked both Lucy and Gray when he powered up against Zeref dispite both knowing how strong Natsu was before hand.
Plot armor or PIS Not a valid arguement without proof.
Casual Ajeel who has low defense among Spriggans as Logia-type. After he got serious he trashed Erza. Due to ajeels intagablity Erza could't use her strongest armors against him so again Erza was also casual we even see this when she one shots him with her Nakagami armor. Also Ajeel having low defence is pure headcanon
Same as before. He damaged Bloodman without seals, Bloodman has lower "stats" compare to other twelve as his point is abilities and he is also logia type with lower defense as Ajeel. The only stat of Blood man that is lower than any of the other Spriggans is his magic power but that is due to him being an Etherious and thus uses mostly curses. And again his durability being weaker is pure headcanon.
A massively weakened Laxus is enough to one shot a mid tier Spriggan and Base natsu one shot an enhanced Neinhart. Erza by the end of the arc could somewhat contend with Base Irene dispite not being at 100%. Natsu after his Dragon/Demon seed almost killed him shocked both Lucy and Gray when he powered up against Zeref dispite both knowing how strong Natsu was before hand.
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Elfman and Lisanna beating Ajeel is evident PIS. Elfman has never been comparable to Natsu level characters, always being behind them by a good margin. He relies more on tactics than sheer strength (ironically).
Lisanna has virtually zero feats comparable to that, while Ajeel almost defeated Erza. It's one hell of a PIS that laughs on Erza's face in the most crude way possible.
Lisanna has virtually zero feats comparable to that, while Ajeel almost defeated Erza. It's one hell of a PIS that laughs on Erza's face in the most crude way possible.
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