Fairy Tail 100 Year Quest Discussion Thread: Post-Void Saga

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

If DF Wendy was Master Enchanter level don't you think that would be mentioned instead?
I can't believe you guys find it absolutely incredulous that Irene at her strongest could possibly contend with Human level DG, but Say Wendy is stronger than Dragon form Irene at the drop of a hat. Especially since just 2 arcs ago, Wendy hadn't even achieved 1% of Irene's full power. Blows my mind really.

Also the fact that Brandish can make herself larger and the vast majority of the power is due to the size means she does scale.

You realize it has nothing to do with opinions and is straight up feats performed by the characters

I don't put Wendy above Irene because I personally believe her to be above her

I put Wendy above Irene because she clapped someone who is comparable to someone, who is way above someone who is above Irene

If that gets retconned later, then that's just the way it'll be, but as it stands, current Wendy scales above Irene cause she beat Haku

Before that fight, I would agree that Irene was way stronger

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The fact that Wendy's magic level is still only stated to have just reached a tier below what Irene is capable at max should tell you that something went wrong somewhere along the line in your evaluation of the character's strengths. If the intention was for Wendy to have surpassed Irene in that scene, It'd have definitely been said. Especially given the gap between them that was presented just 2 arcs prior. The entire scaling of the DDSK hinges on the acceptance of Suzaku being stronger than human form Selene. The same Selene that has a track record since her introduction of lying to people and putting on performances for fun. In the same breath Selene says Suzaku is stronger than her, She also says she wants the Dragon eaters help to fight against the other Dragon Gods. That turned out to be a lie and now she's saying her real plan is to use the weapons against them. You can't really trust her. If it wasn't for the fact that other people had said it, I wouldn't even believe her whole "Dragon Gods are equally balanced in power" thing. When her peer is shown to be able to casually produce an attack far stronger than anything Suzaku has shown, it shouldn't be a surprise that I'm skeptical of her "defeat".

When it's revealed, it won't be a retcon, just a clarification.

Bruh, you're full of cap, Suzaku blatantly defeated Selene, she flat out says he's stronger than her Human Form, he can take an attack from Human Ignia. That's all consistent, there's no PROOF she was lying, you're just saying that she must be to suite your narrative that Wendy must be weaker than Irene

The comment was about Base Wendy being High Enchanter level since all the feats Irene performed were with Base Wendy's magic power. There's nothing you've presented that proves Irene>Wendy, it's all based on "Well if Wendy was stronger, Irene would have stated it". That's not how we do things here. We scaled based on statements and feats and at the current moment, Wendy scales above Irene. That could absolutely change in the future, but as of this moment, she has superior feats. Besides, if you were going to try and debunk Wendy being above Irene, don't attack Suzaku being Selene level, something that's blatantly stated and supported by feats. Instead pull some shit like "Well Haku was holding back and was faking being KO'd by Wendy". If you had said that, I could have maybe agreed with your take, but instead you tries to debunk Suzaku being Selene level, which is blatantly false.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I see the concept of lies is foreign to you. Based on your logic, Ignia casually oneshots Selene if they fought in human form since the attack Ignia did was massively stronger than the attack Suzaku "defeated" her with. Character traits are a thing and lying is one of Selene's

And this is why the majority of the pages look like fantasy. Ignoring obvious storytelling elements will always lead down the wrong path when evaluating a story. and I'm not "attacking" anything. I'm pointing out the likelihood that Selene's performance was just that, a performance. Suzaku surviving an attack that Ignia didn't even intend to kill Natsu doesn't automatically mean that all of Suzaku's attacks scale to it. Especially when said attack is demonstrated to be massively stronger than Suzaku's best attack. If you really think Suzaku being stronger than Selene should be taken at face value, then ask yourself a simple question. Based on what we've seen of the power differences, what would happen if Suzaku hit Ignia with the same attacked he "defeated" Selene with. I think the obvious answer should be that it wouldn't do much as it's been demonstrated to be weaker than Ignia's casual attacks. Only 2 conclusions can be reached from that point. Either Ignia is massively stronger than Selene and the fight next chapter is going to be a god stomp, or Selene was lying when she told Suzaku he was stronger than her human form..... just like most other things she said that chapter turned out to be a lie.

Also even based on how you guys do things here, the whole "feats are the only thing that matters" isn't true. Many characters don't have any feats to go off of. But when somebody the story indicates in weaker than them does something, it scales to them automatically. The last time we got a concrete comparison of Wendy vs full power Irene, Wendy was less than 1 percent even with a powerup. A gap that large doesn't get closed and the only thing that is mentioned is "you've achieved a level of power that is a tier under my full power". But if ignoring obvious things is how you operate around here then fine I guess. This is why you guys often have to jump through hoops later down the line. You make a leap in the wrong direction then hold your ground while the story moves in the other.

Lots of argument from incredulity here

Every single one your points comes down to concepts and scaling that are not actually proven or stated.

“Suzaku can’t be comparable to Human Ignia”

“Wendy can’t possibly close a 100x gap in so little time”

“Irene would have said Wendy’s stronger than her if she was”

“Ignia can’t clap Selene in Base”

All of these aren’t proven. Narratively and opinion wise, they may have some validity, but they ain’t concrete by any means. You haven’t presented actual evidence that negates all this scaling, you’re just doubtful of present scaling cause it doesn’t align with your perspective. And then you act like us being proven wrong one day is a negative. Like if Hiro down the line says Irene>Wendy, we’re gonna have a fit. No, I wouldn’t care because we’ll do what we’ve always done, adjust scaling based on all the evidence presented. New and old. If Hiro later says Irene is stronger, I wouldn’t care and would apply the necessary changes. We do that constantly. But you act like we want Wendy>Irene. I honestly don’t give a **** and don’t believe Wendy should have been scaled above Irene, but it is what it is.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Suzaku after witnessing Ignia's power "you can't win against such a foe". Suzaku just witnessed his strongest attack get blocked by the man he says is no match for Human form Ignia. But yes there's definitely no narrative indication that Human form Ignia is stronger than Suzaku. SMH

You clearly ain’t a FT fan, because if you were, you’d know that Suzaku will very likely end up severely damaging Dragon Ignia or Selene.

You think claims like these matter at all in FT? Bruh the Spriggans got the same kinda hype. “Ugh, we can’t fight or beat these guys, they’re too strong”. They then all proceed to lose to everyone. Same with the Dark Dragon Slayer Knights. Misaki and Haku had big hype, but they still lost to Erza and Wendy. Natsu ******** his pants at August and then proceeding to solo FH Zeref. I take statements of fear like the ones Suzaku says with a grain of salt.

Besides I think it’s very clear that Ignia’s Human Form is stronger than Selene’s Human Form. We know their Dragon Forms are said to be equal, but it’s not said of their Human Forms. Ignia with his bare hand and being off guard pretty casually blocked an attack from Human Selene and then they both went Dragon Form. Leaving the true comparison between the two Human Forms uncertain.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well that’s enough debating for tonight. You’re free to believe whatever you want Tohaku. I just don’t think you agree with how power scaling works with VSBW’s rules.

 

[CNBA3]

Why would Selene lie? The whole point of Suzaku vs Selene is to establish they’re comparable… I mean Natsu and Suzaku took minimal damage from Ignia’s point blank attack

Also there’s literally nothing that has Irene and August above the DDSK

To get Diabolos to follow her? To just mess around? We see Her change goals faster than Jekyll and Hyde change personas. Irene helped defeat Haku and could react to his speed.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I can agree to that, I mean anything to make DragonGamer seethe

I hate you

 

[CloverDragon03]

Anyways, level of skill with Enchantments does not correlate with power, as shown by Erza having less skill with Enchantments and being stronger than Wendy.

Irene and August being on the level of Haku is cap. End of story

 

[CNBA3]

When when is not using her potential maybe, but when she does and becomes a high enchanter, then yes she would be around or stronger and considering that she broke the stone of the labyrinth. Irene and August scales, there are just too many pieces of evidence for it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

When when is not using her potential maybe, but when she does and becomes a high enchanter, then yes she would be around or stronger and considering that she broke the stone of the labyrinth. Irene and August scales, there are just too many pieces of evidence for it.

“Too many pieces of evidence” No, more like a bunch of speculation that doesn’t actually amount to anything concrete.

This is getting ridiculous

 

[CNBA3]

“Too many pieces of evidence” No, more like a bunch of speculation that doesn’t actually amount to anything concrete.

This is getting ridiculous

That is your thought then if that is the response given.

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, that’s just how it is. You’re correlating Enchantment skill to raw power, which does not have much of a base at all. And when Human Acnologia one-shot God Serena, who possibly scales to Gildarts, who is somewhere between Human Irene and Dragon Irene in power, and Haku is at least Human Acnologia level…

Yeah no, I don’t buy into this

 

[CNBA3]

Enchantments just like any other magic do correlate to raw power since enchantments can be countered by strength too, Historia GS managed to draw blood and ruffle up Gildarts who the former would likely be 1/3 his original strength. Irene managed not only react to but to hold Haku down as well with Wendy's magic against her will who Irene said that is just little bit below her own.

Again, your thoughts

 

[CloverDragon03]

There’s a difference between mastery of enchantments vs. raw power in them, as I’ve mentioned with Erza before. Erza is already stronger than Wendy, yet she has inferior enchanting abilities.

You keep saying “your thoughts” when your own thoughts are less substantiated. The Spriggan wank needs to stop

 

[CNBA3]

Eh, until we see Erza break the Labyrinth stone like Wendy did, I am not so sure, I have done nothing but provide evidence, don't know what you mean by that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I get what you're trying to say with your evidence, the difference between us is whether or not we think the connection can be made between Enchantment skill and raw power.

And it's just not consistent for Irene to be on Haku's level, unless you're saying Irene is stronger than Zeref

 

[CNBA3]

I get what you're trying to say with your evidence, the difference between us is whether or not we think the connection can be made between Enchantment skill and raw power.

And it's just not consistent for Irene to be on Haku's level, unless you're saying Irene is stronger than Zeref

It is a matter of opinion then regarding enchantments, Well another piece of evidence for Zeref as Woflen is that he would have destroyed Aldoron had Wolfen not ceased to be, and that was aldoron at his peak and Zeref not at his full power. And before you say that it is death hax, he said that it was causing serious damage, and we can see crater forming from his magic.

 

[Yoyco]

Eh, until we see Erza break the Labyrinth stone like Wendy did, I am not so sure, I have done nothing but provide evidence, don't know what you mean by that.

Just like Lucy right....

 

[CNBA3]

Just like Lucy right....

Lucy didn’t do that

 

[Yoyco]

Lucy didn’t do that

But she did....oh I get it. Ignore one and accept the other, I get your drift

 

[CNBA3]

But she did....oh I get it. Ignore one and accept the other, I get your drift

Unless the ground swelled and shattered like it did before and not just raised a few stray, loose stones, then they are not the same

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, so just a quick thing, the japanese raws for this statement are a lot more direct about scaling

This very clearly states that Misaki's Magic Power is on the same level as Laxus and Gildarts, so yeah, it's all very very consistent

Jellal ~ Erza ~ Laxus ~ Gildarts ~ Misaki ~ Kirin ~ Suzaku ~ Human Form Selene

Feats and Statements all support this above to a T, I'm glad Hiro is very direct about these things

 

[CloverDragon03]

It is a matter of opinion then regarding enchantments, Well another piece of evidence for Zeref as Woflen is that he would have destroyed Aldoron had Wolfen not ceased to be, and that was aldoron at his peak and Zeref not at his full power. And before you say that it is death hax, he said that it was causing serious damage, and we can see crater forming from his magic.

"And before you say it's death hax"

My dude.

It literally is.

Zeref was using Death Predation, the big haha death hax gg wave. He said it was causing serious damage because Aldoron would "wither and die" if it kept up. This is a skewed interpretation of what was happening

 

[CNBA3]

"And before you say it's death hax"

My dude.

It literally is.

Zeref was using Death Predation, the big haha death hax gg wave. He said it was causing serious damage because Aldoron would "wither and die" if it kept up. This is a skewed interpretation of what was happening

Death does not cause physical damage, it is abstract, yet we see physical damage happening around it, creating a crater and such, withering and dying is not damage, withering is just shriveling up by lack of water without damage, damage causing physical harm.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's the same spell that we already know to be death hax. This is not debatable. There was hardly even a crater to begin with, it was only where Zeref was standing and wasn't there until after he disappeared.

 

[CNBA3]

It's the same spell that we already know to be death hax. This is not debatable. There was hardly even a crater to begin with, it was only where Zeref was standing and wasn't there until after he disappeared.

And that spell can be calculated from the physical damage that it caused, and that crater was caused by the spell as you can see from the outlines.

 

[Yoyco]

Unless the ground swelled and shattered like it did before and not just raised a few stray, loose stones, then they are not the same

We literally see it do that...

Explain why I can't say the same for Wendy's or call both art inconsistencies, which they are

 

[CNBA3]

We literally see it do that...

Explain why I can't say the same for Wendy's or call both art inconsistencies, which they are

No, not against Kyria as the ground is still flat there with just a few small pebbles, while at Aldoron, entire boulders were uplifted and the ground swelled like a cyst.

 

[Yoyco]

No, not against Kyria as the ground is still flat there with just a few small pebbles, while at Aldoron, entire boulders were uplifted and the ground swelled like a cyst.

We see it destroy the floor. This is no different to Wedny's case, except your trying to cover up for Wedny since it destroys your entire argument and makes it look foolish. So either Lucy and Wendy > Natsu, Suzaku, Erza, Kirin and Laxus or it's an art consistency.

You can't cherry pick

 

[CNBA3]

We see it destroy the floor. This is no different to Wedny's case, except your trying to cover up for Wedny since it destroys your entire argument and makes it look foolish. So either Lucy and Wendy > Natsu, Suzaku, Erza, Kirin and Laxus or it's an art consistency.

You can't cherry pick

We do not, all we see are a few stray rocks, you can hardly see anything since it is all cast in black, where as with Wendy‘s case it is presented in blright daylight. Unless you case show it in a uncovered environment and showed the ground swelling 100% like it’s previously established showing, there is no really comparison to Wendy.

here is the perspective.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Jesus tap dancing christ.....

2 pages of nothing but Spriggan wank

 

[Acnologia2415]

Hi guys, I lurk here often and I completely forgot I had this account lmao, so I can finally type.

Regarding Neinhart, it seems much more likely that he's supposed to be a powerful mage with crappy defenses, much like the ones you see in video games (high magic, but easy to one shot, aka glass canon). His main magic is making replicas of the dead fight for him, and he's never shown physical based attacks so I don't see how you can argue that his AP = durability.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

2 pages of nothing but Spriggan wank

Spriggan Simpage

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Hi guys, I lurk here often and I completely forgot I had this account lmao, so I can finally type.

Regarding Neinhart, it seems much more likely that he's supposed to be a powerful mage with crappy defenses, much like the ones you see in video games (high magic, but easy to one shot, aka glass canon). His main magic is making replicas of the dead fight for him, and he's never shown physical based attacks so I don't see how you can argue that his AP = durability.

Natsu still overpowers and defeats him, with Brandish questioning "Is he really this strong?"

Like this is still a showcase of superiority between Base Natsu and Brandish

 

[CNBA3]

Brandish was not magically superior to enhanced Neinhart.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Pretty basic small speed upgrade

 

[AnimesFreak2]

I don't know why yall bringing up Natsu being tempted to use Igneel's power on brandish/ajeel

That was clearly Mashima overhyping the ever loving **** out of his villains again

Natsu showed at the beginning of the war arc his BASE FORM was already Spriggan level lmfao

And his Base only continued to get stronger throughout the war

 

[CloverDragon03]

And that spell can be calculated from the physical damage that it caused, and that crater was caused by the spell as you can see from the outlines.

But that's not its purpose. Also, Zeref doing raw, haxless damage to Dragon Aldoron is completely inconsistent with his utter inferiority to Dragon Acnologia

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Here how I see Zeref damaging Aldoron


A. It's similar to Neinhart's Historias where he can amp people weaker than himself to comparable to his own Magic Power

B. It's just a massive outlier since DG>>>Pre SBT Acnologia>>>Zeref and it completely makes no sense

Mashima logic:

 

[CloverDragon03]

Here how I see Zeref damaging Aldoron


A. It's similar to Neinhart's Historias where he can amp people weaker than himself to comparable to his own Magic Power

B. It's just a massive outlier since DG>>>Pre SBT Acnologia>>>Zeref and it completely makes no sense

Mashima logic:

No it's literally just death hax my dude