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I tried to make a trainers revision since it was planned afte the later revisions, but without a thread to explain things it is too risky, this thread is a discussion one which aims for revisions as discussed.
Note 1: This is my take and impression about many things in Pokémon about the revisions, i'm free to accept criticism if i made mistakes since this thread is mostly aimed to fix things. I know i changed some profiles but it was to show my version of the pages, through it was better if i made a blog rather than changing the pages that way, but i'm willing to take the consequences and fix them to a version liked by the users and admins.
In a regular Pokémon story there is supposed to be a scaling consistency since a regular trainer starts his journey in order to defeat eight gym leaders and take over the League. Each Gym is stronger then the previous and the Pok├¿mon League is even stronger.
Let's start with the trainers:
1] Why Sick Wally is 10-A and not 10-B?.
Normal Humans in the Pokémon World are phisically superior to us via their feats and is implied by reading the other books there in a past relationship with humans and Pokémon in the past. Humans are kind implied to be Half-Pokémo, which kinda explains the next stuff to a degree. So, 10-A for a not fully developed Wally as a kid. Some kid can develop physic powers and kids that will start to learn karate will become powerful, trainers trains along with their Pokémon.
2] Why trainers like Red are 9-C in AP?.
Red can take many heavy falls and emerging unscathed. Pokémon trainers can block and harm eachother as seen Here, Adventures and in Origins. In the Anime a random perso broke a 9-C door.
3] Why Origins Red has 9-B+, Ash and Manga Red have 8-C Durability.
Origins Red supposedly took an explosio, while Ash and Red took blasts of electricity.
However some trainers have inconsistent since incredibly high durability feats like Blue1and 2, Ash, 1 and 2, Red, Yellow, Zinnia , Maylene and etc. Team Rocket tried to stop a Dragonite in the first movie and surviving like a gag to every attack and robot explosion in each episode even from Elite 4/Champion trained Pokémon's. Different from the others, this one has a rather weak dura showing.
Some other trainers have also inconsistent since incredibly high combat speed and reaction speed ranging from Red dodging attack to Giovanni keeping track and easily predicting the movements of Mewtwo without problems.
Lastly there is Ryuga and his feats and the guy that can fight Powerful Pokémo without problems, the latter was likely amped.
- So, what i propose is to make Ash, Red and Team Rocket 9-C in Dura since its inconsistent for them even if it was seen many times in relation to all the other trainers.
4] Why is Bruno 9-B+?.
Bruno is superior to the Black Belts Martial which were said to break boulders aka 9-B feat and comparable to Bryce, who is 9-B+.
5] Now the question that comes is: why the Game, Origins, Generations, Manga and Anime Continuities are scaled with eachother?.
In an interview it was stated that most timelines follow the similar battles events and plot [Adventures has some differencies but the main characters are present], similar to each other also Origins, The Anime, Generations, Manga are Adaptations of the Game, which brought all of them in the first place and they have connections. Lastly not all things are similar since inconsistencies are presents as a long running series. The Shadow Triad travels at peak human speed, Ash was shown to be faster and stronger than normal humans and has shown to have feats that makes him Superhuman 9-B.
6] What about the Trainers scaling.
Now i will explain the trainers scaling since i felt the previous ratings were bad:
The Pokémon levels can be seen as a game mechanic, but i sees it as viewer on how much a Pok├¿mon is grown in the journey and not abuse them since of course HG/SS Red is not 2-B for surpassing Arceus Lv 80.
Beginning Trainer: A trainer at the start of his journey is 8-A+ thanks to this feat caused by a beginning charged Pikachu as stated by Oak in the first episode, which was initially comparable to other Pokémon such as Charmender, Horsey that can create tornadoes and etc. He can defeat Pidgey and Spearow thanks to his type advantage [Which will be mentioned by Lawrence 3┬░ while using elemental cannons against the birds]. This Pikachu in particular becomes unique and powerful later.
Trainer at his/her Beginnings: At least 8-A+ is for the trainers that are fought briefly before a First Gym Leader, and possess several 8-A+ Pokémon.
First Gym: All the First Gym Leader are Low 7-B because Falker has a Pidgeotto that scales to Volbeat Seismic Toss, also Totem Raticate.
Above First Gym: Those stronger than them are at least Low 7-B, and Low 7-B+ are for those like Gladion that are fought one instant before a second Gym Leader level opponent at the high-end.
Second Gym: Second Gym Leaders are 7-B because Totem School Wishiwashi is considerably superior to Totem Raticate, Whole Wishiwashi are said to be a threat to Wild [Not trained] Gyarados, which can destroy entire cities in a rage. There are trainers at this part that actually uses a Gyarados in D/P and S/M.
Note 2: The protagonist is not Tier 6 for catching a Salamence via SOS and i cannot make Misty Starmie High 6-C+ because the profile list it at that level, which i will explain later.
Third Gym: Third Gym Leaders are at least 7-B for being fought shortly after the second gym leaders.
Above Third Gym: The Trainers like N that are fought one instant before a Fourth Gym level opponent are 7-B+, again high-end.
Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Gym Leaders: The trainers after this are backward scaled from Pryce Delibird, since there no other feats done by Pokémon on that level and i cannot make a trainer make big jumps as i wanted to show a sense of progression a trainer does through the journey [we did similar thing with dbz during the frieza to cell saga]. 7-A Fourth Gym and at least 7-A for those superior to them. High 7-A for Fifth Gym Leaders like Koga and at least High 7-A for those superior to them. 6-C for the Sixth and at least 6-C for those superior to them like Red.
Seventh Gym Leader: Seventh Gym Leader are High 6-C for Pryce Delibird that froze Lake Rage resulting in at most 6-C+ results since that is one of his Pokémon his full team should be at that level.
Above Seventh: Pokémon Main Bosses like Archer are mostly in this section since they are fought after that Gym and are not that weaker than Eight Gym Leaders, so at least High 6-C.
Eight Gym Leader: For last we Eight Gym Leaders like Giovanni, who is said to be the strongest Gym Leaderand easily defeats strong trainers without using half his strength. Currently every Final Stage Pokémon is scaled to this High 6-C+ feat, but the feat was not done by a common Charizard but by a Gold Rank one, which is one of the highest and in order to have it an explorer needed to have done many explorations missions and fought many strong opponents [this is why Lombre admired him], he also went alongside Blastoise in Mewtwo's Dungeon a place so dangerous even for capable explorer. Overall i think this feat should be for Eigth Gym Leaders level teams since their team is much stronger than Pryce Delibird.
- If the Final Stage Pokémon Profiles are not referred as wild ones, but trained ones then it's ok if not then they could be revised to the level when they evolve in the story while using the Gyms Scaling. Dugtrio earthquakes and Thunder are moves that are much higher than the Pokémon phisical power and those that are stronger at the time.
Note 3: Gym Leaders hides their true power since Brock only uses his regular Pokémon in Origins and not all of them which are likely stronger than the ones he used, Charen is comparable to Brock but has Pokémon which travelled with for his entire journey and went above the Eight Gym Leader. Celadon Cave can only be accessed as a Champion because the wild Pokémon there are incredibly strong.
Elite 4: Weaker Elite 4 like Lorelei and Bruno are even stronger than the Eight Gym since the trainer that defeated the Eight has to surpass the Victory Road which is a place filled with trainers that has Eight Badges since they are needed in order to enter the Victory Road, even then they can be problematic after the Victory Road, so i placed them at least High 6-C+.
Strongest Elite 4 and Champion: Most Leagues have an Elite 4 stronger than the previous with the exceptions of Unima and Kalos where each one is at least High 6-C+. Agatha is above Bruno but below Lance since the previous calc is 621.4956262 Gigatons since all of these are all much stronger than Giovanni, i placed them as at least High 6-C+, likely Low 6-B / likely Low 6-B. At last there is the Champion who is Low 6-B for being above the Elite 4 and two times stronger than Giovanni at minimun, another example that Charizard fought Articuno or Ash Pikachu took dow a Latios.
Post Champion: In HG/SS is it possible to fight the eight gym leaders that seems strange to say but they are above the Champion since they fought the Player after defeating the Champion Lance. Blue is at least Low 6-B because he was a Champion and kept training after the 3 years gap, is also superior to seven Low 6-B trainers.
Legends: This Class belongs to champions and trainers that managed to participate in World Tournament and in the Battle Tree since Red in HG/SS after three years of likely training he is shown by the gap of above 20 levels from Blue that he became much stronger than before hence at least Low 6-B, likely higher and likely became even stronger after 5 for the Word Tournament and 2 for the Battle Tree where the main bosses are at that tier from being paried to and seen fighting Red, i have heard about Relativistic Red, but i'm neutral about it sans that should be applied to those above him if accepted.
7] Why they are superior to Leggendary Pokémon, it's against the Discussion Rules?.
That discussion rule was made for the trainers to not jump and surpass strong leggendaries ranging from Lugia to Arceus, it's not a problem surpassing weaker trainers that use the Birds, Eons and Dogs seen in Emerald/Platinum Battle Frontier, in the Final Areas [In this game the final bosses are a Metagross and a Tyranitar stronger than the Shadow Dogs], here [Jedo and Jebol] and here to be commonly used by the Trainers, which are inferior to the main bosses like Frontier Bosses like Anabel, Lovrina or Palmer.
Anabel is unimpressed by a Champion by saying: Greetings... My name is Anabel. I am the Salon Maiden, and I am in charge of running the Battle Tower... I have heard several rumors about you... In all honesty, what I have heard does not seem attractive in any way... The reason I've come to see you... Well, there is but one reason... Let me see your talent in its entirety...
8] Are N and Ghetsis champion level?.
Yes, N defeated Champion Alder without problems and Ghetsis is fought after. Since Ghetsis team remained the same or slighty stronger in BW2, the Elite 4 became Low 6-B in the two years gap and Champion Iris as at least Low 6-B for being superior to them and Alder, she also defeated the latter.
9] Is Snattle High 6-A for having two Regi's?, is Brandon High 6-A for also having them?, is Ash High 6-A to 2-B for defeating Regice and Darkrai?, is Palmer 2-B for having a Cresselia and etc.
While i consider feat ranges from this to Ash Pikachu distracting Arceus [The infamous one that got knocked by a meteor and nealy killed by silver water] to oneshotting Merged Lusamine with Z Power to be outliers, i think the Regi's are High 6-A only in the Manga while they are Low 6-B in the Anime and Game to make that consistent with the scaling, same for Palmer Cresselia [I accept his High 6-A Regigigas however] and Tobias Darkrai since they are defeated by normal trained final stage Pokémon, and they should be much weaker than weakened Dialga/Palkia. Feats like Zinnia fighting Rayquaza or the 2-B trainers were discussed and rejected.
And the final question:
10] Is Ash Pikachu 6-B for travelling through many regions?
While the Amped Movie 20 one might be, through i'm neutral about it sans that he needs his own profile since the Movie 21 Ash is the same as the Movie 20. I say no since he has many anti-feats like he issupposed to be Champion level especially after winning the Orange Leugue and above it since he won the Battle Frontier sans for one Brai, but after it he struggled with Gary Electrivivre, who has become stronger than the League battle but that much seems strange after it Pikachu seems to revert to beginning level not because he lost to a Snivy after Paul and Tobias [Through he should have won despite Zekrom influence] but because he is seen struggling in every Gym Battle this trend likely startied from Johto [Should have oneshotted them rather than one time he got owned by a trained Magikarp] and going into a school [Through he fought again with Misty and Brock] to learn again after nearly defeating Alai a champion level opponent since he became one and etc.
- Rainbow Giovanni is at least 5-B with Mewtwo, RB Episode Lysandre at least 5-B with Xerneas/Yveltal, Ghetsis is 5-B with Reshiram/Zekrom, Maxie and Archie High 6-A with Groudon and Kyogre. Cyrus has at least Low 2-C Dialga/Palkia since Pokéballs limits them from their full power but they should be still be able to have mastery over an entire timeline as said here.
Note 1: This is my take and impression about many things in Pokémon about the revisions, i'm free to accept criticism if i made mistakes since this thread is mostly aimed to fix things. I know i changed some profiles but it was to show my version of the pages, through it was better if i made a blog rather than changing the pages that way, but i'm willing to take the consequences and fix them to a version liked by the users and admins.
In a regular Pokémon story there is supposed to be a scaling consistency since a regular trainer starts his journey in order to defeat eight gym leaders and take over the League. Each Gym is stronger then the previous and the Pok├¿mon League is even stronger.
Let's start with the trainers:
1] Why Sick Wally is 10-A and not 10-B?.
Normal Humans in the Pokémon World are phisically superior to us via their feats and is implied by reading the other books there in a past relationship with humans and Pokémon in the past. Humans are kind implied to be Half-Pokémo, which kinda explains the next stuff to a degree. So, 10-A for a not fully developed Wally as a kid. Some kid can develop physic powers and kids that will start to learn karate will become powerful, trainers trains along with their Pokémon.
2] Why trainers like Red are 9-C in AP?.
Red can take many heavy falls and emerging unscathed. Pokémon trainers can block and harm eachother as seen Here, Adventures and in Origins. In the Anime a random perso broke a 9-C door.
3] Why Origins Red has 9-B+, Ash and Manga Red have 8-C Durability.
Origins Red supposedly took an explosio, while Ash and Red took blasts of electricity.
However some trainers have inconsistent since incredibly high durability feats like Blue1and 2, Ash, 1 and 2, Red, Yellow, Zinnia , Maylene and etc. Team Rocket tried to stop a Dragonite in the first movie and surviving like a gag to every attack and robot explosion in each episode even from Elite 4/Champion trained Pokémon's. Different from the others, this one has a rather weak dura showing.
Some other trainers have also inconsistent since incredibly high combat speed and reaction speed ranging from Red dodging attack to Giovanni keeping track and easily predicting the movements of Mewtwo without problems.
Lastly there is Ryuga and his feats and the guy that can fight Powerful Pokémo without problems, the latter was likely amped.
- So, what i propose is to make Ash, Red and Team Rocket 9-C in Dura since its inconsistent for them even if it was seen many times in relation to all the other trainers.
4] Why is Bruno 9-B+?.
Bruno is superior to the Black Belts Martial which were said to break boulders aka 9-B feat and comparable to Bryce, who is 9-B+.
5] Now the question that comes is: why the Game, Origins, Generations, Manga and Anime Continuities are scaled with eachother?.
In an interview it was stated that most timelines follow the similar battles events and plot [Adventures has some differencies but the main characters are present], similar to each other also Origins, The Anime, Generations, Manga are Adaptations of the Game, which brought all of them in the first place and they have connections. Lastly not all things are similar since inconsistencies are presents as a long running series. The Shadow Triad travels at peak human speed, Ash was shown to be faster and stronger than normal humans and has shown to have feats that makes him Superhuman 9-B.
6] What about the Trainers scaling.
Now i will explain the trainers scaling since i felt the previous ratings were bad:
The Pokémon levels can be seen as a game mechanic, but i sees it as viewer on how much a Pok├¿mon is grown in the journey and not abuse them since of course HG/SS Red is not 2-B for surpassing Arceus Lv 80.
Beginning Trainer: A trainer at the start of his journey is 8-A+ thanks to this feat caused by a beginning charged Pikachu as stated by Oak in the first episode, which was initially comparable to other Pokémon such as Charmender, Horsey that can create tornadoes and etc. He can defeat Pidgey and Spearow thanks to his type advantage [Which will be mentioned by Lawrence 3┬░ while using elemental cannons against the birds]. This Pikachu in particular becomes unique and powerful later.
Trainer at his/her Beginnings: At least 8-A+ is for the trainers that are fought briefly before a First Gym Leader, and possess several 8-A+ Pokémon.
First Gym: All the First Gym Leader are Low 7-B because Falker has a Pidgeotto that scales to Volbeat Seismic Toss, also Totem Raticate.
Above First Gym: Those stronger than them are at least Low 7-B, and Low 7-B+ are for those like Gladion that are fought one instant before a second Gym Leader level opponent at the high-end.
Second Gym: Second Gym Leaders are 7-B because Totem School Wishiwashi is considerably superior to Totem Raticate, Whole Wishiwashi are said to be a threat to Wild [Not trained] Gyarados, which can destroy entire cities in a rage. There are trainers at this part that actually uses a Gyarados in D/P and S/M.
Note 2: The protagonist is not Tier 6 for catching a Salamence via SOS and i cannot make Misty Starmie High 6-C+ because the profile list it at that level, which i will explain later.
Third Gym: Third Gym Leaders are at least 7-B for being fought shortly after the second gym leaders.
Above Third Gym: The Trainers like N that are fought one instant before a Fourth Gym level opponent are 7-B+, again high-end.
Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Gym Leaders: The trainers after this are backward scaled from Pryce Delibird, since there no other feats done by Pokémon on that level and i cannot make a trainer make big jumps as i wanted to show a sense of progression a trainer does through the journey [we did similar thing with dbz during the frieza to cell saga]. 7-A Fourth Gym and at least 7-A for those superior to them. High 7-A for Fifth Gym Leaders like Koga and at least High 7-A for those superior to them. 6-C for the Sixth and at least 6-C for those superior to them like Red.
Seventh Gym Leader: Seventh Gym Leader are High 6-C for Pryce Delibird that froze Lake Rage resulting in at most 6-C+ results since that is one of his Pokémon his full team should be at that level.
Above Seventh: Pokémon Main Bosses like Archer are mostly in this section since they are fought after that Gym and are not that weaker than Eight Gym Leaders, so at least High 6-C.
Eight Gym Leader: For last we Eight Gym Leaders like Giovanni, who is said to be the strongest Gym Leaderand easily defeats strong trainers without using half his strength. Currently every Final Stage Pokémon is scaled to this High 6-C+ feat, but the feat was not done by a common Charizard but by a Gold Rank one, which is one of the highest and in order to have it an explorer needed to have done many explorations missions and fought many strong opponents [this is why Lombre admired him], he also went alongside Blastoise in Mewtwo's Dungeon a place so dangerous even for capable explorer. Overall i think this feat should be for Eigth Gym Leaders level teams since their team is much stronger than Pryce Delibird.
- If the Final Stage Pokémon Profiles are not referred as wild ones, but trained ones then it's ok if not then they could be revised to the level when they evolve in the story while using the Gyms Scaling. Dugtrio earthquakes and Thunder are moves that are much higher than the Pokémon phisical power and those that are stronger at the time.
Note 3: Gym Leaders hides their true power since Brock only uses his regular Pokémon in Origins and not all of them which are likely stronger than the ones he used, Charen is comparable to Brock but has Pokémon which travelled with for his entire journey and went above the Eight Gym Leader. Celadon Cave can only be accessed as a Champion because the wild Pokémon there are incredibly strong.
Elite 4: Weaker Elite 4 like Lorelei and Bruno are even stronger than the Eight Gym since the trainer that defeated the Eight has to surpass the Victory Road which is a place filled with trainers that has Eight Badges since they are needed in order to enter the Victory Road, even then they can be problematic after the Victory Road, so i placed them at least High 6-C+.
Strongest Elite 4 and Champion: Most Leagues have an Elite 4 stronger than the previous with the exceptions of Unima and Kalos where each one is at least High 6-C+. Agatha is above Bruno but below Lance since the previous calc is 621.4956262 Gigatons since all of these are all much stronger than Giovanni, i placed them as at least High 6-C+, likely Low 6-B / likely Low 6-B. At last there is the Champion who is Low 6-B for being above the Elite 4 and two times stronger than Giovanni at minimun, another example that Charizard fought Articuno or Ash Pikachu took dow a Latios.
Post Champion: In HG/SS is it possible to fight the eight gym leaders that seems strange to say but they are above the Champion since they fought the Player after defeating the Champion Lance. Blue is at least Low 6-B because he was a Champion and kept training after the 3 years gap, is also superior to seven Low 6-B trainers.
Legends: This Class belongs to champions and trainers that managed to participate in World Tournament and in the Battle Tree since Red in HG/SS after three years of likely training he is shown by the gap of above 20 levels from Blue that he became much stronger than before hence at least Low 6-B, likely higher and likely became even stronger after 5 for the Word Tournament and 2 for the Battle Tree where the main bosses are at that tier from being paried to and seen fighting Red, i have heard about Relativistic Red, but i'm neutral about it sans that should be applied to those above him if accepted.
7] Why they are superior to Leggendary Pokémon, it's against the Discussion Rules?.
That discussion rule was made for the trainers to not jump and surpass strong leggendaries ranging from Lugia to Arceus, it's not a problem surpassing weaker trainers that use the Birds, Eons and Dogs seen in Emerald/Platinum Battle Frontier, in the Final Areas [In this game the final bosses are a Metagross and a Tyranitar stronger than the Shadow Dogs], here [Jedo and Jebol] and here to be commonly used by the Trainers, which are inferior to the main bosses like Frontier Bosses like Anabel, Lovrina or Palmer.
Anabel is unimpressed by a Champion by saying: Greetings... My name is Anabel. I am the Salon Maiden, and I am in charge of running the Battle Tower... I have heard several rumors about you... In all honesty, what I have heard does not seem attractive in any way... The reason I've come to see you... Well, there is but one reason... Let me see your talent in its entirety...
8] Are N and Ghetsis champion level?.
Yes, N defeated Champion Alder without problems and Ghetsis is fought after. Since Ghetsis team remained the same or slighty stronger in BW2, the Elite 4 became Low 6-B in the two years gap and Champion Iris as at least Low 6-B for being superior to them and Alder, she also defeated the latter.
9] Is Snattle High 6-A for having two Regi's?, is Brandon High 6-A for also having them?, is Ash High 6-A to 2-B for defeating Regice and Darkrai?, is Palmer 2-B for having a Cresselia and etc.
While i consider feat ranges from this to Ash Pikachu distracting Arceus [The infamous one that got knocked by a meteor and nealy killed by silver water] to oneshotting Merged Lusamine with Z Power to be outliers, i think the Regi's are High 6-A only in the Manga while they are Low 6-B in the Anime and Game to make that consistent with the scaling, same for Palmer Cresselia [I accept his High 6-A Regigigas however] and Tobias Darkrai since they are defeated by normal trained final stage Pokémon, and they should be much weaker than weakened Dialga/Palkia. Feats like Zinnia fighting Rayquaza or the 2-B trainers were discussed and rejected.
And the final question:
10] Is Ash Pikachu 6-B for travelling through many regions?
While the Amped Movie 20 one might be, through i'm neutral about it sans that he needs his own profile since the Movie 21 Ash is the same as the Movie 20. I say no since he has many anti-feats like he issupposed to be Champion level especially after winning the Orange Leugue and above it since he won the Battle Frontier sans for one Brai, but after it he struggled with Gary Electrivivre, who has become stronger than the League battle but that much seems strange after it Pikachu seems to revert to beginning level not because he lost to a Snivy after Paul and Tobias [Through he should have won despite Zekrom influence] but because he is seen struggling in every Gym Battle this trend likely startied from Johto [Should have oneshotted them rather than one time he got owned by a trained Magikarp] and going into a school [Through he fought again with Misty and Brock] to learn again after nearly defeating Alai a champion level opponent since he became one and etc.
- Rainbow Giovanni is at least 5-B with Mewtwo, RB Episode Lysandre at least 5-B with Xerneas/Yveltal, Ghetsis is 5-B with Reshiram/Zekrom, Maxie and Archie High 6-A with Groudon and Kyogre. Cyrus has at least Low 2-C Dialga/Palkia since Pokéballs limits them from their full power but they should be still be able to have mastery over an entire timeline as said here.
