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Fate's always one step ahead. ovo
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Episode 6: Return of the Mewtwo: Mirage Mewtwo vs Reinhard Heydrich
- Thread starter TISSG7Redgrave
- Start date
- Status
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Mew2 for above reasons
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I don't see why Mirage Mewtwo would need to do any sort of reacting to use time travel. The instant the battle begins Xatu's time-scaning abilities will let him see he either can or needs to use time travel and speed is equalized anyway, which includes reactions and everything else. Also, since some are asking if M.M. would start off with this earlier, would Reinhard start out with distance ignoring moves?
In addition, theres still more stuff we can consider for Mirage Mewtwo.
He has the real ones powers so he could disable a very fair amount of abilities just by...well...saying it.
He can trace an an ability of Reinhards via Gardevoirs trace.
Smeargles sketch could be a thing. Or Mime Jr.s mimic or copycat. Not to mention me-first to copy his attacks (not haxes) even better. And if all else fails, M.M. can still use Dittos transform to gain them.
Wobbafets Counter can be considered.
The Unowns absurd reality warping too.
Manaphys Heart Swap if M.M. has the chance to switch souls.
This stuff.
In addition, theres still more stuff we can consider for Mirage Mewtwo.
He has the real ones powers so he could disable a very fair amount of abilities just by...well...saying it.
He can trace an an ability of Reinhards via Gardevoirs trace.
Smeargles sketch could be a thing. Or Mime Jr.s mimic or copycat. Not to mention me-first to copy his attacks (not haxes) even better. And if all else fails, M.M. can still use Dittos transform to gain them.
Wobbafets Counter can be considered.
The Unowns absurd reality warping too.
Manaphys Heart Swap if M.M. has the chance to switch souls.
This stuff.
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Disable, Reinhard has to use said move once before it can be disable. The lance ignores distance, not giving Mewtwo any time.
Trace. Are we sure he can trace an attack's ability? I don't think he can trace abilities like that seeing as he hasn't traced attacks, but special abilities like Intimidate or God forbid he traces Trace....ovo
He needs to see the move, dodge it and draw it before he can use sketch. Me first didn't exist in Gen lll. Transform leaves him wide open.
Counter doesn't stop conceptual attacks.
Reinhard has powerful Reality Warping as well.
Reinhard resists soul based skills.
Trace. Are we sure he can trace an attack's ability? I don't think he can trace abilities like that seeing as he hasn't traced attacks, but special abilities like Intimidate or God forbid he traces Trace....ovo
He needs to see the move, dodge it and draw it before he can use sketch. Me first didn't exist in Gen lll. Transform leaves him wide open.
Counter doesn't stop conceptual attacks.
Reinhard has powerful Reality Warping as well.
Reinhard resists soul based skills.
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So, even if Reinhard goes Spear throwing, he badly kills MM...and then the Mirage System makes a new one
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I don't think Type 8 saves you from a conceptual erase.
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If that's how it worked, Methuselah would come back via darkness.
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Think of it like this. If you conceptually erase my discarded fingernail, why would it affect me?
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Think of it like this, Methuselah was darkness and should exist as long as its concept existed, the spear oneshotted him anyways and he never came back.
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.....Cal......what???
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Also this isn't Reinhard vs Mirage System, this is Reinhard vs Mewtwo.
Why are people bringing up this "Unless you destroy the system, you don't win."
What? So putting the whole spear thing aside, how does this even work? If the system is on the battlefield, it can easily be destroyed. If it's made to be who knows where and unless it's destroyed it can keep producing more and more Mirage Mewtwos indefinitely and you need to kill them infinitely or destroy the thing to win, it's anything but fair.
Why are people bringing up this "Unless you destroy the system, you don't win."
What? So putting the whole spear thing aside, how does this even work? If the system is on the battlefield, it can easily be destroyed. If it's made to be who knows where and unless it's destroyed it can keep producing more and more Mirage Mewtwos indefinitely and you need to kill them infinitely or destroy the thing to win, it's anything but fair.
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Because by that reasoning we would also leave Rein's type 8 unrestricted, making a loss for him outright impossible.
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MM is an indirect extension of the Mirage System. Just like my discarded fingernail is an indirect extension of me. Iirc, and I could be wrong, Methuselah is not an extension of the darkness. Just reliant on it. It's a matter of "you can't kill me, because this exists." In MM's case, you ca kill him, but the "this" in this case will just make more. Just like if you destroy my discarded fingernail, I'll just clip a new one.
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Classification: God, Embodiment of DarknessThe real cal howard said:
Just because of this, Reinhard for Dragon's reasons. ovo
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@Fate. Major difference. One can literally not be surpassed by anyone of the tier. Even Batman could destroy the Mirage System. The system is on the battlefield. And this isn't any different than the numerous 2B matches that say that she just gets her data transported to a mew body on the moon. And that's considered fair.
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If the system is on the battlefield, Reinhard just busts it. Simple.
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Disable in anime can be used without the opponent having to use moves previously...
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Also I beg to differ that an immortality reliant on a system is better than one reliant on the Concept of Darkness itself.
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@Dragon
No he doesn't. Movie Mewtwo disabled the powers of dozens of pokemon, without ever seeing their moves, just by saying it. That part wasnt refrencing the literal move "disable".
Fair point here im not sure either.
As far as sketch goes if he sees it via precog it may be possible. And for Me First it doesnt matter really. Mirage Mewtwo has the original ones powers and he can use Me First. Even without it we still have Mimic, Copycat and Dittos transform.
Fair enough, but would Reinhard start out with that?
Yes but how good? Even a single unown can merge itself with the mind of a larvitar in the anime, manipulating its contents to make a random dimension. Imagine a whole group of them whom are still inferior to M.M.
As im sure Cal would ask ovo, how good is the resistance?
No he doesn't. Movie Mewtwo disabled the powers of dozens of pokemon, without ever seeing their moves, just by saying it. That part wasnt refrencing the literal move "disable".
Fair point here im not sure either.
As far as sketch goes if he sees it via precog it may be possible. And for Me First it doesnt matter really. Mirage Mewtwo has the original ones powers and he can use Me First. Even without it we still have Mimic, Copycat and Dittos transform.
Fair enough, but would Reinhard start out with that?
Yes but how good? Even a single unown can merge itself with the mind of a larvitar in the anime, manipulating its contents to make a random dimension. Imagine a whole group of them whom are still inferior to M.M.
As im sure Cal would ask ovo, how good is the resistance?
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1, stop ninja'ing me ovo.
2, he kinda has to know that's what he needs to do. Which might be too late.
3, is Methuselah the embodiment of darkness like Palkia is the embodiment of space? Because if so, I'm skeptical about the whole "needs to destroy the concept of darkness first" thing. If not, forget I said words. Regardless though, embodiment doesn't mean extension.
2, he kinda has to know that's what he needs to do. Which might be too late.
3, is Methuselah the embodiment of darkness like Palkia is the embodiment of space? Because if so, I'm skeptical about the whole "needs to destroy the concept of darkness first" thing. If not, forget I said words. Regardless though, embodiment doesn't mean extension.
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Oh, no way I'm asking that. It's Masadaverse. It's a crazy resistance. Probably makes Digimon look like Batman.
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@Fate
Because M.M. comes from the mirage system? And M.M. contains the system itself within its being?
And unless you have information manipulation no one will know targeting the mirage system (which isnt just a single device btw) will help beat this Mewtwo. So Reinhard isnt going directly for it without some knowledge of it.
Because M.M. comes from the mirage system? And M.M. contains the system itself within its being?
And unless you have information manipulation no one will know targeting the mirage system (which isnt just a single device btw) will help beat this Mewtwo. So Reinhard isnt going directly for it without some knowledge of it.
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Mewtwo for reasons above
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>> People being skeptical of Methuselah's darkness stuff and LLT killing this, of all things.
...
Whew.
@Professor Reinhard doesn't need to hit the system. The spear oneshotted a guy who relied on Darkness itself and killed in a way he couldn't possibly come back.
No matter what is said here, Mirage System is not a relevant argument to say MM survives conceptual stuff on the level of Longinus Lanze Testament.
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Whew.
@Professor Reinhard doesn't need to hit the system. The spear oneshotted a guy who relied on Darkness itself and killed in a way he couldn't possibly come back.
No matter what is said here, Mirage System is not a relevant argument to say MM survives conceptual stuff on the level of Longinus Lanze Testament.
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Why are we forgetting Muk's duplication? M.M. should have it, no?
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Actually as far as I'm aware this Mewtwo has 0 feats of resisting conceptual stuff. I really fail to understand from where some are bringing up this "survives LLT".
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I'm not saying the system would allow M.M. to come back from Conceptual attacks. I'm saying Reinhard isn't going to just straight up bust it or even know how to destroy it (even Oak or Ash didn't directly target the system, if it was that easy they wouldve done it from the start.)
Also if Reinhard tries to go for the system, then that gives M.M. a chance to time travel and kill him in the past.
Also if Reinhard tries to go for the system, then that gives M.M. a chance to time travel and kill him in the past.
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Also question:
Similar to how Zeed has a form of godly regen from regenerating from Moon, why doesn't M.M. have the same thing via reviving from Mirage Mew?
Similar to how Zeed has a form of godly regen from regenerating from Moon, why doesn't M.M. have the same thing via reviving from Mirage Mew?
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@Professor What I mean to say is that Reinhard would throw the spear at Mirage Mewtwo and that would erase it in a conceptual level.
Methuselah should come back as long as the Concept of Darkness existed.
The spear noped that, killed him once and he never could come back. Same would apply here.
If someone reliant on the concept of darkness could not come back after the spear despite said Type 8 immortality working on a conceptual level, it stands to reason that Mewtwo is not coming back either via Mirage System.
Methuselah should come back as long as the Concept of Darkness existed.
The spear noped that, killed him once and he never could come back. Same would apply here.
If someone reliant on the concept of darkness could not come back after the spear despite said Type 8 immortality working on a conceptual level, it stands to reason that Mewtwo is not coming back either via Mirage System.
SchroKatze
They/Them- 3,882
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Machina's Briah was going to erase Methuselah and the very concept of Darkness from the existence.
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According to Reinhard's profile, he doesn't usually use his spear right from the start of the fight...
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
SchroKatze
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Longinuslanze can do this.
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Yes but would Reinhard immediately start out with that from the start though?
Also, M.M. could get him to change his mind with fear inducement or just erase his memories.
Also, M.M. could get him to change his mind with fear inducement or just erase his memories.
SchroKatze
They/Them- 3,882
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Reinhard had mind resistance even when he was just an human. Now this is LEAGUES above.
Also, about the copy moves: M.M do not have a Soul to activate a Briah or even copy it.
Also, about the copy moves: M.M do not have a Soul to activate a Briah or even copy it.
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But why are we forgetting that broken duplication? QuQ ovo
Seriously, tho'. While Reinhard is having fun with at least two mewtwos, another two are time travelling.
Unless I'm not getting something.
Seriously, tho'. While Reinhard is having fun with at least two mewtwos, another two are time travelling.
Unless I'm not getting something.
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That's not his regen.....ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Reinhard wouldn't start with the spear but my vote goes for him on the basis of him lasting long enough to throw it anyways.
Also Reinhard has Mid-Godly regen. Pretty sure that would come back from a TP.
Also Reinhard has Mid-Godly regen. Pretty sure that would come back from a TP.
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By the way, Jirachi was going to get Fate Manipulation, right?
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Fate, this Reinhard isn't Acasual so I doubt that.
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@Professor /\SchroKatze said:
Only reason it wasn't added back (as far as I know) is because we're in the middle of the revision or something.
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