Elden Ring General Discussion

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wasn't Radahn's holding up the "stars" thing was done with gravity magic? Wouldn't that technically make the feat useless as it doesn't scale to physicals, and the fact it's not really combat applicable?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Wasn't Radahn's holding up the "stars" thing was done with gravity magic? Wouldn't that technically make the feat useless as it doesn't scale to physicals, and the fact it's not really combat applicable?

Yeah but the Tarnished can get hit by the gravity magic and survive right?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yeah but the Tarnished can get hit by the gravity magic and survive right?

Yep, you can take beams of gravity Magic and he can imbue his blades with gravity and the Tarnished can survive them

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Wasn't Radahn's holding up the "stars" thing was done with gravity magic? Wouldn't that technically make the feat useless as it doesn't scale to physicals, and the fact it's not really combat applicable?

Yeah, it was done by Gravity Magic but he can use gravity-based attacks and he wasn't just holding up stars (and he was doing so as an afterthought and while doing something else at the same time), he also altered constellations according to Sellen

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Are stars viewable from the Lands Between, or is every glowing dot in the night sky a small glowing meteor that somehow mimic the orbit of regular stars?

Sellen: Well, well... Seluvis is not a name I ever wanted to hear again... But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny.

Astrology is real in Elden Ring and the movement of constellation getting pausing prevented people's fate from altering or progressing. So if actual stars of burning gas are viewable from the Lands Between, it follows that Radahn controls multiple solar systems with his gravity magic.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

1. Rennala has no feat. Ranni is the one with the arguable feat.

"Of the last queen of Caria, Rennala of the Full Moon. And the majesty of the night she conjured."
Even if we are going to assume it's all an illusion (it isn't, and I already discussed that), that night was created by Rennala herself, stated by Ranni.

2. We have literally gone over the statements regarding meteors vs stars. It is relatively consistent that "stars" are then clarified to be "shooting stars". Furthermore, Radahn has a multiplicity of abilities where he uses gravity magic to summon meteors. Supporting information and whatnot.

Of course he is holding meteorites. But he is also holding the real stars. Like, a lot of statements reaffirms this, and just holding one doesn't mean isn't holding the other. I pointed out before how in the cinematic we can see the real stars beginning to shine again, so what is the problem here?

3. We see the impact site of one of Radahn's "stars" (which would invalidate the feat per our rules of KE anyways).

Ehm, how?

4. Finally. Ranni's feat is not clearly 4-A or whatever random tier people intend to ascribe to it. Ranni shows no obvious signs of having any feat, as people seem to be assuming "different boss arena = creating a new series of solar systems for whatever ******* reason". I am shocked by the amount of people who refuse to acknowledge the multiple references to meteors being equatable to stars, and yet see a phenomenon with literally zero explanation and nod their heads thinking "hm yes creation feat". This is one of the biggest problems with VS Battles logic. It can't be helped.

But why? The statements are pretty clear (and it's actually Rennala's feat. Quoting again: "and the majesty of the night she conjured"), and the evidence is there. Just saying it's not a feat debunks anything. And honestly, I find funny enough how most of your points to shoot down the feats are basically personal thoughts and things such as "oh but you are seeing this in a vsbw way so it's invalid," like if you are doing passive-aggressive hints towards the wiki you are administrating xd.
Speaking about 4-A stuff, you also have how Ranni's order is basically the night sky, and the power of the cosmos. She directly states that to you in her dialogue at Ranni's Rise after her questline. She basically opposes the Golden Order, and the Elden Ring, that also holds power over stars. I think in her ending she also did something with the stars, apparently, create them, but I can't confirm that yet.
And if that isn't enough (somehow), her Dark Moon is also capable of controlling the stars from what I've researched:
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ranni's+Dark+Moon

Legendary sorcery associated with the Carian queen.
Uses the caster as a vessel to incarnate a cold, dark moon, then sends it floating toward foes. The dark moon dispels all sorcery that touches it, and temporarily reduces magic damage negation for those it strikes.
The moon was encountered by a young Ranni, left by the hand of her mother, Rennala. What she beheld was cold, dark and veiled in occult mystery.

So Ranni basically has power over the Dark Moon.
And:
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+of+Nokstella

This legendary talisman is a treasure of Nokstella, the Eternal City.
Increases memory slots.
This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars.

That thing basically has control over countless stars.
And what meteorites has to do with anything? If you were talking about Radahn, then I can understand it. But Rennala's night has anything to do with meteorites. And while they has the same importance as stars, they aren't the same, and this is mostly a hierarchical comparison, instead of a physical size one. Btw, did someone really negated the comparison? I don't remember seeing anything of that tbh.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Agreed, the Rennala battlefield is NOT a 4-A proof, it's literally part of the illusion

I already gone through that with you. But as I said, even if that was an illusion, it was still created by Rennala. That Rennala, that has the same power as the real one, and so, it still scales. If you are going to say "but isn't real" then remember to who is supposing to imitate first, and please remember the words that was said throughout the process.
Funnily enough, after being defeated, Rennala says this:

Oh little Ranni, my dear daughter.
Weave thy night into being...

 

[ObberGobb]

I don't think a night sky is enough in this game to get a character to Tier 4. There are 3 things that indicate stars being smaller than irl:

1. Falling star being meteor sized. Yes, its possible not all stars are this way and this was different than most of them.

2. Astel is a star. It is very cleary not star sized. And yes, he is a malformed star so he wouldn't necessarily be star sized.

3. We see stars in the underground, like Siofra. Obviously these aren't real stars since it is underground.

Even though none of these are good enough evidence on their own, I think all three together pretty clearly show that the game is not intending for the "stars" to be real stars. It seems like a stretch to go "Ok, the stars Radahn were holding, that made Astel, and that we see underground are all fake. But there are definitely real ones!". I haven't seen any actual evidence of there being real stars, aside from that planet tweet which vaguely implies it (and I'm not even sure if a promotional tweet is a good justification). What in the games lore implied they are real stars?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I already gone through that with you. But as I said, even if that was an illusion, it was still created by Rennala. That Rennala, that has the same power as the real one, and so, it still scales. If you are going to say "but isn't real" then remember to who is supposing to imitate first, and please remember the words that was said throughout the process.
Funnily enough, after being defeated, Rennala says this:

And I still think this wasn't Rennala but Ranni who conjurered the other one, we hear Ranni talking saying basically"Stop hurting my mother" and she appears, Rennala is in no condition to fight before all of this
As for the quote below, I'll admit it gives me some doubt

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

And I still think this wasn't Rennala but Ranni who conjurered the other one, we hear Ranni talking saying basically"Stop hurting my mother" and she appears, Rennala is in no condition to fight before all of this
As for the quote below, I'll admit it gives me some doubt

Dude, Ranni only summons a replica of a sane Rennala, but she is the one who makes everything.
I insist:

Foul trespasser.
Send word far and wide.
Of the last queen of Caria, Rennala of the Full Moon.
And the majesty of the night she conjureth.

Even if we are going to assume she isn't creating anything there, it's pretty clear she at very least altered the night sky to become what is now.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I ******* love this community man.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I ******* love this community man.

I love Malenia's profile pic and Tarnished's user name lmao

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I don't think a night sky is enough in this game to get a character to Tier 4. There are 3 things that indicate stars being smaller than irl:

Yeah no.

1. Falling star being meteor sized. Yes, its possible not all stars are this way and this was different than most of them.

Key word: Falling stars. Remember that meteorites has the same hierarchy as stars, so it makes sense why they call them, not stars, but falling stars.

2. Astel is a star. It is very cleary not star sized. And yes, he is a malformed star so he wouldn't necessarily be star sized.

Dude you literally refuted yourself here ._.XD.
Ironically, Astel has a 4-A feat too.
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Remembrance+of+the+Naturalborn

Remembrance of Astel, Naturalborn of the Void, hewn into the Erdtree.
The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes.
A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. An falling star of ill omen.

3. We see stars in the underground, like Siofra. Obviously these aren't real stars since it is underground.

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Nox+Swordstress+Armor

Armor worn by swordstresses of the Eternal City.
These women are the personal guards of the nightmaidens, and wear silk capes.
Long ago, the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater Will, and were banished deep underground. Now they live under a false night sky, in eternal anticipation of their liege. Of the coming age of the stars. And their Lord of Night.

Their night is basically something created by the Greater Will to punish them, so obviously has a different context to the one created by Rennala, and the ones that are in the real sky.

Also I literally posted something that confirms how the cosmology in Elden Ring is quite the same as ours.

Even though none of these are good enough evidence on their own, I think all three together pretty clearly show that the game is not intending for the "stars" to be real stars. It seems like a stretch to go "Ok, the stars Radahn were holding, that made Astel, and that we see underground are all fake. But there are definitely real ones!". I haven't seen any actual evidence of there being real stars, aside from that planet tweet which vaguely implies it (and I'm not even sure if a promotional tweet is a good justification). What in the games lore implied they are real stars?

Nope. You just quoted out of context evidence that with the actual context in it literally refutes you. Stars of Ruin and many other things clearly puts solid evidence of the existence of real stars, and again, you need to in fact prove that the space isn't real or something like that, besides basically everything you put and was debunked by me. And why the tweet magically lost validit? If it's some fanmade stuff I can understand that, but it's literally from the official page. Saying it couldn't be considered would be a fallacy broU.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Astel having a tier 4 feat is something I agree with Hecatia

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Kinda neat how similar Radagon and Malenia look. They even have similar height, build and hair. They both also have only one regular arm Like father, like daughter I suppose.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I don't want to see that video because I still didn't finished the game.
Dude I'm so ******* close.
But I need to pass the Halightree.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Btw.
I don't know if this count as a hot take?
But I like the Godskins.
Like
The Apostle dude.
His moveset is glorious.
And the OST is also one of the best.

 

[ObberGobb]

Could you post all of the evidence for stars being star-sized again? I must have missed some of it. I would just like to see it all at once, because I am still on the fence.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Btw.
I don't know if this count as a hot take?
But I like the Godskins.
Like
The Apostle dude.
His moveset is glorious.
And the OST is also one of the best.

I liked the apostle one, when he's alone. Hell, when they are alone, they are mostly fun.

The duo though? Those dudes can go **** themselves, they just keep resurrecting and are annoying becuz they are both fast af. They are IMO the worst boss fight in the game.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

"Multiplayer will make the game easier for you"

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I liked the apostle one, when he's alone. Hell, when they are alone, they are mostly fun.

The duo though? Those dudes can go **** themselves, they just keep resurrecting and are annoying becuz they are both fast af. They are IMO the worst boss fight in the game.

I understand that, but when you know their patron it isn't thaaaaat bad tbh.
Also

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I've been seeing people use this dash ability for dodging? Does anyone know what that is?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I understand that, but when you know their patron it isn't thaaaaat bad tbh.
Also

Nah **** em. IMHO genuinely worst boss fight. Also, the image doesn't work for some reason.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Chale

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Nah **** em. IMHO genuinely worst boss fight. Also, the image doesn't work for some reason.

Oh, so I'm not the only one who can't make it work, good to hear

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Favorite Spirit? Mine is Luthel because she carried me throughout a considerable amount of bosses

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Are stars viewable from the Lands Between, or is every glowing dot in the night sky a small glowing meteor that somehow mimic the orbit of regular stars?

Sellen: Well, well... Seluvis is not a name I ever wanted to hear again... But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni. But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny.

Astrology is real in Elden Ring and the movement of constellation getting pausing prevented people's fate from altering or progressing. So if actual stars of burning gas are viewable from the Lands Between, it follows that Radahn controls multiple solar systems with his gravity magic.

So… Is ER just the ******* strongest Soulsborne game??

 

[ObberGobb]

Ok, you've pretty much convinced me

 

[ObberGobb]

I still think that the verse page needs a comprehensive justification for why they are real stars, because a lot of people (like me previously) won't be willing to treat them as such immediately.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I support that, plus, explain some concepts in-verse, like the Elden Ring, sorcery and incantations, the Frenzied Flame and the Dark Moon, etc.

 

[M3X_2.0]

No reason to not assume they are stars besides from Radahn feat. Everything else would be association fallacy.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

No reason to not assume they are stars besides from Radahn feat. Everything else would be association fallacy.

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that a guy called Starscourage Radahn would just be stopping… meteors.

 

[ObberGobb]

Where would the Elden Beast tier characters be? Just something like "At least 4-A" for being vaguely stronger than all the demigods together?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

M3X, didn't you say something about a 3-A Elden Beast a few pages ago?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yes

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What was the reasoning for it again? Me memory bad

 

[M3X_2.0]

Nothing, it wasnt literal. But in the end of the game, Elde Beast creates a starry sky to fight you.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Where would the Elden Beast tier characters be? Just something like "At least 4-A" for being vaguely stronger than all the demigods together?

Given that it's literally the incarnation of the ER and it literally uses the Ring itself during the fight, yes it's obviously vastly stronger

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Nothing, it wasnt literal. But in the end of the game, Elde Beast creates a starry sky to fight you.

Wich only confirms the Beast is stronger than the rest of the cast, save for the Tarnished

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Ok, you've pretty much convinced me

Kind of the same thing for me