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Elden Ring General Discussion

Though I should mention that the Giant Crusher does say that everyone in the Lands Between used to be Class 1, which is hilarious.
 
I plan on buying Elden Ring soon ( and probably a PS5 since the graphics will not be as great on my XBOX1 )

So I figured I would join this thread

Got some questions about some of the lore scaling that confuse me
 
So who's stronger, Marika or Godfrey?

From what I see on their profiles it is confusing

1. Are the Giant King and Fell God the same being? Or is it Fell God>Giant King>Giant Worshippers?


Which leads into my next question...


2. Godfrey killed the King of the Fire Giants ( seemingly without even having to use Hoarah Loux but either way whatever) who's minions alone are considered on par with Radagon/Marika

Defeated the king of the Fire Giants, whose minion is described by Alexander as "practically a god" on the level of Radagon of the Golden Order or Queen Marika herself.

So Godfrey>Fire Giant King>>>Minion=Marika/Radagon?


But then it also says that Marika was the one to kill the Fell God of the Fire Giants

wMAVASx.png


And if the King and God are two different beings

Then that would mean obviously the God is obviously stronger and thus she is superior to Godfrey by far

But then that makes the scaling chain -

Marika/Radagon>Fell God>>>Godfrey>King>>>Minion=Marika/Radagon???

Am I missing something here or what?
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
So who's stronger, Marika or Godfrey?

From what I see on their profiles it is confusing

1. Are the Giant King and Fell God the same being? Or is it Fell God>Giant King>Giant Worshippers?


Which leads into my next question...


2. Godfrey killed the King of the Fire Giants ( seemingly without even having to use Hoarah Loux but either way whatever) who's minions alone are considered on par with Radagon/Marika

Defeated the king of the Fire Giants, whose minion is described by Alexander as "practically a god" on the level of Radagon of the Golden Order or Queen Marika herself.

So Godfrey>Fire Giant King>>>Minion=Marika/Radagon?


But then it also says that Marika was the one to kill the Fell God of the Fire Giants

wMAVASx.png


And if the King and God are two different beings

Then that would mean obviously the God is obviously stronger and thus she is superior to Godfrey by far

But then that makes the scaling chain -

Marika/Radagon>Fell God>>>Godfrey>King>>>Minion=Marika/Radagon???

Am I missing something here or what?
Click to expand...
The scaling here is mostly based on Alexander's words, which in my opinion are good enough as support but shouldn't be used as absolute proof (Alexander never met Godfrey and certainly not Marika, it's more likely him describing the Giant as close to a god is based on his own assumptions, the closest to the divine he got is basically Rotten Radahn who is explicitly weaker than he was in his prime).

Also, regardless of the feat, Godfrey was definitely weaker than Marika. Marika was a full-blown goddess and it is by HER power than Godfrey could claim to be a Lord. And regarding the Fell God, it's not clear if the being Marika killed was a vassal, a weaker avatar or the God itself but considering the description, the latter is probably the best option
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
The scaling here is mostly based on Alexander's words, which in my opinion are good enough as support but shouldn't be used as absolute proof (Alexander never met Godfrey and certainly not Marika, it's more likely him describing the Giant as close to a god is based on his own assumptions, the closest to the divine he got is basically Rotten Radahn who is explicitly weaker than he was in his prime).

Also, regardless of the feat, Godfrey was definitely weaker than Marika. Marika was a full-blown goddess and it is by HER power than Godfrey could claim to be a Lord. And regarding the Fell God, it's not clear if the being Marika killed was a vassal, a weaker avatar or the God itself but considering the description, the latter is probably the best option
Click to expand...

Maybe he was comparing him to Prime Radahn if he knew if his strength? Since on his profile Alexander witnessed his defeat and everything

Likewise, Alexander had previously battled Radahn, and witnessed Radahn's defeat first-hand, thus, likening the Fire Giant to a god would suggest that Alexander believed the Fire Giant was vastly superior to Radahn

^Godfrey's AP justifications

So maybe the chain something like

Marika/Radagon>Fell God>>>Godfrey>Giant King>>>Minion>>>Prime Radahn ( And by extension Demigod tier in general. Which makes sense if Radahn is the strongest demigod and yet is weaker than "A God" like the Giant worshipper )
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
Maybe he was comparing him to Prime Radahn if he knew if his strength? Since on his profile Alexander witnessed his defeat and everything

Likewise, Alexander had previously battled Radahn, and witnessed Radahn's defeat first-hand, thus, likening the Fire Giant to a god would suggest that Alexander believed the Fire Giant was vastly superior to Radahn

^Godfrey's AP justifications

So maybe the chain something like

Marika/Radagon>Fell God>>>Godfrey>Giant King>>>Minion>>>Prime Radahn ( And by extension Demigod tier in general. Which makes sense if Radahn is the strongest demigod and yet is weaker than "A God" like the Giant worshipper )
Click to expand...
ehm I don't think that is really a good justification since alexander has never really seen prime radahn and actually flat out implied that the confrontation in the festival is their first meeting the whole:
"By the by, do you know for whom this festival is being held? Well, it is none other than General Radahn himself!
To think, I could face a great champion of the Shattering, a demigod in the flesh...
In truth I quiver at the thought, such is his frightful repute. But! The fear simply assures me the ordeal is worth undertaking!"

this implies that he has never met anything like radahn before hand and the only thing we can scale of this statement is that the rotting maddened and weakned radahn is weaker than the fire giant (or "minion" as you put it) so it'd be kinda like this


marika and radagon>= godfrey post return to the lands between (stated to have grown in strength and is comperable to the tarnished who is capable of killing the elden beast who in turn is greater than marika and radagon)>fell god>>pre loss of grace godfrey>Giant king>Prime radahn (the mightiest demi god of the shattering who later was able to match our tarnished for a brief amount of time prior to being impowered by miquella who fully asended to godhood in order to fully match the tarnished in battle)>>minion>> rotten radahn.
 
Does the King of Fire Giants actually exist. Godfry just fought the race of Fire Giants and killed all but one afaik. It could just be misplaced lore of the Storm King since that is right next to the Fire Giant.

Sir_sun_man said:
marika and radagon>= godfrey post return to the lands between (stated to have grown in strength and is comperable to the tarnished who is capable of killing the elden beast who in turn is greater than marika and radagon)>fell god>>pre loss of grace godfrey>Giant king>Prime radahn (the mightiest demi god of the shattering who later was able to match our tarnished for a brief amount of time prior to being impowered by miquella who fully asended to godhood in order to fully match the tarnished in battle)>>minion>> rotten radahn.
Click to expand...
Did Godfrey get stronger? If he did then yeah, the chain would look like:

To clear it up it goes: Elden Beast (4-A) ≥ Marika and Radagon ≥ Godfrey Post-Return > Fell God > Prime Radahn ~ Godfrey Pre-Return > The Last First Giant > Scarlet Rot Radahn

So Godfrey downscales from 4-A. Maliketh and possibly Placidusax/Bayle would also downscale from 4-A (I mean canonically we make a 4-A weapon from Placidusax's scale so he should probably scale).
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Does the King of Fire Giants actually exist. Godfry just fought the race of Fire Giants and killed all but one afaik. It could just be misplaced lore of the Storm King since that is right next to the Fire Giant.


Did Godfrey get stronger? If he did then yeah, the chain would look like:

To clear it up it goes: Elden Beast (4-A) ≥ Marika and Radagon ≥ Godfrey Post-Return > Fell God > Prime Radahn ~ Godfrey Pre-Return > The Last First Giant > Scarlet Rot Radahn

So Godfrey downscales from 4-A. Maliketh and possibly Placidusax/Bayle would also downscale from 4-A (I mean canonically we make a 4-A weapon from Placidusax's scale so he should probably scale).
Click to expand...
yeah the whole point of the lone jounrey of the tarnished as stated by queen marika is for them to grow stronger:
"In Marika's own words.
Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey."

the tarnished and godfrey seemed to have been the back up plan, send off these battle hardened warriors to far off lands where they would wage war and die (which did happen to godfrey as seen in the opening cinematic he was crucifed and all) so that they would grow in strength and return to the lands between to fix the shattering, which is what happens with multiple tarnished attaining godly levels of power.

So yeah Godfrey post return is at least somewhat stronger than he used to be hence why he is capable of fighting our tarnished (who at that point was already at the top of the packing order) while he himself didn't have the elden ring which was giving him a substential chunk of power when he was elden lord.


Also dono about radahn being as strong as pre return godfrey, like he is strong but not that strong.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
ehm I don't think that is really a good justification since alexander has never really seen prime radahn and actually flat out implied that the confrontation in the festival is their first meeting the whole:
"By the by, do you know for whom this festival is being held? Well, it is none other than General Radahn himself!
To think, I could face a great champion of the Shattering, a demigod in the flesh...
In truth I quiver at the thought, such is his frightful repute. But! The fear simply assures me the ordeal is worth undertaking!"

this implies that he has never met anything like radahn before hand and the only thing we can scale of this statement is that the rotting maddened and weakned radahn is weaker than the fire giant (or "minion" as you put it) so it'd be kinda like this


marika and radagon>= godfrey post return to the lands between (stated to have grown in strength and is comperable to the tarnished who is capable of killing the elden beast who in turn is greater than marika and radagon)>fell god>>pre loss of grace godfrey>Giant king>Prime radahn (the mightiest demi god of the shattering who later was able to match our tarnished for a brief amount of time prior to being impowered by miquella who fully asended to godhood in order to fully match the tarnished in battle)>>minion>> rotten radahn.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late response, went to go run an errand then eat lunch

I see. But wait, if he only knew of the weakened Radahn's power then why was that justification on his AP in the first place ( Godfrey that is )

Do you know what statement was used to confirm Alexander witnessed Prime Radahn's power?

Also if Post Training Godfrey is equal to Peak Tarnished who soloed the Elden Beast who is superior to the incest duo

Wouldn't that flat out make Godfrey then > to them? Rather than than the Duo being >= to him?
 
Sir_sun_man said:
So yeah Godfrey post return is at least somewhat stronger than he used to be hence why he is capable of fighting our tarnished (who at that point was already at the top of the packing order) while he himself didn't have the elden ring which was giving him a substential chunk of power when he was elden lord.
Click to expand...
If we want to separate Godfrey then, whenever we do the DLC CRT, we could do like: Elden Lord | Post-Shattering.

The former being "At least 7-A, likely High 4-C, potentially higher" | "At least 7-A, likely 4-A"
AnimesFreak2 said:
justification on his AP in the first place ( Godfrey that is )
Click to expand...
Godfrey's AP comes Elden Beast downscaling. The Fire Giant is evidence that he's > The Demigods.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If we want to separate Godfrey then, whenever we do the DLC CRT, we could do like: Elden Lord | Post-Shattering.

The former being "At least 7-A, likely High 4-C, potentially higher" | "At least 7-A, likely 4-A"
Click to expand...
seems about right, although I am not sure how we will do the whole elden lord thing since being an elden lord is being the channel for the gods power through the elden ring so would it be like

elden lord| tarnished| post shattering

or we'll we just skip that and go pre and post shattering for simplicity sake?
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Godfrey's AP comes Elden Beast downscaling. The Fire Giant is evidence that he's > The Demigods.
Click to expand...

No you misread what I read, I stated what I mean right beneath that

Why was the justification of the fire giant king and minion scaling being above radahn ( prime ) on his AP if what you said about Alexander only ever witnessing the weakened Demigod's power is legit?

Like what scan was used to prove this statement here ( the bolded part )

At least Mountain level, possibly Multi-Solar System level (Capable of fighting Endgame Tarnished, who could fight The Elden Beast. Defeated the king of the Fire Giants, whose minion is described by Alexander as "practically a god" on the level of Radagon of the Golden Order or Queen Marika herself. Likewise, Alexander had previously battled Radahn, and witnessed Radahn's defeat first-hand, thus, likening the Fire Giant to a god would suggest that Alexander believed the Fire Giant was vastly superior to Radahn)
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
I see. But wait, if he only knew of the weakened Radahn's power then why was that justification on his AP in the first place ( Godfrey that is )
Click to expand...
the page is outdated, it will be changed when everything post DLC is sorted.
AnimesFreak2 said:
Do you know what statement was used to confirm Alexander witnessed Prime Radahn's power?
Click to expand...
he never did.
AnimesFreak2 said:
Also if Post Training Godfrey is equal to Peak Tarnished
Click to expand...
he is not equal to the peak tarnished he can simply match them, since in the end he loses to them, basically put if tarnished is a 10 on the power scale, the elden beast is a 9.5 while merkia radagon and godfrey are all in that 8-9 scale with whom is stronger being up to debate, each one of them being able to challange and be comperable to the peak tarnished but in the end being weaker than them.
AnimesFreak2 said:
who soloed the Elden Beast who is superior to the incest duo
Click to expand...
that is actually debatable, the elden beast is likely stronger than freaky mic and radahn individually but together they might actually be stronger than the elden beast but again thats up to debate for later.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
the page is outdated, it will be changed when everything post DLC is sorted.

he never did.

he is not equal to the peak tarnished he can simply match them, since in the end he loses to them, basically put if tarnished is a 10 on the power scale, the elden beast is a 9.5 while merkia radagon and godfrey are all in that 8-9 scale with whom is stronger being up to debate, each one of them being able to challange and be comperable to the peak tarnished but in the end being weaker than them.

that is actually debatable, the elden beast is likely stronger than freaky mic and radahn individually but together they might actually be stronger than the elden beast but again thats up to debate for later.
Click to expand...

Alright thanks

Will ask more questions later if any come up 🗿
 
Sir_sun_man said:
the page is outdated, it will be changed when everything post DLC is sorted.

he never did.

he is not equal to the peak tarnished he can simply match them, since in the end he loses to them, basically put if tarnished is a 10 on the power scale, the elden beast is a 9.5 while merkia radagon and godfrey are all in that 8-9 scale with whom is stronger being up to debate, each one of them being able to challange and be comperable to the peak tarnished but in the end being weaker than them.
Click to expand...
The Elden Beast is probably 10 to honestly. Though there's the whole "the Beast is not at its prime" idea...
Sir_sun_man said:
that is actually debatable, the elden beast is likely stronger than freaky mic and radahn individually but together they might actually be stronger than the elden beast but again thats up to debate for later.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think they're stronger even when combined together. We don't even know if they're as strong as Marika but even if they are, friendly reminder the Beast had zero problem beating the living shit out of Marika and is clearly higher on the divine hierarchy. The Beast is not simply a divine being, it's the literal embodiement of the Elden Ring and concept of order. Endgame Tarnished is very likely the only one who can scale to the Beast and that's without the assumption we're fighting a weakened creature
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
The Elden Beast is probably 10 to honestly. Though there's the whole "the Beast is not at its prime" idea...
Click to expand...
I mean the only thing that can be argued is that its the elden ring itself and missing some runes would lead to it being weaker but here is the deal, the tarnished just beat the ever living shiТ out of an elden lord and a god and after all of that they went on to fight the elden beast and beat it, even if we say it is somewhat weakened by the lack of some of the runes (and far from all as we see the elden ring is still mainly intact) so the tarnished is still considerably above everyone in the setting (who isn't an outer god that is) elden beast included.
ArkhamDC06 said:
I honestly don't think they're stronger even when combined together. We don't even know if they're as strong as Marika but even if they are, friendly reminder the Beast had zero problem beating the living shit out of Marika and is clearly higher on the divine hierarchy. The Beast is not simply a divine being, it's the literal embodiement of the Elden Ring and concept of order. Endgame Tarnished is very likely the only one who can scale to the Beast and that's without the assumption we're fighting a weakened creature
Click to expand...
fair, although a god with a lord is still likely superior to marika by her lonesome (I am not counting radagon since same person and all that) as miquella went through the same process as marika and has his lord to fully channel that divine power which should put the duo above marika by herself, elden beast is debatable and as you pointed out it is higher on that divinity scale than miq and would be stronger when at full power, now if its stronger than a newly born god with its lord (which basically would mean that their current power is like that of an unshattered elden ring although) in its current weakened state due to the lack of 8 great runes is more up to debate, if we put it at its full power with all the runes back in place then yeah it should be above miq and radahn duo.


the tarnished is still substentially above all of them and the beast is likley the only thing that could rival the tarnished if it is fully restored.
 
Should the Elden Beast have a key for when it had all the runes still within it, thus granting it all the different powers like Destined Death, Malenia's healing rune, Godrick's across the board amp, etc?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Should the Elden Beast have a key for when it had all the runes still within it, thus granting it all the different powers like Destined Death, Malenia's healing rune, Godrick's across the board amp, etc?
Click to expand...
eah I mean yes and no? destined death yes, melenia's healing is a no as that little aspect is there due to scarlet rot and malenia's will mishaping the rune into something else, Godricks amp would simply be the same as the other runes which is: oh yeah it was more powerful with all of them in there.

oh and yeah many of the great runes had their effects mishapen or flat out changed by the demi gods that carried them, like rykard and his snake bull flat out carrupting the rune or the scarlet rot messing up both radahn's rune and malenia's, Oh and mogh with his blood bullshit carrupting his aswell, like the only runes that are not changed are that of godrick, morgott and renalla.
 
I mean there is also miquella but we don't know what his rune did other than resistence to mind control.
 
oh and btw when we finally get around to making the tarnished profile will we be adding the elden lord key since at that stage the tarnished should be substantially stronger (like an 11 on a 10 scale type stronger) as he would not only have access to all 8 of the runes we hold in game at the same time but also the rune of death and the rest of the elden ring which should make her massively stronger then he is prior to being elden lord

oh and the frenzied flame ending we really should cal this whole thing:
Elden-Ring-video-games-fire-2166383.jpg

the time frame is a little unclear but considering that the ring of torrent was still being melted away into ash its safe to assume that ALL THAT happened right as we became the lord of frenzy meaning the melting and shattering of the erdtree (a massive mountain sized magical tree that can resist any regular damage from mountain level characters) and the sky changing drastically as seen in the screen shot (this is in those tier 6 levels as far as I can tell just don't know where exactly)

oh and the time frame from what we know of is a couple of seconds as we see the tarnished become the lord of frenzy and the erdtree begins to be ingulfed in flame slowly at the start and as we fully awake the flame begins spreading rapidly leading to the result seen in the pic.
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
So who's stronger, Marika or Godfrey?

From what I see on their profiles it is confusing

1. Are the Giant King and Fell God the same being? Or is it Fell God>Giant King>Giant Worshippers?


Which leads into my next question...


2. Godfrey killed the King of the Fire Giants ( seemingly without even having to use Hoarah Loux but either way whatever) who's minions alone are considered on par with Radagon/Marika

Defeated the king of the Fire Giants, whose minion is described by Alexander as "practically a god" on the level of Radagon of the Golden Order or Queen Marika herself.

So Godfrey>Fire Giant King>>>Minion=Marika/Radagon?


But then it also says that Marika was the one to kill the Fell God of the Fire Giants

wMAVASx.png


And if the King and God are two different beings

Then that would mean obviously the God is obviously stronger and thus she is superior to Godfrey by far

But then that makes the scaling chain -

Marika/Radagon>Fell God>>>Godfrey>King>>>Minion=Marika/Radagon???

Am I missing something here or what?
Click to expand...
Marika, especially in her prime, is more powerful than Godfrey for sure but the gap probably isn't incomparable. Besides which Godfrey seemed pretty confident in becoming the Elden Lord again if he were to beat us. At that, there shouldn't be a big gap between the Tarnished when fighting Godfrey and the Tarnished when fighting Radabeast.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
oh and btw when we finally get around to making the tarnished profile will we be adding the elden lord key since at that stage the tarnished should be substantially stronger (like an 11 on a 10 scale type stronger) as he would not only have access to all 8 of the runes we hold in game at the same time but also the rune of death and the rest of the elden ring which should make her massively stronger then he is prior to being elden lord

oh and the frenzied flame ending we really should cal this whole thing:
Elden-Ring-video-games-fire-2166383.jpg

the time frame is a little unclear but considering that the ring of torrent was still being melted away into ash its safe to assume that ALL THAT happened right as we became the lord of frenzy meaning the melting and shattering of the erdtree (a massive mountain sized magical tree that can resist any regular damage from mountain level characters) and the sky changing drastically as seen in the screen shot (this is in those tier 6 levels as far as I can tell just don't know where exactly)

oh and the time frame from what we know of is a couple of seconds as we see the tarnished become the lord of frenzy and the erdtree begins to be ingulfed in flame slowly at the start and as we fully awake the flame begins spreading rapidly leading to the result seen in the pic.
Click to expand...
Isn't the whole point of the FF ending that the Tarnished is using the FF to literally end the world and return everything to the One Great? But considering Melina's threat, it's likely that it's an over-time kinda thing.

Also I'm pretty sure that wave of fire is supposed to be a sort of "Frenzied Flame Tree" to replace the Erdtree, ushering in the age of chaos, the end of all ages.
 
RinneItachi said:
Isn't the whole point of the FF ending that the Tarnished is using the FF to literally end the world and return everything to the One Great? But considering Melina's threat, it's likely that it's an over-time kinda thing.

Also I'm pretty sure that wave of fire is supposed to be a sort of "Frenzied Flame Tree" to replace the Erdtree, ushering in the age of chaos, the end of all ages.
Click to expand...
To me, the FF ending is about ending all of existence itself. If we go by the idea the GW is basically the equivalent of the Big Bang and the incarnation of the universe itself, then the FF is essentially the equivalent of the Big Crunch.
From what the ending shows us, the Erdtree is almost instantly burned and the LB follow closely. To me yeah, the greater, universal-ending effect is over time but the LB are pretty much literally roasted in an instant
 
RinneItachi said:
Marika, especially in her prime, is more powerful than Godfrey for sure but the gap probably isn't incomparable. Besides which Godfrey seemed pretty confident in becoming the Elden Lord again if he were to beat us. At that, there shouldn't be a big gap between the Tarnished when fighting Godfrey and the Tarnished when fighting Radabeast.
Click to expand...
Considering Radagon/the Beast is fought literally maybe a minute or two right after Godfrey, yeah the gape is probably not that high, still noticeable but not gigantic
 
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