Elden Ring General Discussion

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

According to Millicent once Malenia abandoned her pride she matched Radahn. The only difference at that point was Radahn expending energy on holding the stars and that seemingly just doesn't take a notable fraction of his power.

That doesn't mean Malenia matches Radahn in strength.
The Radahn vs Malenia fight is STR vs DEX:

• Radahn was the strongest demigod of the Shattering (Source: Jerren, Iji, Blaidd and the Starscourge Heirloom) and he was so strong that his Post-Starscourge self only used his strength and gravity magic in combat (Source: Radahn's swords in the DLC).
• Malenia was undefeated in combat (Source: Malenia, Gideon, Winged Sword Insignia), only the Tarnished was able to match her skill (Source: Malenia), and her skill was unparalleled (Source: Prosthesis-Wearer Heirloom) before her fight against the Tarnished.
• Radahn's talisman (Starscourge Heirloom) raises Strength and Malenia's talisman (Prosthesis-Wearer Heirloom) raises Dexterity.

Radahn is the most stronger one, Malenia is the most skilled one, but both are equal overall because the fight ended in stalemate.

The scaling doesn't work when the PC is more or less forced to fight them all back to back in a boss rush. If the DLC boss is 4-A that means all of Farum Azula's bosses also have to be 4-A.

So Gideon is possibly 4-A and stronger than most of the bosses?

 

[Qawsedf234]

That doesn't mean Malenia matches Radahn in strength.

LS maybe, but we're talking about AP. Malenia when abandoning her pride verbatim matched Radahn's measure.

So Gideon is possibly 4-A and stronger than most of the bosses?

Gideon considers himself weaker than a God and believes no mortal can match him. So by his own words he removes himself from 4-A scaling.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

According to Millicent once Malenia abandoned her pride she matched Radahn. The only difference at that point was Radahn expending energy on holding the stars and that seemingly just doesn't take a notable fraction of his power.

Ehhhhhhh, I'm pretty sure by "abandoning her pride", she meant Malenia using the rot bomb on Radahn

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That doesn't mean Malenia matches Radahn in strength.
The Radahn vs Malenia fight is STR vs DEX:

Skill can't carry an opponent alone. It's clear that Malenia would have to have comparable levels of AP in order to be deemed a threat to Radahn.

Nevermind that Ranni refers to Malenia, alongside Radahn, as the strongest of the Demi-Gods.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

LS maybe, but we're talking about AP. Malenia when abandoning her pride verbatim matched Radahn's measure.

Undoubtedly in AP/Striking/Lifting. Malenia matched Radahn thanks to her superior skill, and Radahn matched Malenia thanks to his gravity magic and superior strength. Malenia downscales to Prime Radahn in AP/Striking.

Gideon considers himself weaker than a God and believes no mortal can match him. So by his own words he removes himself from 4-A scaling.

Fair, but Gideon probably knows that we defeated Maliketh, and when we beat Gideon the latter still thinks that we can't beat a God. So Maliketh is probably not in the 4-A scaling.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Skill can't carry an opponent alone. It's clear that Malenia would have to have comparable levels of AP in order to be deemed a threat to Radahn.

True, that's why I think Malenia downscales to Radahn.

Nevermind that Ranni refers to Malenia, alongside Radahn, as the strongest of the Demi-Gods.

Yes, but that doesn't contradict the fact that Radahn is physically stronger than Malenia. "mightiest" here probably refers to overall power, and it is consistent because the Radahn and Malenia fight ended in a stalemate.

 

[Planck69]

Ehhhhhhh, I'm pretty sure by "abandoning her pride", she meant Malenia using the rot bomb on Radahn

Yeah, this is exactly what happens. Dunno how anything else could be inferred.

In any case, I personally think Malenia downscales but not really by anything meaningful. The gap itself is pretty small if it exists.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

How high into High 4-C are the Elden Ring characters again?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Also as a question I guess, where exactly are we putting enemies for the DLC scaling wise? For the base game we basically just used region scaling and boss logic. So it went

• Fallingstar Beast < Godrick / Godefroy < Rennala
• Then after that it was Radahn scaling. So Rot Radahn (7-A, High 4-C) < Morgott ~ Mohg ~ Rykard < Malenia ~ Prime Radahn < Goddess Malenia ~ Gideon ~ Fire Giant etc
• Then we had back scaling from the Elden Beast. So Elden Beast (4-A) ≥ Radagon = Marika ~ Godfry ~ Maliketh
• But we still have missing notable people like Placidusax for the scaling

With the DLC though we know that Mohg and Radahn are required to be defeated, so the bosses are at least 7-A to High 4-C. But I'm not sure how to handle the 4-A scaling. The final boss is straight forward since its basically just Spoiler = Marika scaling which makes them 4-A. But I don't know how that'd backscale to other bosses or effect other scaling.

I guess this is my idea: Gideon's dialouge implies a canon order of events:

So we have a canon chain of events in the base game:

• Tarnished makes it to the Snowfield before lilting the Forge of Giants
• Tarnished makes their way to the Haligtree and then fights Malenia, defeating her
• Tarnished makes their way to Mohg's palace
• Tarnished defeats Mohg and finds Miquella's body
• Tarnished activates the Forge of Giants, resulting in Gideon going to talk with the Two Fingers (discovering how they are broken) and leaving the Hold

So my proposal for canon would be one of two things:

• Haligtree -> Mohgwyn Palace -> DLC -> Fire Giant -> Farum Azula -> End Game
• Haligtree -> Mohgwyn Palace -> Fire Giant -> DLC -> Farum Azula -> End Game

In my view based on Alexander's dialogue:

It would be option one, since comparing it to a God is a rather extreme statement, especially since by this point Alexander has seen Radahn and possibly Rykard, along with a vast amount of other warriors and thinks none of them would stand a remote chance at beating the Fire Giant other than the Tarnished. So once the Tarnished finishes the DLC and approaches the final area, they move from "7-A, likely High 4-C" to "At least 7-A, likely 4-A".

With that in mind the scaling would basically go:

• Tier 8 to High 7-C: Fallingstar Beast < Basic Tarnished < Adult Fallinstar Beast < Godrick < Rennala ~ Basic Spirit Ashes < Advanced Tarnished
• Base Game 7-A, possibly High 4-C: Rot Radahn < Certain High End Tarnished like Okina/Vyke ~ Morgott ~ Mohg ~ Rykard < Malenia ~ Prime Radahn
• At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C, potentially far higher: Gideon (Believes himself incomparably lower than a God) < Goddess Malenia < Messmer < Romina
• At least 7-A, possibly 4-A: The Last Fire Giant < Dragonlord Placidusax ~ Bayle ~ Godfrey ~ Maliketh ≤ Marika/Radagon ~ DLC Boss < Elden Beast

Some open items would be:

• Where would we put the Dancing Lion, Rellana, Gaius, Metyr, the Scadutree Avatar, Midra and the Putrescent Knight on the chain?
• What do we do with Bernahl if a profile is ever made?

Anyways what is everyone's thoughts on the above?

Metyr should probably be comparable to the Elden Beast I guess since like the Beast it's a direct envoy of the GW. I could argue that Midra can also be around that level since he's explicitly called a Lord, even if a failed one, as in the context, that just means he couldn't fully channel the Frenzied Flame but is still comparable in power

About the Dancing Lion, we should take note that in the trailer, Messmer was able to casually kill three of them (there's a shot in the trailer with three of them impaled on giant versions of his spear and Messmer being visibly unharmed)

Excluding Godrick and Godefroy, all demigods are between "7-A, possibly High 4-C" and "At least 7-A, possibly High 4-C".

Btw, why would Goddess Malenia would be below Messmer and Romina? For the last two, I honestly think they should be relatively comparable, yeah Romina is the boss you need to defeat to reach the portal to Enir Ilim but Messmer's flames are necessary to burn the shadow roots.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

LS maybe, but we're talking about AP. Malenia when abandoning her pride verbatim matched Radahn's measure.

Malenia matched Radahn without abandonning her pride. Abandonning her pride means unleashing the Scarlet Rot which she did only after they had fought for an extended period of time, her gold arm had been shattered and Radahn was on his knees too tired to throw her off of him

Gideon considers himself weaker than a God and believes no mortal can match him. So by his own words he removes himself from 4-A scaling.

I want to say I have doubts about it since he's fought right before Godfrey and can still kill the Tarnished in his boss fight but whatever, he's probably in the High 4-C range

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Also, who's dealing with who regarding the new profiles? I'v put dibs on Messmer, Rellana and Midra at least and I'm interested in the Greater Will, Ymir, Metyr, Florissax and Fire Knight Hilde and to an extent Leda and Ansbach but who will do bosses like Romina, Bayle, Gaius, Consort Radahn and Miquella?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Metyr should probably be comparable to the Elden Beast I guess since like the Beast it's a direct envoy of the GW.

Elden Beast is the embodiment of Order in TLB. Metyr just reciveved messages from time to time. I don't know if she'd be comparable.

Btw, why would Goddess Malenia would be below Messmer and Romina?

They're fought after her in addition to Messmer's power being dangerous enough for Marika to seal and Romina also being a Chosen Saint of Rot. Though I guess comparable may fit more than superior.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

How high into High 4-C are the Elden Ring characters again?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Elden Beast is the embodiment of Order in TLB. Metyr just reciveved messages from time to time. I don't know if she'd be comparable.


They're fought after her in addition to Messmer's power being dangerous enough for Marika to seal and Romina also being a Chosen Saint of Rot. Though I guess comparable may fit more than superior.

At least for Romina I'd say comparable since the full Goddess of Rot would be above her (I tend to think she would be the equivalent of Marika or close enough)

 

[Qawsedf234]

How high into High 4-C are the Elden Ring characters again?

I think my calc is still accepted. So 114.6x above baseline for the start of the chain or about 1/8th of baseline 4-B.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

You'd need to clip perfect guarding it for it to be used as calc evidence. The most it'd do though is maybe bump it to entire arm 45 degrees though.

aight I have finished cliping the defelecting of each of the light speed attacks, Ima cut out the unneccesery stuff (the rest of the fight) and send them here in a sec.

If ya want the whole clips I have 8 runs (and clips) that I did against radahn I can send in discord or the like.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Just realized Messmer summons his "main snake" in his second phase by opening a black portal. So he might have Portal Creation

 

[Sir_sun_man]

welp can't cut them so I guess I will just slap the whole clip into imgur and give time stamps.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Quick question, I intend to make a profile for Ymir and I wondered. As an NPC, he sells various spells like Glintblade Phalanx, Carian Phalanx and Retaliation and Miriam's Vanishing but he doesn't use them in battle. Can I give them these abilities along with the spells he actually uses in his boss fight? Also, aside from Explosion Manipulation, how would Fleeting Microcosm translate in terms of abilities?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can I give them these abilities along with the spells he actually uses in his boss fight?

Imo you can give it to him. It could just be a gameplay limitation with giving him to many spells rather than a lore limitation.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Imo you can give it to him. It could just be a gameplay limitation with giving him to many spells rather than a lore limitation.

Alright great. What about the Microcosm spell?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

ok here we go I finished the clips @Qawsedf234 could ya check em out?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

oh btw I kept the audio for each clip (cept the last) each one of those lit Ding sounds is a confirmation of a succesful deflect.

 

[Qawsedf234]

ok here we go I finished the clips @Qawsedf234 could ya check em out?

Lol, that random imgur comment.

But like I said before the movements made doesn't really do anything different other than maybe justify using the entire arm for a 45 degree movement.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Lol, that random imgur comment.

woops made it public it seems, gonna fix that real quick.

But like I said before the movements made doesn't really do anything different other than maybe justify using the entire arm for a 45 degree movement.

what about the other dashes though, we can cal those and see what they will come out to

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I think my calc is still accepted. So 114.6x above baseline for the start of the chain or about 1/8th of baseline 4-B.

How a feat involving only meteorites is High 4-C???
The bright things we see moving in the sky are meteorites dude, not stars.

If possible, a calculation is necessary for Radahn which affects all visible stars in the night sky, because Radahn's feat involves meteorites AND stars, both.

 

[Qawsedf234]

How a feat involving only meteorites is High 4-C???

I feel like you didn't read the calc, since the end accepted was the assumption that they're all stars. Since them being all meteors is covered by Radahn's 7-A rating. This is for the alternate High 4-C key.

The bright things we see moving in the sky are meteorites dude, not stars.

Everything that moves are the objects Radahn held in stasis. The stars he held in place are those that controlled fate for Sellia and the Demigods, which isn't every star in the sky but only certain ones.

If possible, a calculation is necessary for Radahn which affects all visible stars in the night sky, because Radahn's feat involves meteorites AND stars, both.

It'd just be 4-B, since the best case situation is 2,000 to 10,000 stars visible in any one area. But going by the animation, Radahn wasn't holding every star in place since plenty objects don't move afterwards.

 

[Qawsedf234]

With the knowledge that Rennala sister was called Rellana. I wonder if the third sister of the three sisters was Renna since everyone in TLBs decided that all their children should have freakishly similar names. So you get things like:

• Rennala + Rellana + Renna
• Messmer + Melina + Malenia + Miquella
• Radahn + Rykard + Ranni
• Godwyn + Godrick + Godefroy + Godfrey
• Darian + Devin
• Others I'm probably forgetting

Also the Grafted Scions and all the dead Demigods are seemingly from Godwyn's family line. Which means that the dude had an hilariously large family of like 6-8 Demigod Children/Grandchildren + Godefroy + the Grafted Scions + All the Horned Omens in the swears (since Nobleborn Omens do not have their horns chopped off).

 

[Planck69]

Missed opportunity to not fight Malarkey, Bow of Messmer.

 

[RinneItachi]

The Dancing Lion is a bit weird scaling wise. I expected it to at least downscale from Messmer but clearly not. It has no particularly solid scaling. But it should be noted that it can easily create actual storms mid-combat. It could be scaled just based on the fact that it's in the DLC which requires beating Mohg and Radahn yet still isn't easy for the Tarnished to defeat by that point in the game. It should also scale above any of the Hornsent due to being a divine being from their perspective.

Metyr should be rated as a god tier for sure by virtue of her placement in the hierarchy and cosmic abilities. She's probably stronger than or at least on par with the Elden Beast but we can't know for sure. She should probably be given black hole creation if we accept that one move as a black hole.

Messmer is 100% one of Marika's strongest children. Marika was outright scared of Messmer's abilities and deliberately sealed away the Abyssal Serpent. Her abandoning him in the Land of Shadow and effectively removing him from history is probably so that people in the Lands Between don't know she ordered a literal genocide in a land barely anyone knows of, but her sealing his power directly is a very clear indication of strength. In my personal headcanon I think he's on par with Malenia phase-to-phase. As-in equal in base forms and equal in Goddess of Rot and Base Serpent forms respectively. But that's just headcanon. That aside, worth noting that Messmer's kindling burned the Sealing Tree which is a feat of its own.

Oh, I just found this. So apparently the throne in this image is in fact the same as the throne's at the Erdtree/Morgott's arena, which is used to symbolize that he lives on equal terms with his siblings. Neat.

As for Romina, It's a bit hard to say, but considering that she quite literally just took the Scarlet Rot and used it as her power, she's pretty strong. I'd imagine she has to be at least Demi-God level but can't really say for certain. She has no real scaling.

Bayle obviously just straight up scales to Placidusax. (CURSE YOU BAYLE)

The Lord of Frenzied Flame...do we think Midra should scale to the endgame Tarnished on the Lord of Frenzied Flame route? Or is that a stretch? He should at the very least be a god tier just by virtue of being the direct host of the Frenzied Flame, but I don't know about any specific placement.

Prime/Promised Consort Radahn seems to be a god-tier based on multiple obvious factors and at the very least he should scale far above his base game self.

Miquella could have 2 keys but the first would just be plain "Unknown" for all physical stats. The second key for his godly state would probably also be "Unknown" followed by a placement for his holy magic. He has no physical strength likely due to his spectral form and lacking of a body, but he can still physically interact with the world so it's not like he's a ghost. His holy attacks should be considered god-tier (Marika level) for obvious reasons.

Scadutree Avatar is a bit weird. The Scadutree is blatantly inferior to the Erdtree yet the Scadutree Avatar is far superior than any Erdtree Avatar. Still I think it would be fair to say it's about the same level.

Commander Gaius has no real scaling, nor feats or statements, I don't even know where to put him if he even deserves a profile.

Same with the Putrescent Knight.

 

[Planck69]

The Dancing Lion is a bit weird scaling wise. I expected it to at least downscale from Messmer but clearly not. It has no particularly solid scaling. But it should be noted that it can easily create actual storms mid-combat. It could be scaled just based on the fact that it's in the DLC which requires beating Mohg and Radahn yet still isn't easy for the Tarnished to defeat by that point in the game. It should also scale above any of the Hornsent due to being a divine being from their perspective.

At worst, they could be given some scaling off of creating storms.

Metyr should be rated as a god tier for sure by virtue of her placement in the hierarchy and cosmic abilities. She's probably stronger than or at least on par with the Elden Beast but we can't know for sure. She should probably be given black hole creation if we accept that one move as a black hole.

Messmer is 100% one of Marika's strongest children. Marika was outright scared of Messmer's abilities and deliberately sealed away the Abyssal Serpent. Her abandoning him in the Land of Shadow and effectively removing him from history is probably so that people in the Lands Between don't know she ordered a literal genocide in a land barely anyone knows of, but her sealing his power directly is a very clear indication of strength. In my personal headcanon I think he's on par with Malenia phase-to-phase. As-in equal in base forms and equal in Goddess of Rot and Base Serpent forms respectively. But that's just headcanon. That aside, worth noting that Messmer's kindling burned the Sealing Tree which is a feat of its own.

Phase-to-phase can work honestly. Marika was aware of the Rot yet even that didn't spook her as much as Messmer's serpent did. I did hear that Miyazaki called him an Empyrean in an interview but don't take my word for it at all.

As for Romina, It's a bit hard to say, but considering that she quite literally just took the Scarlet Rot and used it as her power, she's pretty strong. I'd imagine she has to be at least Demi-God level but can't really say for certain. She has no real scaling.

Romina can technically be fought as like, the first boss due to how non-linear the DLC is so she can't really scale anywhere I think. Maybe just "should be at least as strong as Mohg"?

Bayle obviously just straight up scales to Placidusax. (CURSE YOU BAYLE)

The Lord of Frenzied Flame...do we think Midra should scale to the endgame Tarnished on the Lord of Frenzied Flame route? Or is that a stretch? He should at the very least be a god tier just by virtue of being the direct host of the Frenzied Flame, but I don't know about any specific placement.

He's canonically too weak to become the Lord of Frenzied Flame so he'd downscale at most I think.

Commander Gaius has no real scaling, nor feats or statements, I don't even know where to put him if he even deserves a profile.

He was apparently Radhan's rival in his youth as far as their gravity sorcery training went.

Same with the Putrescent Knight.

Yeah, he's scaleless. Technically you can't get there until you get to Shadow Keep but neither remembrance boss in Gravesite is mandatory.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

The Lord of Frenzied Flame...do we think Midra should scale to the endgame Tarnished on the Lord of Frenzied Flame route? Or is that a stretch? He should at the very least be a god tier just by virtue of being the direct host of the Frenzied Flame, but I don't know about any specific placement.

no he specifically does not scale to end game franized lord tarnished as his description specifically states he was to weak to become a lord unlike us, I'd say a safe bet is that he is at least as strong as the demi gods possibly stronger but I doubt we can give him more than that due to the item descriptions.

Prime/Promised Consort Radahn seems to be a god-tier based on multiple obvious factors and at the very least he should scale far above his base game self.

I mean he is basically elden lord when we fight him (ya know a god and a lord rememberence and all that) so he is by default god-tier.

Miquella could have 2 keys but the first would just be plain "Unknown" for all physical stats. The second key for his godly state would probably also be "Unknown" followed by a placement for his holy magic. He has no physical strength likely due to his spectral form and lacking of a body, but he can still physically interact with the world so it's not like he's a ghost. His holy attacks should be considered god-tier (Marika level) for obvious reasons.

ye

Scadutree Avatar is a bit weird. The Scadutree is blatantly inferior to the Erdtree yet the Scadutree Avatar is far superior than any Erdtree Avatar. Still I think it would be fair to say it's about the same level.

fair enough

Commander Gaius has no real scaling, nor feats or statements, I don't even know where to put him if he even deserves a profile.

I mean we get the lore of him studying under the same alabastar lord as radahn and them apperantly being good rivals in their youth, I'd say that is not enough to give him the potential high 4-C stuff but he would at least be high 7-C for being able to rival a young radahn.

Same with the Putrescent Knight.

that one yeah he doesn't really have that much lore around him.

 

[RinneItachi]

At worst, they could be given some scaling off of creating storms.

Phase-to-phase can work honestly. Marika was aware of the Rot yet even that didn't spook her as much as Messmer's serpent did. I did hear that Miyazaki called him an Empyrean in an interview but don't take my word for it at all.

Romina can technically be fought as like, the first boss due to how non-linear the DLC is so she can't really scale anywhere I think. Maybe just "should be at least as strong as Mohg"?

He's canonically too weak to become the Lord of Frenzied Flame so he'd downscale at most I think.

He was apparently Radhan's rival in his youth as far as their gravity sorcery training went.

Yeah, he's scaleless. Technically you can't get there until you get to Shadow Keep but neither remembrance boss in Gravesite is mandatory.

I think that's best. if they at least made Messmer struggle we could downscale but it seems like he just stomped them.

I agree though maybe only as a "likely" rating. And it would make sense if he was an Empyrean, actually I'm gonna make a separate reply about that in a sec.

Yeah she's a bit weird but I think that's a fair rating.

You're right. That somehow went over my head. In that case I wouldn't even argue for downscaling but he should still be above Mohg and whatnot.

Oh I didn't know that.

Tbh no one cares about that boss I wouldn't even give him a page lmao.

 

[RinneItachi]

And it would make sense if he was an Empyrean, actually I'm gonna make a separate reply about that in a sec.

Theory crafting:

So, Miquella and Malenia are two Empyreans who are the direct offspring of Radagon and Marika. Melina is extremely implied to be a child of Marika, and she is possibly the Gloam Eyed Queen who was an Empyrean as well. For a while now we've had speculation that Melina is in fact related directly to Miquella and Malenia, due to the whole butterfly thing. The Smoldering Butterfly in itself has very particular wording that really does suggest its relevance to Melina. And now we know that Messmer is 99% likely also a direct sibling of Melina. And we know that Messmer is from Radagon and Marika due to his red hair.

Now, what do all of these 4 characters have in common? They have some kind of locked power within them that they can unleash, at least 2 different forms, they are all the offspring of Marika and Radagon (only possibly Radagon in Melina's case, sadly her hair color doesn't really help to indicate it) which means they are the offspring of a pure god (since Radagon IS Marika, of course) with no "mortal" blood in the mix, so-to-speak, and 3 of them if not all 4 of them are "cursed" by their unique powers. Melania with her rot, Messmer with his serpent and perhaps the flames as well, Miquella with his eternal youth and ability to allure, and potentially Melina with her Destined Death. Considering the implications, all of these curses/gifts might have been given from Outer God's or similar beings. Even if you wanna bring Ranni into the mix, who was born from a god and a champion of equal strength to said god, she very much seems to have some kind of outer influence from the moon which might be an Outer God.

I think it's very likely that Malenia, Melina, Miquella, Messmer, and Ranni are all in the same category of power and that all of them are Empyreans, again assuming that Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen.

Very interesting lore here. I really hope it gets expanded upon.

 

[RinneItachi]

no he specifically does not scale to end game franized lord tarnished as his description specifically states he was to weak to become a lord unlike us, I'd say a safe bet is that he is at least as strong as the demi gods possibly stronger but I doubt we can give him more than that due to the item descriptions.

I mean he is basically elden lord when we fight him (ya know a god and a lord rememberence and all that) so he is by default god-tier.

ye

fair enough

I mean we get the lore of him studying under the same alabastar lord as radahn and them apperantly being good rivals in their youth, I'd say that is not enough to give him the potential high 4-C stuff but he would at least be high 7-C for being able to rival a young radahn.

that one yeah he doesn't really have that much lore around him.

Yeah other dude mentioned that I agree.

Fair enough.

.

.

Yeah just learned that.

Fr.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The Lord of Frenzied Flame...do we think Midra should scale to the endgame Tarnished on the Lord of Frenzied Flame route? Or is that a stretch? He should at the very least be a god tier just by virtue of being the direct host of the Frenzied Flame, but I don't know about any specific placement.

Eh idk. The Tarnished only unleashed the Frenzied Flame's full power once they place the FF rune on Marika I think?

It's pretty clear FF Tarnished doesn't have that their full power up until the ending.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

As for Romina, It's a bit hard to say, but considering that she quite literally just took the Scarlet Rot and used it as her power, she's pretty strong. I'd imagine she has to be at least Demi-God level but can't really say for certain. She has no real scaling.

I think that's fine enough to list her as Mohg level.

I feel the same goes for Rellana?

 

[RinneItachi]

Eh idk. The Tarnished only unleashed the Frenzied Flame's full power once they place the FF rune on Marika I think?

It's pretty clear FF Tarnished doesn't have that their full power up until the ending.

He doesn't. And Midra wouldn't scale regardless because he explicitly did not have the abilities to become a true lord.

 

[RinneItachi]

I think that's fine enough to list her as Mohg level.

I feel the same goes for Rellana?

Sure. She should definitely be Demi-God level regardless of Mohg by virtue of being Rennala's sister and being arguably superior to Rennala.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

What about the Dragon Priestess? She apparently was a crucial aspect in Placidusax's battle with Bayle according to her heart's description. She's also an Ash Summon if you do things properly so she can throw hands currently too.