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EE Revision
- Thread starter Sevil Natas
- Start date
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pretty sure it's a false equivalence, even with soul + EE you die. but, EE is absolute destruction, far beyond molecular destruction, and therefore, it should at least resist soul destruction, and a bit like saying that if I resist something that atomizes souls then it is not resistance to soul destruction
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That's what I said befote on this thread, just becouse you can resist Soul destruction EE, It doesn't mean that you would be able to resist any other forms of Soul manipulation, for example, getting your Soul suck up, sealed, puppetry controled, Mind controled, etc...
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Following the argument in the OP erasing just the body would simply be a form of matter manipulation then.
Erasing body and soul would be matter + soul manip.
Erasing body, soul and concept would be matter+soul+concept manip.
You can no doubt do that, in fact we have done so before EE was created, but since we have the page now that separation makes no sense.
Now, what resistances are concerned, resisting EE of the soul can give soul manip resistance (or most specifically resistance to techniques that damage/erase the soul) and resisting soul manip based soul destruction techniques can help you resist EE of the soul.
Heck, EE for the longest time had a note that one should not just list "resistance to EE" on profiles, because it's needlessly vague. Don't even know why that was removed.
Anyway, giving everyone who resists a soul destruction technique resistance to EE of the soul specifically could be done, but doesn't have to as it is redundant as long as resistance to soul manip is already on the profile.
As long as it's clear by the profile how stuff works there is no need to standardize that (especially not in a way that induces redundancy).
Erasing body and soul would be matter + soul manip.
Erasing body, soul and concept would be matter+soul+concept manip.
You can no doubt do that, in fact we have done so before EE was created, but since we have the page now that separation makes no sense.
Now, what resistances are concerned, resisting EE of the soul can give soul manip resistance (or most specifically resistance to techniques that damage/erase the soul) and resisting soul manip based soul destruction techniques can help you resist EE of the soul.
Heck, EE for the longest time had a note that one should not just list "resistance to EE" on profiles, because it's needlessly vague. Don't even know why that was removed.
Anyway, giving everyone who resists a soul destruction technique resistance to EE of the soul specifically could be done, but doesn't have to as it is redundant as long as resistance to soul manip is already on the profile.
As long as it's clear by the profile how stuff works there is no need to standardize that (especially not in a way that induces redundancy).
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I do kinda agree with the OP, but I agree with DT that it's a bit redundant, since even if we did include it it wouldn't be more broadly applicable.
I don't really care which way profiles do it, as long as they're clear about the actual resistance feat.
I don't really care which way profiles do it, as long as they're clear about the actual resistance feat.
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The resistance shouldn't include Soul manipulation as a whole, only resistance to Soul destruction, if the character hasn't shown resistance yo other forms of Soul manipulation.
Wokistan
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I'm not so sure about the resistances scaling over like that, becuase we don't treat it as such on the physical end of things. EE resistance isn't infinite durability and durability isn't an EE resistance. If we are to remain consistent with how we treat stuff physically, soul EE wouldn't really equate to a resistance to wacking the soul and vice versa.
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Time Eater (Dr. Eggman) has History Erasure
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I agree with DontTalkDT. Also, some people are confused about EE and Soul Manipulation. Just a heads up, Soul Destruction is a very limited form of "Soul Manipulation". Even if someone resists soul destruction, it doesn't grant them resistance to soul extraction or soul control by default.
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- Thread starter
- #91
will respond later
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I agree with this. If there aren't any other showings of resisting soul manipulation then they shouldn't have a solid resistance to soul manipulation and only have resistance to one form of it, which is soul destruction in this case.
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- Thread starter
- #93
no, my argument is that if you can resist something that erases your soul, you should resist soul manip because that already falls under soul manip
well looking at the matter manip page it doesnt fit the bill for EE at all since all of it is just manipulating matter & energy, nothing about destroying or erasing energy/matter,
im okay with it remaining that way as long as soul / concept EE are regarded to what i suggested in the OP
im okay with this
then that should be noted in the soul manip page,no? because the current page is very vague about this, and it pretty much generalizes those abilities to one
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depending if the 3 types get accepted, then probably would be on of the 3 types
but let's not derail
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What others have said. Listing it as soul manip, and resistance to it, is redundant at best. Even if we do list it as resistance to soul manip, it's still only resistance to EE, it won't protect you against someone punching your soul or pulling your soul out of your body or absorbing your soul, etc.
This all cycles back to 90% of problems like these magically go away if you just explain the abilities on the profile. It's much more important what you write as a description with a scan than it is to link to a page made for generalization on the wiki intended for slight convenience.
This all cycles back to 90% of problems like these magically go away if you just explain the abilities on the profile. It's much more important what you write as a description with a scan than it is to link to a page made for generalization on the wiki intended for slight convenience.
Vietthai96
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The only solution here i think is, we give a more detail description on character who can resist EE that could destroy even soul so people could understand how high the resistance is. We have an example with Goku: Resistance to Existence Erasure (Withstood the Destruction Energy Ball of a God of Destruction in Super, which could erase anything, even souls from existence, and warped the World of Void). So atleast people who read the profile could understand that atleast, this guy could resist getting his soul destroyed
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This is seems simple now, well it is actually.
This seems more like battleboarding aspect of hax or its interpretation rather than something that even needs modifications on Powers and abilities page.
But the problem is never have I once seen someone with Body+Soul EE resist soul destruction from opponent in Vs battle.
Its literally not allowed, you mention such a prospect and you get shot down and snubbed out.
If most people were really so lenient and understanding of the issue we wouldn't have this CRT now nor would Goku have so much problem against Soul destroying opponent in Vs Battle.
It looks like this need to be dealt with in the same way you made thread for Smurf hax re-interpretation , to address vs batteling threads rather than something that affects profiles in anyway.
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I mean, you can always add a little more text on a profile if it is really necessary. Nobody forces you to just write "Resistance to Existence Erasure". If you feel like it's necessary for a certain case you can always add a little extra, like "Resistance to Existence Erasure (Can resist erasure of his body and his soul)" or something along those lines to clarify.
Although, one should also consider that not every act of resisting EE that targets body and soul is necessarily resisting soul attacks. Like, say someone has a gun that shoots EE bullets targeting both body and soul. If the bullet never penetrates the body, it wouldn't even get to touch the soul. So that would be a case where you resist EE erasing souls but not soul attacks.
In any case, point is that you can always add explanations on profiles if you believe they are necessary. There's a reason we have like 4 sections of the profile one can do that in.
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I want to point out.
EE works more on deleting the target, instead of damaging the target. By that, it wouldnt give resistance to soul damage because the target resisted EE soul based.
I agree with the creation of Types of EE. And i wouldnt assume Plot EE >>>> any Type of EE, because it heavily depends on how the verse uses said Plot EE.
EE works more on deleting the target, instead of damaging the target. By that, it wouldnt give resistance to soul damage because the target resisted EE soul based.
I agree with the creation of Types of EE. And i wouldnt assume Plot EE >>>> any Type of EE, because it heavily depends on how the verse uses said Plot EE.
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- Thread starter
- #102
just so we're clear, we're treating the soul erasing aspect of Soul EE as limited soul manip?
if so im fine with it being closed
if so im fine with it being closed
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I think that it was deemed unnecessary, given that it is only a specific usage that EE already covers.
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- #106
im not saying to re edit every profile that has EE, im saying that we treated it that way in VS threads, cus rn we dont
for example if character A has Soul EE, and character B has Low Godly + resistance to soul manip that destroys souls,
then Character A can erase Bs soul and win even though B has resistance to that, that's how it is currently treated.
and i disagree with that FRA
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- Thread starter
- #109
destroying a soul physically is no different from erasing it. destroying a massless non physical entity like a soul, would be effectively erasing it, since its not physical and cant get destroyed in conventional fations, you cant vaporise or atomise a soul for example since it doesnt have any atoms, or physical particles now i know in fiction there are cases where ppl pierce or physically harm other ppls soul, that is a special case, im talking about instant soul destroying attacks in this case
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While they sound the same in practice, but at the core they are diferent, the confusion happens because we cant exactly explain the diferences, but to summ up: EE deletes you instead of doing any type of damage. Its like, the writter came and removed you from the history, he didnt damage you, just removed.
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Well some characters can apparently "punch" souls and do stuff like that. Even if it doesn't make much sense, it's clearly different than erasing it, and should be treated as such.
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- #112
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As far as insta-soul destruction hax is concerned, which is not done in some weird way like punching it to oblivion, etc. I personally think resistance to EE (which covers the soul) should cover cases like that. Since they are the same thing as far as the soul aspect is concerned.
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Gonna have to disagree with this RESPECTFULLY. For one reason if we apply this massive standard we'll end with people asking why can't this apply to mind manip resistance, matter resist, etc. Next having your soul manip to it being erased are two widely incomparable situations in most series.
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Dude bleach characters are literally made of spiritual particles. And their attacks vaporize stuff or spiritual beings.
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thats just npi.
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I think the types should be like this
Type 1: Physical Erasure: Able to erase physical objects or people.
Type 2: Spiritual Erasure: Able to erase one's soul or spiritual energies
Type 3: Temporal Erasure; The ability to erase one's temporal existence. Can range from one timeline to all timelines. Also erasing parts of time within a timeline fit this as well.
Type 4: Conceptual Erasure: Erasing the concept of something or someone.
Type 5: Narrative Erasure; Characters with this type of erasure can erase aspects of the plot such as: characters, the characters personality, parts of the story, the entire story.
The types don't have to scale above each other respectively, BUT I think we can agree erasing someone from the plot encompasses all types of erasure as the character holds all those existence (exlcuding ofc the people who dont have those existence like people without souls or concepts).
Type 1: Physical Erasure: Able to erase physical objects or people.
Type 2: Spiritual Erasure: Able to erase one's soul or spiritual energies
Type 3: Temporal Erasure; The ability to erase one's temporal existence. Can range from one timeline to all timelines. Also erasing parts of time within a timeline fit this as well.
Type 4: Conceptual Erasure: Erasing the concept of something or someone.
Type 5: Narrative Erasure; Characters with this type of erasure can erase aspects of the plot such as: characters, the characters personality, parts of the story, the entire story.
The types don't have to scale above each other respectively, BUT I think we can agree erasing someone from the plot encompasses all types of erasure as the character holds all those existence (exlcuding ofc the people who dont have those existence like people without souls or concepts).
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If you wanna say so sure, but that's still gonna end up being different from EE.
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