EE Revision

[Sevil Natas]

currently in the wiki we treat EE that erases soul & body as just more potent EE, imo that is not correct.
i started a Q&A thread regarding this topic, but it failed to give me convincing answers,
so Im starting a CRT to further discuss this issue

The Revision :
EE that Erases Soul & Body should be treated as EE + Soul manipulation.
currently we treat abilities & normal attacks that destroy souls as just Soul Manipulation + whatever that ability is
Example : Fire that incinerates souls is treated as just fire manipulation + soul manipulation
i dont know why we dont do that same for EE because erasing a soul is the same as destroying it via Soul manipulation, since in both cases the soul gets reduced to nothing


if you resist Soul manipulation you should resist your soul being erased via EE, and if you resist Soul EE you should resist regular soul manipulation
because said soul erasure is just soul manipulation

to quote the soul manipulation page :
"Soul Manipulation is the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications."
those other applications include outright destroying souls, which is no different from what Soul EE does

if we do treat conceptual EE the same way we treat Soul EE then this revision if it passes should apply to that too


Basically everyone who uses Soul & Body EE should get their EE replaced with Soul Manipulation along with Regular EE
everyone who resists said EE should Get Resistance to EE + Soul Manipulation
the same way goes for conceptual EE, that should net you EE + Conceptual Manipulation(whatever concept type they're erasing)

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I can agree in principle, Soul+Body EE can be EE+Soul manip ,but for EE resistance can we give soul resistance as a general one or only soul destruction resistance? I can arguements for both.

 

[manu_zarri]

Agree.

If you resist physical EE then you don't have resistance to soul hax
if you resist to EE + Soul then you have resistance to soul hax

 

[Fixxed]

I think we must have tier for Existence erasure

Example:
- low EE: completely Erasure a body
-Mid EE : completely Erasure a Body+ soul
-High EE: completely erasude A body+soul+Mind

 

[Rez]

We should give existence erasure tiers that will help
Type 1. Matter or body erasure
Type 2. Soul and matter/body erasure
Type 3. History Erasure
Type 4. Narrative Erasure
Type 5. Concept Erasure

 

[Rez]

Type 1 should just give ee and type 2 should give ee alongside soul destruction and npl

 

[Rez]

Type 4 should give plot manipulation and type 5 concept destruction/manipulation

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

We should give existence erasure tiers that will help
Type 1. Matter or body erasure
Type 2. Soul and matter/body erasure
Type 3. History Erasure
Type 4. Narrative Erasure
Type 5. Concept Erasure

I thought narrative erasure was greater than concept erasure.

 

[Rez]

I thought narrative was greater than concept.

Then let's make narrative Erasure type 5

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

Could we use this?
https://debatesjungle.fandom.com/wiki/Existence_Erasure

Edit: It seems there's a thread similar to this except that it only talks about types of existence erasure.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/existence-erasure-types.54967/

 

[manu_zarri]

We should give existence erasure tiers that will help
Type 1. Matter or body erasure
Type 2. Soul and matter/body erasure
Type 3. History Erasure
Type 4. Narrative Erasure
Type 5. Concept Erasure

History errasure isn't better than type 2, it just errase the body from past present and future. nothing more

 

[Sevil Natas]

I think we must have tier for Existence erasure

Example:
- low EE: completely Erasure a body
-Mid EE : completely Erasure a Body+ soul
-High EE: completely erasude A body+soul+Mind

We should give existence erasure tiers that will help
Type 1. Matter or body erasure
Type 2. Soul and matter/body erasure
Type 3. History Erasure
Type 4. Narrative Erasure
Type 5. Concept Erasure

literally explained in OP how that doesnt involve EE at all
how does any of these help with the issue?
Soul erasure is just Soul manip
type 3 is just 4D EE
Conceptual Erasure is conceptual manip
the narrative stuff could be more potent EE or plot manip, idk

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

literally explained in OP how that doesnt involve EE at all
how does any of these help with the issue?
Soul erasure is just Soul manip
type 3 is just 4D EE
Conceptual Erasure is conceptual manip
the narrative stuff could be more potent EE or plot manip, idk

It's to differentiate the different types of EE but it doesn't mean that they won't get their respective abilities like soul erasure will get you soul manipulation as well as EE.

 

[Rez]

History errasure isn't better than type 2, it just errase the body from past present and future. nothing more

No it makes it so the targeted person never existed in the first place

 

[manu_zarri]

No it makes it so the targeted person never existed in the first place

it's just an extension of type 1 since it influence only phyiscal part, you resist to it with acausality type 1

 

[Epsilon_R]

I'm pretty sure erasing someone from history would be superior to just erasing his body and soul

Unless he just erases the body and nothing else

 

[Rez]

it's just an extension of type 1 since it influence only phyiscal part, you resist to it with acausality type 1

Then we can just write in the description of type 1 that a stronger version of this ability allows for Erasure throughout the entirety of time

 

[Rez]

I'm pretty sure erasing someone from history would be superior to just erasing his body and soul

Yeah I think the same way

 

[manu_zarri]

I'm pretty sure erasing someone from history would be superior to just erasing his body and soul

Unless he just erases the body and nothing else

it isn't errasing from history is just errasing the body.

Then we can just write in the description of type 1 that a stronger version of this ability allows for Erasure throughout the entirety of time

but it's not superior to soul + EE

 

[Bernkastelll]

Narrative Erasure is not always better than concept erasure unless further context is provided, like, a verse that threats plot deepier than Concept

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

We should give existence erasure tiers that will help
Type 1. Matter or body erasure
Type 2. Soul and matter/body erasure
Type 3. History Erasure
Type 4. Narrative Erasure
Type 5. Concept Erasure

I can get behind this...or the other one King of Sao suggested

 

[manu_zarri]

The types should be.

Type 1 "Phsyical": Physical errasure
Type 2 "Non-Physical": Mind, Sould or any equivalent to them errasure
Type 3 "Conceptual": Information, Concept or any equivalent/superior aspect to them errasure

 

[Bernkastelll]

The types should be.

Type 1 "Phsyical": Physical errasure
Type 2 "Non-Physical": Mind, Sould or any equivalent to them errasure
Type 3 "Conceptual": Information, Concept or any equivalent/superior aspect to them errasure

I agree with this

 

[Teezar]

it isn't errasing from history is just errasing the body.

but it's not superior to soul + EE

From past,present and future.... yep it's definitely higher than just soul and Body EE.

 

[Cosmic_King_of_SAO]

History Erasure would make it so the soul never existed in the first place.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I fail to understand how history erasure is better than soul and body EE, history erasure is just like... having ur body erased in past, present and future

 

[manu_zarri]

From past,present and future.... yep it's definitely higher than just soul and Body EE.

it's no near to be higher, just because it's temporal dosen't mean it's metaphysical. temporality is still physical

 

[Bernkastelll]

History Erasure would make it so the soul never existed in the first place.

Why does it envolve Soul?

 

[manu_zarri]

History Erasure would make it so the soul never existed in the first place.

Assumption, just like thinking EE is always EE + Soul

Soul and Mind aren't physical, they are unbound by that

 

[Teezar]

I fail to understand how history erasure is better than soul and body EE, history erasure is just like... having ur body erased in past, present and future

Yes and it will make it you never existed in the first place.

 

[manu_zarri]

Yes and it will make it you never existed in the first place.

Assumption, just like thinking EE is always EE + Soul

Soul and Mind aren't physical, they are unbound by that

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yes and it will make it you never existed in the first place.

yes, the body, why does it envolve soul? History Erasure is one of the most contextless things that I ever saw

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

History Erasure would make it so the soul never existed in the first place.

Maybe some more distinction is needed between History Erasure and Temporal Erasure.
While one just erases accross past, present and future.. history one erases you so thoroughly that entire history changes and adapts itself to make your entire presence null.

 

[God900]

Ok, but if said characters resists EE and soul manipulation, It doesn't mean that said character would be able to resist his/her soul being suck up from his body.

We should note that they only have resistance to Soul destruction, but not other types of Soul manipulation, if said character hasn't shown any other forms of resistance to said technique.

For example, Goku from DBS, Who was resistance to EE, wouldn't be able to resist his Soul being controled or his Soul being suck up, or his Soul sealed.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Ok, but if said characters resists EE and soul manipulation, It doesn't mean that said character would be able to resist his/her soul being suck up from his body.

We should note that they only have resistance to Soul destruction, but not other types of Soul manipulation, if said character hasn't shown any other forms of resistance to said technique.

For example, Goku from DBS, Who was resistance to EE, wouldn't be able to resist his Soul being controled ir his Soul being suck up, or his Soul sealed.

thats true.

 

[manu_zarri]

Ok, but if said characters resists EE and soul manipulation, It doesn't mean that said character would be able to resist his/her soul being suck up from his body.

We should note that they only have resistance to Soul destruction, but not other types of Soul manipulation, if said character hasn't shown any other forms of resistance to said technique.

For example, Goku from DBS, Who was resistance to EE, wouldn't be able to resist his Soul being controled ir his Soul being suck up, or his Soul sealed.

EE is absolute destruction.

 

[Teezar]

it's no near to be higher, just because it's temporal dosen't mean it's metaphysical. temporality is still physical

Soul +body EE = erase a character soul and body at that particular time,so they must obviously still exist in the past.
History EE= all future/past timelines and present of the character will be erased from existence.

 

[Bernkastelll]

EE is absolute destruction.

Yeah, but resisting Soul EE doesnt means that u can resist soul absorption

 

[Sevil Natas]

It's to differentiate the different types of EE but it doesn't mean that they won't get their respective abilities like soul erasure will get you soul manipulation as well as EE.

which is redundant since if this passes soul EE will be regular EE + Soul manip ( cus Soul Destruction = Soul Erasure ) Conceptual Erasure will be regular EE + Conceptual manip for the same reasons, the other types are just potency of said EE

Basically everyone who uses Soul & Body EE should get their EE replaced with Soul Manipulation along with Regular EE
everyone who resists said EE should Get Resistance to EE + Soul Manipulation
the same way goes for conceptual EE, that should net you EE + Conceptual Manipulation(whatever concept type they're erasing)

From past,present and future.... yep it's definitely higher than just soul and Body EE.

the problem with this is, its just more Potent Physical EE, like sure you can erase something physical from History, but that doesnt mean, that their soul is affected again you would need soul Manip or NPI in some cases to affect souls

 

[God900]

EE is absolute destruction.

But we shouldn't give the character resistance to every type of Soul manipulation if they haven't displayed any.