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Edo Tensei Itachi (Naruto) vs. Kakine Teitoku (To Aru Majutsu No Index)

@Whis

Since when has Itachi used Izanagi as an Edo Tensei body? Plus he's never even demonstrated the ability to use it.
 
@Lord

Prove it. Only three people have used Izanagi in canon, Madara, Obito, and Danzo.
 
LordWhis said:
The target of Koto does not know that it has been affected, therefore, the clone will never be jammed or destroyed in any way until the koto has spread throughout the network.
Click to expand...
leaving aside if it would work, if he affect one clone the other see the network sees the disturbance and remove it, the clone may not reliaze he is under controll but the network will
 
The kotoamatsukami that it's not available to Edo Itachi, only to the living version, as I mentioned twice already?

Even if Edo Itachi had it, as you've already been told a few times each clone has his own independent mind subordinated to a higher consciousness, they can all act independently from each other, that they are only connnected through Dark Matter and attacks trying to go through that connection are cut and any clone who rebels can be jammed and destroyed by the others.

So unless you can provide a scan of Kotoamatsukami infecting an entire hive mind just by being casted in one of its members and that it can also bypass security measures like Kakine's network has, no, I don't believe kotoamatsukami will do anything but control a single clone who is quickly put down by the rest when he tries to turn on them, making Itachi waste his only chance.
 
@Whis

So you're saying everyone with a Mangekyo Sharingan magically knows how it works?

Then why hasn't Kakashi used it? Or Tsukuyomi? Or Amaterasu?
 
@melox and lazy:

It is 100% impossible to detect kotoamatsukami being used if you do not know about the technique. The network will never detect it and it will pass on the experiences to the other clones, causing koto to affect them as well. Koto is a series of experiences that brainwashes the user, it is not conventional genjutsu or mindhax.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Whis

So you're saying everyone with a Mangekyo Sharingan magically knows how it works?

Then why hasn't Kakashi used it? Or Tsukuyomi? Or Amaterasu?
Click to expand...
No, everyone with a sharingan can use it. Danzo and Obito use it via random sharingans from nameless characters.

But people do not use it all the time because it permanently blinds one's eye. And the Chakra strain is too much to be used via a clone under normal circumstances, Edo Itachi's infinite chakra solves this problem.
 
So again you don't have any proof, just like with your claim about the Totsuka blade, and ignore the arguments of the other side.
 
LordWhis said:
@melox and lazy:
It is 100% impossible to detect kotoamatsukami being used if you do not know about the technique. The network will never detect it and it will pass on the experiences to the other clones, causing koto to affect them as well. Koto is a series of experiences that brainwashes the user, it is not conventional genjutsu or mindhax.
Click to expand...
the affected clone may be affected but the moment the network see it does not conform to the normal beahvior it will get purged (the PUPPET master does realive when string don't move a she wants)
 
^ going off what Lord Whis said first Kotoamatsukami is literally the ultimate genjustsu because you yourself think your thoughts are your own if you kill your brother maybe YOU would never do that but if its being used on you YOU say to yourself "IM GOING TO REKT THIS PUNK"

Kotoamatsukami users: Itachi Uchiha, Shisui Uchiha

Tsukiyomi users: Obito Uchiha (via ten tails), Madara Uchiha (Via Ten tails/riddiku), Itachi Uchiha

Kamui users: Kakashi Hatake (formerly), Obitio Uchiha

Amaterasu users: Itachi Uchiha, Saskue Uchiha

So @rep no they have categories for specific powers I left out Indra for reasons but this is the categories of MS and not all of them can be utilized by each person...

But my vote is going twoard Itachi via versitality, strategy and intelect, immortality.

Reasons

Kotamasukami... along with amaterasu

how I see it being used

  • Itachi uses KA
  • Makes him walk into or sta still to get rekt by amaturasu however question are we using post revival cuz this could be majorly inconclusive...
 
As we said before, koto has no mind to to overwrite thus no target. It is mind hax and thus can't do anything to personal reality or AIM or DM. Even if he could use Izanagi it wouldn't even help him in this fight except delay the inveitable he would loose an eye for no reason. Same with Izanami hes just looping 1 clone which would be terminated if it cant accomplish its objective he'd be wasting another eye. He has no ways to win this
 
I and Reppuzan asked you for evidence of your claim of Itachi reshaping his Totsuka sword into a giant sphere surrounding him that goes for a few km, or anything that indicated this was something he can do. Your only answer was "He does it every time he draws it.", which doesn't support your claim.

Reppuzan asked for show evidence of Itachi knowing how to use Izanagi and him using it through shadow clones. I asked for evidence of Kotoamatsukami affecting an entire hive mind bypassing security measures like Kakine's has.

You also keep ignoring the fact that Edo Itachi doesn't have Kotoamatsukami available, anyway.
 
@malox: but the clone will behave normally until the Kotoamatsukami spreads throughout the network. The network will have no reason to purge it, in fact Itachi is likely to make the Kotoamatsukami experiences look like, at first glance, a possible way to counter Itachi causing the network to transmit it to all clones. And then, it'll all be over.
 
LordWhis said:
@malox: but the clone will behave normally until the Kotoamatsukami spreads throughout the network. The network will have no reason to purge it, in fact Itachi is likely to make the Kotoamatsukami experiences look like, at first glance, a possible way to counter Itachi causing the network to transmit it to all clones. And then, then it'll all be over.
Click to expand...
it cant spread trough the net work they are disconnected how many time do i need to say it at least read the profile
 
Except Kotoamatsukami never having that kind of feat nor working like that. You can repeat "experiences" all you like, the practical effects are well known, it inserts one order into the target's mind that they don't realize doesn't come from their own thoughts.
 
So you also don't have any evidence supporting the claims made about Itachi's power, and now we're back to the debunked genjutsu argument without new evidence for your side...

Yeah, I'm out of this debate.
 
LazyHunter said:
I and Reppuzan asked you for evidence of your claim of Itachi reshaping his Totsuka sword into a giant sphere surrounding him that goes for a few km, or anything that indicated this was something he can do. Your only answer was "He does it every time he draws it.", which doesn't support your claim.

Reppuzan asked for show evidence of Itachi knowing how to use Izanagi and him using it through shadow clones. I asked for evidence of Kotoamatsukami affecting an entire hive mind bypassing security measures like Kakine's has.

You also keep ignoring the fact that Edo Itachi doesn't have kotoamatsukami avialable, anyway.
Click to expand...
1. I myself said that there was no exact evidence of this but Itachi stores his sword in a small bottle, but when he draws it it expands greatly in size and changes in shape becoming a colossal sword. That was what I was referring to. Furthermore it was even stated that Totsuka cam completely change its size and shape.

2. If even nameless uchiha can use it, it rationally follows that Itachi can to. Also, there are no hive minds in Naruto so I can't give proof of this but I have explained how koto works and logically speaking, it should be able to affect a hive mind that has shared experiences.

3. No offense, but you are being a bit pedantic about Edo Itachi not having Kotoamatsukami.
 
1) There's no exact evidence = there's no evidence of it being able to magically change in size wide enough to instantly wipe out an army of clones.

2) Nameless Uchiha can use it doesn't mean Itachi can use it. LazyHunter has repeatedly stated that the clones are independent of each other and that infecting one won't affect the rest. Stop repeating this argument.

3) He doesn't. He only had Kotoamatsukami through prep time since he left it with Naruto.
 
That stupid Naruto wank...

Itachi will be destroyed beyond the limits of Edo regen and absorbed (Macro Quantum destruction and absorption).

Kakine is a walking supercomputer, as any Level 5 esper. His intellect is supergenius at least (he can calc every single DM particle movement, wich is needed to use his powers), so stop saying "Itachi via intellect".

Beetle 05 is the post revival, wich will lead to Itachi being forced to use Totsuka, but he will be already dead when it happens.

No ******* genjutsu has any effect on a mindless body that is composed of a unknown and non-existent substance that produces 25,000 types of energy. Also, Kakine can spam new bodies and attacks. He is more versatile than Itachi.

Kakine can attack Itachi inside the Susanoo'o with Dark Matter, and send DM particles anywhere he wants, outside Itachi's range.
 
can or cannot u are just biased simply by the fact u still have not read the other profile, what more to argue if u just push ur argument without knowing the opponent ability ?
 
Itachi can't use Izanagi,Madara,Obito and Dazno could use Izanagi only because they had Uchiha and Senju DNA.Itachi is only Uchiha uithout Senju DNA.
 
LordWhis said:
1. I myself said that there was no exact evidence of this but Itachi stores his sword in a small bottle, but when he draws it it expands greatly in size and changes in shape becoming a colossal sword. That was what I was referring g to.

2. If even nameless uchiha can use it, it rationally follows that Itachi can to. Also, there are no hive minds in Naruto so I can't give proof of this but I have explained how koto works and logically speaking, it should be able to affect a hive mind that has shared experiences.

3. No offense, but you are being a bit pedantic about Edo Itachi not having Kotoamatsukami.
Click to expand...
The liquid forms the into the sword why is this an argument tho it is a mid range weapon that can't seal material and particles out of of its range and scope.

Koto is Mind Hax it can't effect aim or personal reality why is this still being used.

Reguardless if he has it or not it doesn't matter
 
@Dzhindzholia

I'm pretty sure fodder Uchiha used to spam Izanagi, which is why Izanami was created to discourage them from doing so. If Itachi knows something that was created after Izanagi, I see no reason why he wouldn't know Izanagi itself, but I digress. From what I'm seeing, Kakine punts regardless.
 
@zensum: The only reason I was using Koto to argue was because you told me the clones can transfer experiences.
 
LordWhis said:
@zensum: The only reason I was using Koto to argue was because you told me the clones can transfer experiences.
Click to expand...
could u just read the profile its written there how the network works
 
Just out of pure curiosity- if kakine is immune to genjutsu, why were people saying that Madara could beat him via IT in the vs Hashirama thread ?
 
@Burning Full Fingers I watched Obito versus Konan recently and Obito mentioned that Izanagi can only be used by those who have both DNA.But Madara somehow used it.

Also,those episodes with fodder Ninja are fillers if i dont forget.
 
@malox:

I have read the profile and from what I see it is definitely possible to interfere with the network, it even references characters being able to do this.

Furthermore, it outright states that Kakine perceives the world through his clones which seals the deal.

The page take about lack of physical connections, not lack of mental ones between clones.
 
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