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Yeah I don't agree with that, if we followed that logic, we could never scale calcs to anyone at all because the attacks look different in size
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East Blue to Skypiea revisions.
- Thread starter Ryuga21
- Start date
- Status
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Why would exploding a couple of meters off of the ground make the explosion a dozen meters across, and exploding on the ground make the explosion 250 meters across?
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I can understand that being a reservation if this were a Ki Control or Energy Manipulation type issue but these are physical explosives.
We're being hypocritical if we're saying the size of the explosion is all that matters for finding the potency if we're only going to highball it by selecting the biggest explosion for scaling Usopp's durability.
Either use an average among the various explosions shown as that is the most consistent AP value for them, or use the feat specific to Usopp himself.
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Idk ask Oda who made a bunch of similar sized baseballs explode with a city block and above yield.
Them having different sizes and one of them having a drastically different size with a different condition met shows there's something different.
The Lassoo who did that feat was sick and semi-KO'd. I highly doubt he's deliberately putting a larger yield into a baseball when he's sick over when he's in a fight.
This Lassoo spit out a ball that rolled slower than a turtle can move and it blows up on the ground, gets a big yield.
Earlier he was in peak health and he was shooting them much faster, and they were getting reflected around and they all exploded in mid air.
Physical explosives caused by a cannondog.
Yeah no, I don't agree
Idk when we started to find averages because 1 yield is higher.
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I'd like to know the mechanics of that. Perhaps a calc expert could help us out there.
If he was semi-KO'd perhaps he wasn't deliberately putting a larger yield into it at all but released it accidentally.
Indeed.
You don't agree it is hypocritical? Fair, but that's how I see it (not aimed at anyone specific; more like the general approach from any calcing standpoint).
And this isn't because 1 yield is higher. It's because this isn't the same explosion that Usopp was hit by. You're assuming that the Attack Potency is the same; I am simply not assuming that.
If the evidence from the calculations is telling me that the potency is different (regardless of the reason like it being on the ground or not) then there is evidence for me to go against the current proposal in the sandbox.
It seems self-evident to me that if you wanted to find Usopp's durability that you'd calc the explosion he was actually hit by. Not calc another explosion he wasn't hit by and assume it must be the same potency as the explosion Usopp was hit by.
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We can calculate her durability from that.
Also, if it doesn't matter does this mean you don't mind if my complaints about the initial justification for Usopp's durability are accepted?
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Why is that suddenly a big problem now? you never had a problem with it before.
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Because this wasn't the proposed justification on Usopp's profile until now... Why would I be concerned about something that hadn't come up before?
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You're making an assumption based on the size of a boom with a different condition meant.
You can't even calc that. What are you gonna compare it to, the sand?
This is accepted on the scaling from his profile right now. All I did was edit the justification.
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If the different condition would affect it that much, I'll accept it. I'll consult someone on it.
You mean we can't calc the explosion Usopp was hit by? Because I'm pretty sure we can. If we could calc it, would you have issues with it being used?
Fair. I hadn't paid too much attention to the profiles for characters like Usopp before. I hadn't realized how crucial he was to the scaling.
EDIT: Alright, now I'm heading out at last. Will be back on this either very late tonight, or early tomorrow.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
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If I remember the same thing was brought up on the Post-timeskip scaling thread, seems like it's a common problem Damage has (not trying to be rude by saying this)
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Don't worry, you're not rude at all. I can only say I wish I had spotted it sooner / spoke up about it sooner, when cases like this occur.
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My point is that explosion is a result of the Dog Gun being worked up and creating an uncontrolled massive explosion, it should just scale above the 8-A Calc
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I can already tell, this will end up like the other revisions (if this revision reaches 9 pages it proves my point)
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I wouldn't have an issue with it being used, but I need a reason to use it over this.
"Calcing the explosion during the feat is better than calcing the explosion from another instance" isn't a good argument, or else we couldn't scale anybody to Luffy for not doing the destruction he did at Arlong Park, and we'd just scale them to Luffy moving them with a punch.
He wasn't, he is now.
A lot of our ratings have been overlooked, which is why every CRT we make we get hit with a scenario like this.
Not badmouthing anybody, just saying insight of mine.
Hody scaled to Usopp for years, became an issue recently.
Zoro scaled to a flawed High Hypersonic calc for years, became an issue recently.
Now something like this, it's routine at this point
Gotcha
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
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I don't think so, there were bigger reasons that revision lasted 9 pages long.
Glad to hear, I didn't want to come off as offensive.
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Question why would a Calc expert help? They only need to have knowledge on one piece, I mean if we took one if the best Calcer in the world, he wouldn't know what's going on or how to explain things that are in one piece
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Yee but how would they understand the fundamental on One Piece....
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If we are saying that all explosions have to have the same yield, then we are saying that the different portrayals are art inconsistencies. In such a case, just compare the explosions and see the most consistent portrayal of it.
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I'm in favour of that.
My main reason for objecting to the current logic is that it is like we're trying to calculate the mass of a boulder that fell on someone to find their durability. But instead of calcing the specific boulder that fell on them we're currently calcing a different boulder that is a completely different size and therefore a completely different weight, and this boulder never touched them.
That's why this seems like such an obvious issue to me.
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Usopp taking explosives from Mr. 4
We calced one of them to be this, and because this one is so much larger, it apparently means that Mr. 4 has different AP with each cannonball, which was never implied.
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Bone to pick
Nico Robin
This was before/in the beginning of Skypiea where they were town level. She'd get downgraded to town level unless she has any feats/scaling to put her higher, which means Yama goes there too.
Nico Robin
This was before/in the beginning of Skypiea where they were town level. She'd get downgraded to town level unless she has any feats/scaling to put her higher, which means Yama goes there too.
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The fact the explosions are different from each other to such a drastic scale is the implication.
Calcing that explosion and scaling it to the one Usopp withstood is no different than scaling one of the explosions that is 12 meters across and scaling the explosion Mr. 4 survived to that one.
As AKM said, if we're supposed to believe that the explosions have the same potency then let's just see what is the most consistent AP value for them... otherwise how do we not know that the one you're calcing is an outlier or not? Otherwise, let's simplify it and simply scale Usopp to the specific explosion he withstood.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,084
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Actually i just find a better solution, just have Usopp scale to Mr. 4, who did in fact survive that same very explosion.
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That has some issues in itself.
Mr. 4 survived that explosion, it is true, but does that mean that any amount of non-lethal damage is equal to the explosion just because Mr. 4 survived it?
Also, Mr. 4's durability should likely be calced from the value of the explosion either way, much like we do with Pell currently.
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I am inclined to agree with KingTempest. My apologies Damage. It would not make sense that he uses very varied power in his ammunition.
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That's not really what is in dispute though.
Even if we had to say, "There is only one AP value for the explosive baseballs", it doesn't make sense to use the most high end value. According to AKM it is more reasonable to find the most consistent value and that is what I agree with.
Sorry Antvasima, but it looks like you've just read a single post to come to your conclusion instead of following along with the arguments and reading everybody's posts.
EDIT: Has anyone actually addressed AKM's post? It doesn't seem like it.
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Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,084
- 5,155
Are you trying to telli that somehow Usopp wouldn't have need to possess 8-A AP to harm and defeat Mr. 4?
Mr. 4 literally survive that explosion while KOed and beaten, yet Usopp's final attack did far more to him in comparation.
No, Usopp definitely had to possess similar AP to Mr. 4 for him to be able to harm him, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.
Mr. 4 was literally a few inches from the point of the explosion, i don't think in this case we need to apply the Inverse Square Law in this case.
Aside that that even if we apply it the result likely would still be within the 8-A range, Mr. 4 was already unconscious and quite wounded when it happen.
If Mr. 4 couldn't be killed by that explosion in those conditions, then his overall durability should definitely scale to the entire explosion.
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You can also say that to AKM, there is no need for you to say that to Antvasima just because he disagrees with you or something. A better way would be trying to make him understand.
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No harm in checking either way then.
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Why would I say it to AKM? I already know that AKM hasn't just looked at a single post.
And the only reason I said it to Antvasima is because he asked what we're discussing and responded to just a single post which came afterwards.
I'd like to try and make Antvasima understand if he actually wants to stick around for the discussion but Antvasima is a very busy individual.
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Alright. Let's finally move on.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,084
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I made i quick check and if the pixerscaling i did isn't correct, the distance between Mr. 4 and the ball its at most about 0.8175 m.
(157.51729/(4π(0.8175)^2))*0.83 = 15.5675739 Tons of TNT or City Block level.
However i still think that Mr. 4 should still fully scale to the explosion for the reasons i stated before.
Not to mention that East Blue Saga Buggy its already At least City Block level+, and both Alabasta Usopp and Mr. 4 would still easily scale above him.
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What do you mean move on? We're not done.
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I agree with this, there's no harm in finding out how consistent it is, if most of the explosions are like 8-B to 8-B+ anyway then 8-A is prob Inconsistent.
however if the calcs are fall fairly close then it's likely consistent as is.
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Okay. Never mind then.
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I've started the process of calcing the other explosions so we can look at this objectively.
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