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Dropping DBZ Movie scaling for Toei Goku.

So should we remove the Dragon Ball movie scaling from the Toei profile pages, and if so, are anybody willing to handle it?
 
I am not sure. I personally don't mind an extra profile page for him, but we technically have regulations that restrict the creation of pages for versions of characters that are identical to other ones except for the power levels.
 
After doing some further research, I found out that Dead Zone and Cooler's Revenge are the only movies acknowledged by the Daizenshuu 7's timeline, so there is confirmation that these two movies are canonical to the anime. On the other, Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon lack such confirmation.

GT is a direct sequel to Z's anime—Toriyama confirms GT is a continuation of the anime, Toei Animation's webpage states that GT picks up where the anime left off, Toei Animation's other webpage states that GT is the third entry in the timeline of the anime and is a sequel to the anime, and Anime Insider reaffirms that GT is the sequel to Z. GT follows the continuity of the Z anime.

With that in mind, in Fusion Reborn, Gotenks can use the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack, or more specifically, the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack 100 Ghost Finish. The Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack was not an attack he had learned until after Goten and Trunks trained in the Room of Spirit and Time, which they only did after Super Buu's awakening. However, Super Buu is nowhere to be seen, nor is he even mentioned, despite everything from Gotenks and Super Buu's battle to the defeat of Kid Buu being one long string of non-stop action. With that, it is impossible to squeeze this movie into the anime timeline, unless Super Buu just gave Gotenks some free time after breaking out of the Room of Spirit and Time—something Gotenks would need Super Saiyan 3 to do anyway. You may be asking: "Well then, how does Vegeta know the Fusion Dance?" Easy, like in Broly, Vegeta could have easily watched Goku teach it to Goten and Trunks in the afterlife. Nothing ever suggests that he acquired the abilities during the events of Fusion Reborn, aside from the fact that he knows it. Goku jokes with Vegeta about him initiating the fusion, but that's just a jab at his usual behavior. And lastly, unless I'm missing something, Gogeta does not actually call himself Gogeta in the fight with Omega Shenron. He just says, "I am neither Goku or Vegeta", and then rocks Omega Shenron.

Wrath of the Dragon could probably squeeze in, but apparently Bulma just has Time Machines for Trunks to visit Tapion in. It's also never officially stated to take place in the anime continuity, nor is it ever acknowledged outside of Goku knowing the Dragon Fist, which does not even function like it does the movie.

With all of this, I believe the only movies that should be acknowledged by either page (Z anime and GT) are Dead Zone and Revenge of Cooler, since they are the only movies to be confirmed to exist within the anime continuity.
 
Wrath of the Dragon is also were GT Trunks is implied to get his sword also.
 
Wasn't there another thread exactly like this made by ByAsura?

IIRC the Lord Slug movies were determined to be fine to keep for the scaling.
 
Lord Slug is one of the most extreme examples of "This movie is chronologically illegal", right behind Return of Cooler of course. In the timeline, it takes place between Goku's arrival on Namek and his battle with Frieza. Of course, Goku and the rest of the Z-Fighters are alive and on Earth. Goku also goes Super Saiyan for the "first time" in this movie, and he can use a hundredfold Kaio-ken, none of which line up with the TV anime.

On that note, Lord Slug is rated as Low 4-C in his prime. However, the movie pamphlet stated that Lord Slug was stronger than Frieza. You could argue that this refers to First Form Frieza, but given the fact that this movie was released in the middle of the final showdown with Frieza—ten days before Goku becomes a Super Saiyan in the manga—and the fact that it touts itself as the movie with a Super Saiyan Son Goku, it's safe to assume that Lord Slug is more powerful than Final Form Frieza, which would make him 4-B.
 
KLOL506 said:
Wasn't there another thread exactly like this made by ByAsura?

IIRC the Lord Slug movies were determined to be fine to keep for the scaling.
Click to expand...
Wait **** sorry, I got Garlic Jr. and Lord Slug confused.
 
Anyway, I would appreciate help from our community with handling the actual work of separating Toei Goku's statistics.
 
He is likely too similar to the original to qualify, yes.

I am uncertain whether or not there should be an extra statistics key for the movies in the current page though.
 
The page should be rebranded into a TV anime-specific page since that is what the page is based on and where most of the content comes from.
 
Movie goku has dragon fist, false ssj, kaioken x100, and he can absorb an entire large spirit bomb. On top of this, his personality is very different than his anime/manga counterpart. He is very serious and heroic. While his other counterparts are very goofy and laid back. So, he is not entirely same.
 
Also movie Goku us vastly stronger than both his TV series and Manga version
Nullflowerblush said:
For the same reason SDBH Goku does not a page, Movie Goku should not have a page.
Click to expand...
Actually you wrong this time, SDBH CC Goku have many different hax from Xeno Goku and his Super counterpart, but the wiki just don't accept his profile
 
Vietthai96 said:
Actually you wrong this time, SDBH CC Goku have many different hax from Xeno Goku and his Super counterpart, but the wiki just don't accept his profile
Click to expand...
and what reason did the wiki provide for its deletion?

BetterThanYou said:
Actually if you think about it, movie goku is more different than manga goku than anime goku is.
Click to expand...
Not really. The Goku from the movies is the same Goku from the anime, with the exception of powers. He acts the same throughout both the TV anime and the movies. The idea that anime Goku is goofy and laid back, while his movie counterpart is more serious and heroic is just blatantly wrong. He exhibits the same behaviors throughout both mediums.
 
sanicspood said:
a pretty mid one
Click to expand...
What am I saying is, why would the Wiki accept a movie Goku page but not a SDBH Goku page?

Anyway, adding onto my previous points, it would be pretty weird for the same writers (with Takao Koyama, Katsuyuki Sumisawa, Keiji Terui, and Toshiki Inoue being the most prominent, playing a major role in both the anime and the movies) to portray Goku as such vastly characters between the anime and the movies.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Anyway, adding onto my previous points, it would be pretty weird for the same writers (with Takao Koyama, Katsuyuki Sumisawa, Keiji Terui, and Toshiki Inoue being the most prominent, playing a major role in both the anime and the movies) to portray Goku as such vastly characters between the anime and the movies.
Click to expand...
I guess you are right
 
BetterThanYou said:
Movie goku has dragon fist, false ssj, kaioken x100, and he can absorb an entire large spirit bomb. On top of this, his personality is very different than his anime/manga counterpart. He is very serious and heroic. While his other counterparts are very goofy and laid back. So, he is not entirely same.
Click to expand...
Okay. I suppose that a profile page for him might be allowed then, but I would prefer more community input first.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Not really. The Goku from the movies is the same Goku from the anime, with the exception of powers. He acts the same throughout both the TV anime and the movies. The idea that anime Goku is goofy and laid back, while his movie counterpart is more serious and heroic is just blatantly wrong. He exhibits the same behaviors throughout both mediums.
Click to expand...
Nullflowerblush said:
What am I saying is, why would the Wiki accept a movie Goku page but not a SDBH Goku page?

Anyway, adding onto my previous points, it would be pretty weird for the same writers (with Takao Koyama, Katsuyuki Sumisawa, Keiji Terui, and Toshiki Inoue being the most prominent, playing a major role in both the anime and the movies) to portray Goku as such vastly characters between the anime and the movies.
Click to expand...
Okay. Never mind then. I suppose that our policies may have been a bit too harsh in this regard though.
 
Actually I've been wondering why exactly isn't CC Goku allowed to have a profile. He isn't the exact same as DBS Goku anymore with the events of the Prison Planet, Universal Conflict, Universe Creation and the Space-Time War arc's and he has abilities which DBS doesn't possess
 
I suppose that I may have been too harsh when I deleted the CC Goku profile page, yes.

What do the rest of you think? Is it different enough to remain?
 
Well personally I'd say yes. Although he has obvious similarities to DBS Goku, that doesn't mean that he's exactly the same. He has gone through stories which don't exist in canon (DBZ movies and the new Heroes arcs) and he can perform abilities he doesn't have in the anime like the Hakai for example.

Also we do already have a profile for the Toei anime DBZ Goku who's pretty much just a stronger version of the Manga DBZ Goku. The anime is the exact same story as the manga plus some filler and the Goku's of each versions are pretty much the same person.

Honestly the difference between CC Goku and DBS Goku at this point is far greater than then the difference between Toei Goku and Manga Goku atleast imo. The story of the anime is practically the same as in the manga with the exception of some filler arcs like the Afterlife saga or Garlick Jr. returning, while Heroes has it's own new unique arcs where CC Goku participates in like the current Space-Time War arc.

To put it short, if DBZ anime Goku can have a profile despite being practically the same Goku as from the Manga, then CC Goku should definitely have a profile too.
 
Okay. I will restore the profile page then, but you all need to help clean it up so it looks good, and to update Goku's tabber at the top of his profile pages.
 
I can't seem to find the deleted page. Can you link to it please?
 
Okay. Thanks. Should I rename it as well, or is the current title fine?
 
Okay then.

I restored the page and inserted the tabbers at the top into all of the other Son Goku pages.
 
Thanks for the help Ant. CC Goku's profile will likely be edited and cleaned up still, but there is also the issue of his card abilities. But that might require another CRT since the card abilities will without a doubt affect most if not all Heroes profiles in this wiki

But this might be a bit derailing at this point so it's probably the best if I stop here lol
 
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