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Dropping DBZ Movie scaling for Toei Goku.

Nullflowerblush said:
The only thing that changes is his rating from the Cell Saga onward, removing his 4-A and 3-B feats from Movie 10 and Movie 13, and his False Super Saiyan from Movies 4.
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What will change with that Goku, is we'll no longer scale Goku to Broly's feat (But he would remain 4-A by downscaling from Buu's 4-A feat), Removing his 3-C+ feat from Fusion Reborn (Unless that one is actually canon), and remove his 3-B via Dragon Fist

Other than that, Android Saga Goku will get the line of "should be approaching to the power of Teen SSJ Broly" (which why it even a thing), as well as remove his scaling to Turles and Lord Slug
 
GT shouldn'T scale to the movie either. GT was primarily made to be a sequel for Z by Toei.

So it's canon to Z itself but not the movies. While some movie villains made their appearance in GT the movies clearly contradict the plot in Z
 
Cooler's Revenge (Cooler's appearance during the Super 17 Saga) and Wrath of the Dragon (Trunks wielding the Brave Sword in the OP) do not contradict Z's story. Also, Z is canon to GT, but not the other way around. You cannot really use the argument that some elements proposed in a sequel are illogical because their predecessor does not have them. Either way, neither of those movies actually affect the scaling of GT, since the entire cast already upscale from Kid Buu.
 
I agree with purging Anime-DBZ profiles from movie stuff because or the reasons above. (the only one which stays is Garlic jr.'s)

I also agree with using Fusion Reborn, Wrath of the Dragon and the Cooler one for GT.

A movie Goku profile is just pointless and not relevant enough.

Imho the movies can scale to the anime but not the other way around.
 
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GT is just a continuation of the Toei anime meaning it should be in the same canon and also has shown the movie villains in it
 
This will mean making a separate profile for movie Goku which will just be a copypasta of current toei Goku profile so I disagree
 
I suggest we should only drop the broly stuff since broly is the strongest in dragon ball.
Everything else should remain the same.
And should toei ssj3 goku be upgraded to 3-B? He was going to destroy the entire kaioshin realm in his fight with kid buu. The kaioshin realm in daizenshuu is described an one-tenth universal sized realm.
 
Because a lot of movies don't contradict the anime scaling at all, besides the broly movie.
Hirudegarn movie happened after buu saga but before BOG, so why remove that? And janemba movie happened after goku fought fat buu and went back to the afterlife, so there is no reason to remove that too.
Other movies seems pretty fine too. The only scaling that needs to be removed is the broly movie.
According to koyama, broly is the strongest in dbz. You can ignore it all you want but facts are facts.
 
BetterThanYou said:
Because a lot of movies don't contradict the anime scaling at all, besides the broly movie.
Hirudegarn movie happened after buu saga but before BOG, so why remove that? And janemba movie happened after goku fought fat buu and went back to the afterlife, so there is no reason to remove that too.
Other movies seems pretty fine too. The only scaling that needs to be removed is the broly movie.
According to koyama, broly is the strongest in dbz. You can ignkre it all you want but facts are facts.
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Nullflowerblush said:

Kanzentai - Translations

Kanzentai ~ providing detailed and researched information, and media for true DragonBall fans everywhere.
web.archive.org web.archive.org

The Daizenshuu 6 pretty much answers all of the questions about why the movies cannot link up with the anime, nor can they link up with other movies.

For example, Super Android 13 (which is explicitly stated to take place in another dimension), Return of Cooler, and Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan all take place in vastly different worlds with their own self-contained stories. All of the movies and their sequels, appear to take place in their own self-contained, vastly different from the other movies.

Really, the only movie that matters anymore is Dead Zone, since that is literally the only movie confirmed to exist within the story of the anime. I've seen some people argue that Cooler's Revenge and Wrath of the Dragon also exist in the anime, but those movies are less "We exist alongside the anime" and moreso "We don't have any contradictions, so we could exist alongside the anime".

Of course, Fusion Reborn is canon to GT, with Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance and the two having become Gogeta in the past already. Wrath of the Dragon is canon to GT as well, since Goku knows the Dragon Fist, and Trunks has Tapion's sword, albeit only in the opening. And, Final Form Cooler appears in the Super 17 Saga, but none of the other movies have this treatment. You could use GT to argue that Cooler's Revenge and Wrath of the Dragon are canon to Z, but uh... Fusion Reborn. And then again, GT is a "side-story".
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idk bro, most if not all of the movies contradict the anime, this should be common knowledge at this point
 
BetterThanYou said:
Because a lot of movies don't contradict the anime scaling at all,
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No, but they contradict the everything else (i.e., the story).
BetterThanYou said:
And janemba movie happened after goku fought fat buu and went back to the afterlife, so there is no reason to remove that too.
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If there's Super Gotenks, where's Super Buu?
BetterThanYou said:
According to koyama, broly is the strongest in dbz. You can ignore it all you want but facts are facts.
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The Family Kamehameha must be the strongest move in Dragon Ball Z.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
No, but they contradict the everything else (i.e., the story).
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I am talking about the scaling not story. Besides the broly movies, all other movies do not conflict with the scaling. And yes, I do admit that movies happened in their own alternate timelines.
Nullflowerblush said:
If there's Super Gotenks, where's Super Buu?
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Because goku in the janemba timeline killed fat buu and went to the afterlife.
Nullflowerblush said:
The Family Kamehameha must be the strongest move in Dragon Ball Z.
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Yes, if you consider broly as the strongest in dbz, it was the strongest move. It was plot armor that killed broly. That's why I said the broly movies explicitly contradict scaling.
And besides, broly has one of the most clear cut tier 3 feats in dragon ball yet he is only rated as 4-A.
 
You noticed when it does that it changes scaling right? That's the whole thing Toei is. They changed the story and now it changed the scaling.
 
BetterThanYou said:
Yeah that's why I said movies contradict the anime story. But that doesn't mean that they contradict the anime toei scaling too
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You still can't scale this movie to the anime due to it contradicting the events of the Buu Saga.

It will only affect GT due to Gogeta existing I guess
 
DivineAura44 said:
You noticed when it does that it changes scaling right? That's the whole thing Toei is. They changed the story and now it changed the scaling.
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I don't think changing the story always necessarily changes the scaling. The hirudegarn and janemba doesn't really contradict anime buu saga scaling.
I think we should give the movies separate keys, instead of removing them completely.
Only the broly movie needs to be omitted completely.
 
Actually, the Hirudegarn and Janemba movies, which are set in the same year as the Buu Saga, are both contradictory because they use the Dragon Balls, which should have been inert stones (Bulma using the Dragon Balls to revive a large amount of people, which takes two wishes rather than one due to Dende’s upgrades, rendered them inert for 4 months, and the remaining wish was used to erase humanity’s memory of Buu after Kid Buu’s defeat).

That’s all I’m commenting here, unless someone disagrees with what I’ve just posted. I don’t care to pursue this any further since I made a thread in the past and it went nowhere. Honestly, though, there’s a ton of evidence to support the film being canon or non-canon.
 
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SamanPatou said:
I agree with purging Anime-DBZ profiles from movie stuff because or the reasons above. (the only which stays is the Garlic Jr. one)

I also agree with using Fusion Reborn, Wrath of the Dragon and the Cooler one for GT.

A movie Goku profile is just pointless and not relevant enough.

Imho the movies can scale to the anime but not the other way around.
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I agree with this.

@DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama

What do you think?
 
I've grown more neutral about this, but I miss Dark649 who was good at covering all of this. And I think SomebodyData also had some good points about the Anime/Movie stuff. But GT basically still tends to use Movie stuff from Wrath of the Dragon, Cooler, and Fusion Reborn yes.

All I got to say for now.
 
I still believe that movies should have their separate keys instead of being completely removed. A toei goku profile should be composite and movie goku is still part of toei.
 
if that were to happen the profile shouldn't scale from the movies to the anime cuz that's just dumb
BetterThanYou said:
I still believe that movies should have their separate keys instead of being completely removed. A toei goku profile should be composite and movie goku is still part of toei.
Click to expand...
 
For what reason do movie-only events need to remain on the page for? All the movies add is a tier that does not align with the anime.

Can we add a Neko Majin key or Dragon Ball SD keys to manga Goku? I mean, it's not like they have nothing to do with the main story and are just little spinoff stories.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I've grown more neutral about this, but I miss Dark649 who was good at covering all of this. And I think SomebodyData also had some good points about the Anime/Movie stuff. But GT basically still tends to use Movie stuff from Wrath of the Dragon, Cooler, and Fusion Reborn yes.

All I got to say for now.
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Yes, I also miss Dark649. He was one of the best staff members that we ever had, but just disappeared suddenly one day. I really hope that nothing bad happened to him IRL.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
For what reason do movie-only events need to remain on the page for? All the movies add is a tier that does not align with the anime.
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Because they are still part of the toei continuity. So, giving them separate keys won't be wrong. And tier differences between movies and thd anime are not really that significant.
Nullflowerblush said:
Can we add a Neko Majin key or Dragon Ball SD keys to manga Goku? I mean, it's not like they have nothing to do with the main story and are just little spinoff stories.
Click to expand...
If you want to you. I don't have much knowledge regarding this. But if they are canon then, they can surely be added.
 
BetterThanYou said:
But if they are canon then, they can surely be added.
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The only movie canon to the Z anime, which the Toei Goku page is based off of, is Dead Zone.

On that note, should we rename his page to "Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z Anime)" or something like that? Even now, calling him straight up "Son Goku (Toei)" makes it seem like he's a composite of all the anime material, but the first Dragon Ball is not included, and GT has its own page.
 
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