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Dragon Ball Z Multipliers Revision [Safe Version]

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How does lifting something off the ground translate to attack power?
 
It actually seems like it's harder to pull out of the rock than to lift in general also. I'll get scans.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
How does lifting something off the ground translate to attack power?
Click to expand...
Because it show that Gohan and Goku had superior lifting strength than Supreme Kai.

And since all physical stats are depend by how much Ki a character can generate, it means Goku's AP/Dura > Supreme Kai's AP/Dura as well.

By the way, that doesn't mean lifting strength = striking strength, it doesn't prove that.
 
> And since all physical stats are depend by how much Ki a character can generate, it means Goku's AP/Dura > Supreme Kai's AP/Dura as well.

> By the way, that doesn't mean lifting strength = striking strength, it doesn't prove that.

If you aren't saying that Goku's lifting strength = striking strength, but you are saying Goku's lifting strength > Kai's lifting strength, where are you getting that Goku's striking strength > Kai's striking strength?
 
> And since all physical stats are depend by how much Ki a character can generate, it means Goku's AP/Dura > Supreme Kai's AP/Dura as well.

Or maybe DB characters just have really low lifting strength. Goku struggled with 40 tons while in base and in general DB characters just have mediocre strength feats.

> Gohan's base cannot lift the sword, nor can Super Saiya, but then SS2 can barely lift it out.

He wasn't SS2. He lacks the eletric aura that SS2 consistently has
 
By the way, if everyone agree on Base Goku Buu Saga > Supreme Kai, wouldn't that means Base Goku is at mininum as fast as he at his best back in Frieza Saga, aka at FTL+ speed or 22,4c.

If that so, then Buu Saga Goku SSj1 may already reach MFTL speed via his SSj Multiplier alone.

22,4c * 40 = 896c.
 
Made little changes to the post, they are not High 4-C. Low 4-C for the base char. should start after the Hyperbolic training and much higher than before for strongest Buu Saga Base char. like Goku. No, MFTL is not going to get accepted since Base Goku is not stronger than Buu Saga Piccolo nor Shin.
 
Ok. That reminds me of why I thought it was 2. In the Anime, Gohan seems to power up gigantically, releasing an enormous yellow aura as he lifts it.

This would downgrade Tie, Roshi, Krilli, and Android 18's second key, as they're scaled to him for breaking Kachi Katchin.
 
Damage3245 said:
If you aren't saying that Goku's lifting strength = striking strength, but you are saying Goku's lifting strength > Kai's lifting strength, where are you getting that Goku's striking strength > Kai's striking strength?
Click to expand...
Because again, each physical stats for DB characters is depend by how much Ki they have or how much high is their Power Level.

If Nappa AP > Raditz AP, it must also means Nappa's Dura > Raditz Dura, as well as Nappa Striking Strength > Raditz Striking Strength and Nappa Lifting Strength > Raditz Lifting Strength.

Unless you want to tell me there is no proof of Nappa capable to lift more than Raditz, despire the former be superior in every category.

So if Goku Lifting Strength > Kai Lifting Strength, then also Goku Striking Strength > Kai Lifting Strength.

And all this discussion of this either prove or disporve Lifting Strength be equal to Striking Strength, it had very little to do in fact.
 
ByAsura said:
This would downgrade Tie, Roshi, Krilli, and Android 18's second key, as they're scaled to him for breaking Kachi Katchin.
Click to expand...
Actually they would remain at High 4-C, Perfect Cell and the others will lose the at least on their High 4-C since they are not in the high-ends of the value. Gohan became stronger while training on the Kai planet, and his strength was boosted further after unlocking the ultimate state.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Or maybe DB characters just have really low lifting strength. Goku struggled with 40 tons while in base and in general DB characters just have mediocre strength feats.
Click to expand...
Again, my discussion is not implying Lifting Strength equal Striking Strength, but that if a character had display to have much higher Lifting Strength than another one, then we can also logically assume that his Striking Strength is also greater, since physical stats in DB are all depend by the amount of Ki.

Qawsedf234 said:
> Gohan's base cannot lift the sword, nor can Super Saiya, but then SS2 can barely lift it out.

He wasn't SS2. He lacks the eletric aura that SS2 consistently has
Click to expand...
This was only at the beginning, after a while he was able to swing it like a boss without using his SSj Forms.
 
Characters can't display feats of physical strength without using Ki to amp up their lifting strength?
 
ByAsura said:
Gohan's base cannot lift the sword, Super Saiyan has extreme difficulty, but then lifts it out. Now we have a few minutes later (at most) where his base can lift it with extreme effort. So basically pulling the sword out of the ground is harder than actually lifting it. Kibito can't lift it though, who would apparently give Base Gohan a challenge, so it probably isn't AP.
Click to expand...
@Stefano He was referring to my comment where I accidentally said that SS2 was SS. Anyway, I think you'll see that this debunks base lifting it "after a while", as he lifts it in base just a bit later.
 
Kibito

Kaioshin's attendant

First Appearance: chapter 437

Special Characteristics: An old-looking man who works as Kaioshin's attendant. Though a good person, it seems that at first he was disdainful of Gohan and the other humans of the lower world, and did not trust in Super Saiyan power. His battle power is considerably high, enough to give Gohan a difficult fight as long as he wasn't a Super Saiyan. (Daizenshuu 4, p.55)

Techniques:He can teleport between worlds using a spell called "Kai-Kai", and has the ability to instantly produce clothes. He also has the ability to heal wounds.

Tenkaichi Budoukai: He passed the preliminaries at the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai, but abandoned his matches.

Anime: For fused characters, it's standard for the two voice actors to speak at once, but after Kibito and Shin merged, Shin's voice actor just made his voice deeper.

Source
 
ByAsura said:
Key words: Base Goha, and it was Daizenshuu.
Click to expand...
I would prefer see if such statement is back up by an actual scene or a quote from the actual show, since it was never imply in the original manga or in the anime.

And the fact that Kibito couldn't even move the Z-Sword by a centimeter when Base Gohan could actually lift it with little effort put intro question the validity of that quote.
 
It's said he was strong enough to challenge him, not equal, and Base Gohan lifted it with extreme effort while Kibito couldn't, that's not a big gap.

@Aiden

Is this creating Celestial Bodies?

Edit: Nvm, read the comments.
 
ByAsura said:
It's said he was strong enough to challenge him, not equal, and Base Gohan lifted it with extreme effort while Kibito couldn't, that's not a big gap.
Click to expand...
Well, assuming that it's true there is still the quote of that Supreme Kai about each Kaioshin at his time be powerful enough to oneshot 100% Frieza.

And since Kibito is a Kaioshin, it means he must be too stronger and faster than 100% Frieza, making Base Gohan/Vegeta/Goku => Kibito > 100% Frieza, especially Goku and Vegeta since both were stronger than Gohan at that time.
 
> And since Kibito is a Kaioshin

He's not a Kaioshin but an attendant to one.
 
Seems nice, Base levels being above Frieza in Buu saga. Edit: Ok, I guess I'll see how this resolves now.
 
Did the Supreme Kai say they could oneshot Frieza, or 100% Frieza?
 
He says someone of Frieza's level, but he probably would be talking about 100% given that he's trying to knock sense into Vegeta, and Goku is surprised by that kind of power (it's in the next panel, I'm not talking about Vegeta's reaction, since that was to the telepathy). Also, it's the next arc, they want to scale their villains up a few levels.

Also, it would make sense. They do have far seeing arts after all.
 
Damage3245 said:
Did the Supreme Kai say they could oneshot Frieza, or 100% Frieza?
Click to expand...
Hardly doubt they'll be THAT specific


Also, Shin has the calc I mentioned before
 
Damage3245 said:
Did the Supreme Kai say they could oneshot Frieza, or 100% Frieza?
Click to expand...
They said just Frieza, but its oblivious to assume that they can oneshot 100% Frieza since they are easily stronger than Mecha Frieza Saga SS Trunks.
 
Damage3245 said:
Did the Supreme Kai say they could oneshot Frieza, or 100% Frieza?
Click to expand...
He never specify, but we can assume he mean Frieza at his peak and not in his 2nd Form.
 
Damage3245 said:
Did the Supreme Kai say they could oneshot Frieza, or 100% Frieza?
Click to expand...
He just says Frieza. It also should be noted that no one but his most trusted people actually knew he had the ability to transform
 
They're Kais, so they probably have a way of knowing that. It is stated that Frieza was born like this after all.
 
Well, Base Saiyan by the Buu Saga are likely more stronger than Frieza, so would be surprised if Kibito could take on Frieza per say

But I don't think the statement was including him, just the official Kaioshin
 
I think I'll do some searching through the manga's buu saga to see if there's anything else. One example comes to mind about Vegeta believing he could take on all contestants, though this could be overconfidence.
 
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