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That's not what I am saying. Even if he fights 1v1, he must have thought that he'd win against 1 but be so depowered as a result that the other would have killed him right after. Which means, while he was confident that he grew strong enough to beat 17, he was still prepared for the worst outcome. This interpretation doesn't contradict either one of the statements.He was prepared to fight them 1v1 not 2v1, he already fought them before 1v1 and the fight he died he also died in a 1v1, in fact, the androids have never ever fought together, they actually go out of their way to do the opposite. 18 v Vegeta, 17 v Piccolo, 17 v cell even trunks v 18, 17 was just watching from far away. So Gohan was not confident in beating a less than half power 17 which means he's weaker than half power 17.
That still doesn't mean he surpassed half of 17's power. He could grow strong enough to surpass the power 17 showed before, so Gohan would think he can overpower him, but as 17 stated he used "less than half of his full power", and given that less than half means below half, we cannot assume based on that alone that Gohan surpassed 50% of Android 17's actual full powerThat's not what I am saying. Even if he fights 1v1, he must have thought that he'd win against 1 but be so depowered as a result that the other would have killed him right after. Which means, while he was confident that he grew strong enough to beat 17, he was still prepared for the worst outcome. This interpretation doesn't contradict either one of the statements.
Gohan told trunks that he'd be the only hope against the androids in plural, therefore meaning that he couldn't even think he can beat one. This supports my interpretation more than you.That's not what I am saying. Even if he fights 1v1, he must have thought that he'd win against 1 but be so depowered as a result that the other would have killed him right after. Which means, while he was confident that he grew strong enough to beat 17, he was still prepared for the worst outcome. This interpretation doesn't contradict either one of the statements.
All of that is anime only, Gohan got stomped by Buutenks in the manga.Just a minor correction but i think Ultimate Gohan should scale to 10.53 Megafoe like Buutenks does:
1. He's far stronger than Super Buu who is already 5.26 Megafoe
2. Initially he fought decently well against Buutenks
3. He even tanked a Makankōsappō (one of Piccolo's strongest techniques)
4. And he continued fighting even after tanking that attack
5. And even after Buu used the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack...
6. He continued fighting
In my opinion that guarantees upscaling from Buutenks to an extent
Gohan got stomped by Buutenks in the manga.
What is the speed feat you have in mind?Regarding this thread. I will try to calc a speed feat to try to get the multiplier thing sorted out. In terms of the scaling, I'm waiting to see what asura man has to say.
There are 2, Goku and Freeza reacting to the namek dragon balls which reached earth from namek in 2 minutes, and kid buu destroying several hundred planets in a few years.What is the speed feat you have in mind?
Actually that feat happen before Buu was sealed when he was still under Bibidi.I'll check the former. The latter isn't usable because there is an argument that Babidi carried Buu (sealed or unsealed) in his spaceship and went from planet to planet.
Depend by how much distance there its between Namek and Earth, the result that you get should be easily Massively FTL+.There are 2, Goku and Freeza reacting to the namek dragon balls which reached earth from namek in 2 minutes, and kid buu destroying several hundred planets in a few years.
I have 2 accurate ways of determining namek's distance. The best rocket taking 4000 years to reach namek and kami's space ship. We have an exact time frame too, we don't need to assume one, it's 2 minutes until the planet explodes as stated by freeza.Depend by how much distance there its between Namek and Earth, the result that you get should be easily Massively FTL+.
Now we don't have any solid evidence about Namek's location, but at the very least we can use Alpha Centauri's distance as the bare minimum, which its 4.13141275e16 meters.
And since the dragon balls reached Earth in less than 5 minutes (since they arrived before Namek exploded) and they arrived in a few panels, a timeframe of 2.5 minutes (half of the time of Namek's time before it explode) aka 150 seconds would be plausible.
4.13141275e16/150 = 2.75427517e14 m/s or 918,727.305c.
The fastest human-made object its the Parker Solar Probe which move over 330,000 miles per hour or 147,523.2 m/s (but its a low end since DB's Earth its far more advance than our own).I have 2 accurate ways of determining namek's distance. The best rocket taking 4000 years to reach namek and kami's space ship. We have an exact time frame too, we don't need to assume one, it's 2 minutes until the planet explodes as stated by freeza.
The first one there isn't a useful feat. They don't actually react to the dragon balls midflight.There are 2, Goku and Freeza reacting to the namek dragon balls which reached earth from namek in 2 minutes, and kid buu destroying several hundred planets in a few years.
You mean when they see the Dragon Balls rise up very slowly in front of them then shoot into the sky? How does that require reaction speed that high when it's happening right in front of them?They literally do though, in both anime and manga. 4:06
No I don't mean that, it's when the dragon balls fly up then immediately split everywhere, but this time they all fly together, they don't accelerate when they do this, they go full speed immediately. Everytime we see the dragon balls split apart they never accelerate.You mean when they see the Dragon Balls rise up very slowly in front of them then shoot into the sky? How does that require reaction speed that high when it's happening right in front of them?
It's not like either of them take any action to intercept the Dragon Balls or move out of the way... Frieza just helplessly stares as they fly away. No reacting on his part is involved.
And that's not even getting into the possibility that the balls were accelerating away from him instead of instantly shooting at full speed. If they were accelerating from Namek, then it's even less impressive.
I'm not sure. I just know that I'm not in favor of scaling Goku or Frieza based on the Dragon Balls flying to Earth.So what do you think that we should do here, Damage?
I agree, I don't think we have any speed feat for the scouters for Goku to scale to.I don't think there is a precedent on the latency of scouters. An even better example would be Goku beating up Recoom, but Jeice and Burter's scouter did not pick up Goku's momentary rise in power level. But we cannot get any quantifiable speed from that.
I'm with Damage, you cannot exactly scale Dragon Balls to anybody. In the manga we see that Freeza looks at the Dragon Balls when it is shining in the sky. It's like looking at a jet airplane from a long distance. It isn't scalable, and this doesn't take into consideration the possible acceleration. Even in the anime, Freeza reacts to the lingering light, long after the dragon balls pick up speed.
As for the Buu feat, the anime version cannot be used for the manga. We do use it as supporting feat for the anime. But in the manga, Buu destroying several planets can be achieved by Babidi taking Buu from planet to planet in his spaceship.
Why exactly we can't?I agree, I don't think we have any speed feat for the scouters for Goku to scale to.
Pretty sure we can find a way to quantify the speed.I don't think there is a precedent on the latency of scouters. An even better example would be Goku beating up Recoom, but Jeice and Burter's scouter did not pick up Goku's momentary rise in power level. But we cannot get any quantifiable speed from that.
Scouters transmitting signals across interstellar distances is a good point, but it feels like an outlier kind of. I'll just remain neutral and see what others thing.Why exactly we can't?
I mean, there are plenty of scenes that show scouters's impressive range of detection, capable to nearly instantly detect Ki signatures even from many kilometers away.
And this without consider the fact that it can send messages from light years at speeds way faster than even the saiyan's spaceships.
Pretty sure we can find a way to quantify the speed.
I mean, the are characters that get their speed because they can move so fast that they can't be tracked by cameras and the human eyes, this shouldn't be that different.
3,778,643,476.2cit can send messages from light years at speeds way faster than even the saiyan's spaceships.
It isQuestion, is Kami's ship travelling to jupiter in the manga?
It is and it is more impressive than the anime's timeframe.Question, is Kami's ship travelling to jupiter in the manga?
That is precisely what I did. I just need to blog it.If it is, then isn't it possible to calculate the distance between Earth and Namek by using timeframes? Like compare how long it took Kami's ship to travel from Earth to Jupiter to how long it took it to travel from Earth to Namek.
Where did you get that calc?3,778,643,476.2c