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Dragon Ball Z Manga Power Scaling

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Antvasima said:
FluffyCreatureZ:

It doesn't seem like the character pages referred to in your blog, that you need unlocked, have been listed in the convenient manner I mentioned in my preceding post, which is necessary for my automated script to be able to handle the task.
Click to expand...
Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z)
Vegeta (Dragon Ball Z)
Son Gohan (Dragon Ball Z)
Piccolo
Krillin
Tien Shinhan
Goten
Trunks
Future Trunks
Future Gohan
Master Roshi
Shin
Kibito
Frieza
King Cold
Tagoma
Android 17
Android 18
Android 16
Android 19
Dr. Gero
Cell
Cell Jr.
Dabura
Yakon
Majin Buu
Gotenks
Vegito
Son Goku (Chou)
Vegeta (Chou)
Goku Black (Chou)
God Zamasu (Chou)
Jiren (Chou)
Moro
Merus
Seven-Three
Brianna de Chateau
Sanka Ku
Sous Roas
Jimizu
Catopesra
Bergamo
Lavender
Napapa
Cocotte
Casserale
Kettol
Zoiray
I don't have access to my PC right now and I'm a little busy so it'll take a while to edit, is that okay?
 
No problem.

I will try to unlock the pages for you to edit. I hope that you used exact wording for all of the page titles.
 
I don't remember either, but it would be too inconsistent to start using tier +-signs for some pages and not most others at this point.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
@AKM sama Sorry to bother you again but can you edit your blog to also include all of the new multipliers past the namek saga
Click to expand...
No, all those speed numbers after SSJ Goku (Freeza saga) are insanely high. My blog already contains a note saying any value after that would need severe amount of backing. Characters don't become 5494323 xFTL from a single relativistic speed feat only with multipliers. They are supposed to be used in moderation. Them being likely MFTL+ is a big highball in itself, which can at least be supported by quantifiable increase in AP (from Moon level to Large Star). Their AP post-Cell is unquantifiable into the same Solar System tier. In case it had breached into 4-A, it might have been a supporting evidence since that gap is quantifiable.
 
AKM sama said:
No, all those speed numbers after SSJ Goku (Freeza saga) are insanely high. My blog already contains a note saying any value after that would need severe amount of backing. Characters don't become 5494323 xFTL from a single relativistic speed feat only with multipliers. They are supposed to be used in moderation. Them being likely MFTL+ is a big highball in itself, which can at least be supported by quantifiable increase in AP (from Moon level to Large Star). Their AP post-Cell is unquantifiable into the same Solar System tier. In case it had breached into 4-A, it might have been a supporting evidence since that gap is quantifiable.
Click to expand...
Super vegito is literally like 1000x times away from multi solar system level. Mind you before this SSJ3 Goku is about a billion times away from baseline. Solar system level is huge there's no way I can get them to multi-solar system level with no new multipliers without it being borderline wank.
Also these values are supported by the countless MFTL+++ feats in super so they aren't high balls, I can list feats that support these values if you want.
You should have brought this up 100 years ago man.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Super vegito is literally like 1000x times away from multi solar system level.
Click to expand...
I believe these numbers are coming from using the same multipliers and not feats, in which case they aren't supporting evidence. Freeza has a direct feat of blowing up planet Vegeta, which when compared to blowing up the moon, is a large AP gap. This AP gap somewhat contributes to supporting the speed as well, since the multipliers for both are same, even though the gap is filled with other unquantifiable increases as well, and not only multipliers. We don't use any official number for AP beyond Cell's calculation. It's all unquantifiable.

MFTL+ speeds from DBS after Goku got the god boost are also not supporting evidence.
 
Why are you strawmanning me? Did I say nobody in Buu saga is way above Cell's calculation? No, I did not. So? Read what I wrote again, and understand it correctly.
 
AKM sama said:
I believe these numbers are coming from using the same multipliers and not feats, in which case they aren't supporting evidence. Freeza has a direct feat of blowing up planet Vegeta, which when compared to blowing up the moon, is a large AP gap. This AP gap somewhat contributes to supporting the speed as well, since the multipliers for both are same, even though the gap is filled with other unquantifiable increases as well, and not only multipliers. We don't use any official number for AP beyond Cell's calculation. It's all unquantifiable.

MFTL+ speeds from DBS after Goku got the god boost are also not supporting evidence.
Click to expand...
Well the large star level guys go from that to cells solar system feat, but they also go from 1080 c to 57000c via a 50x multiplier so that's definitely supported. Piccolo also has a 20000c feat in super for casually reacting to a MFTL+ space ship and it's very consistent with where he scales which is also the same level as the solar system level dudes. And the big solar system level values is consistent with kid Buu blowing up a galaxy over time.
And why is the SSG amp makes their feats unusable? In this case, every fusion amp or so should be the same because SSG is close to that level of amplification in the story. It's way more consistent and makes more sense if they go from billions of times c to quadrillions of times c in super than 1000c to quadrillions of times c.
I really don't see why using regular scaling and assigning multipliers is considered high balling in the first place.
You had to bring this up not when we're still discussing the values but when I'm halfway done editing the profiles.
 
I can understand AKM's complaints and to be fair, going from 4-B to 3-A is an even bigger jump than going from 5-C to 4-B. Which kind of does explain the whole, going from just being barely 1000c to being Quadrillions of c. And AKM wasn't trying to imply that no one in Buu Saga shouldn't be much stronger than Super Prefect Cell's feat. Only that no one has made like a direct feat such as a Megafoe explosion sort of thing on panel and what not.

I don't agree with rejecting the later multipliers, only that I do understand them being harder to swallow compared to the Saiyan Saga-Frieza saga parts. But it's still fairly consistent that Gotenks was clearly stronger in base form than Majin Vegeta was, or SSJ2 Goku was, or even arguably more so than SSJ3 Goku or Fat Buu was if we take the "Holding back" part too literally. All of whom are stated to have gotten so strong, that even Teen Gohan's SSJ2 is basically a joke compared to them. The RoSaT's Gotenks multiplier is also probably the one that looks the most assumptive though not saying I disagree with but probably takes more explaining.
 
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What do you think about this? (Scans in Spanish)
1.Speed of Frieza's Death Ball explosion (2.87c).
2.Frieza and Goku react and sense the Dragon Spheres as they come out, these spheres traveled from Namek to Earth in a short time.

3.Shin intercepts an attack by Buu who was going to send Gohan to the ends of the Universe.

4.The Galactic Patrol Ship, takes a long time to reach where Old Moor and Sacred Kaioshin were fighting.
 
Someone brought up that Base Gotenks pretty much held back and let his guard down exponentially was the only reason he lost and got beat. But at least he was able to return alive unlike Majin Vegeta.
 
Kulf_Boba said:
What do you think about this? (Scans in Spanish)
1.Speed of Frieza's Death Ball explosion (2.87c).
2.Frieza and Goku react and sense the Dragon Spheres as they come out, these spheres traveled from Namek to Earth in a short time.

3.Shin intercepts an attack by Buu who was going to send Gohan to the ends of the Universe.

4.The Galactic Patrol Ship, takes a long time to reach where Old Moor and Sacred Kaioshin were fighting.
Click to expand...

Could you post the translations to English in these scans alongside the original spanish text please? We could evaluate them better that way
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Someone brought up that Base Gotenks pretty much held back and let his guard down exponentially was the only reason he lost and got beat. But at least he was able to return alive unlike Majin Vegeta.
Click to expand...
Scans for this? Gotenks was overconfident, yes, but I don't remember him saying that he held back, especially since he could just use his full power and overpower Buu if that's the only reason. That said, Base Gotenks being > Majin Vegeta is accurate and fits very well with what we see
 
It's better said that he was goofing off and chanting. But that's more than enough to say "His durability drops exponentially when distracted. And that's still counts as a hold back; didn't really need to personally state something.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's better said that he was goofing off and chanting. But that's more than enough to say "His durability drops exponentially when distracted. And that's still counts as a hold back; didn't really need to personally state something.
Click to expand...
Sure, but I would still say that he is weaker than Buu even at full power since he couldn't just go full power and overpower Buu
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Someone brought up that Base Gotenks pretty much held back and let his guard down exponentially was the only reason he lost and got beat. But at least he was able to return alive unlike Majin Vegeta.
Click to expand...
Yeah base gotenks isn't above buu. The fight happened off screen and all we get is that piccolo thought that gotenks was gonna get clapped, and get clapped he did, he himself admitted he got his ass beat. But he should at least be above vegeta for krillin and his statements and for surviving the beating and getting away.
Kulf_Boba said:
What do you think about this? (Scans in Spanish)
1.Speed of Frieza's Death Ball explosion (2.87c).
2.Frieza and Goku react and sense the Dragon Spheres as they come out, these spheres traveled from Namek to Earth in a short time.

3.Shin intercepts an attack by Buu who was going to send Gohan to the ends of the Universe.

4.The Galactic Patrol Ship, takes a long time to reach where Old Moor and Sacred Kaioshin were fighting.
Click to expand...


1. It's just really good supporting but I heard that the movie feat is unusable, you should try to get the calculation reviewed.
2.This is viable, it should be very similar to the space ship feat from non canon, actually no it would be mad high because the time frame is much lower.
3. This sounds very hyperbolic.
4. Who'd scale to the ship and what's the speed?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Yeah base gotenks isn't above buu. The fight happened off screen and all we get is that piccolo thought that gotenks was gonna get clapped, and get clapped he did, he himself admitted he got his ass beat. But he should at least be above vegeta for krillin and his statements and for surviving the beating and getting away.


1. It's just really good supporting but I heard that the movie feat is unusable, you should try to get the calculation reviewed.
2.This is viable, it should be very similar to the space ship feat from non canon, actually no it would be mad high because the time frame is much lower.
3. This sounds very hyperbolic.
4. Who'd scale to the ship and what's the speed?
Click to expand...
1.What they have said cannot be used is the KE of the planet, although no member of the calculation group has checked it yet. The speed of the initial energy explosion I suppose can be used.
4.It seems to me that Fat Buu and Goku Ssj3, MFTL+ can cross interstellar distances in days.
 
I'd personally prefer to avoid regressing the topic on SSJ1 being the accepted 50x multiplier because it keeps going back and forth. But it that is what it's starting to sound like again tbh... Not accusing, only saying that is what it sounds like. It's universally agreed the initial SSJ transformation is a legit 50x multiplier; he overwhelmed 100% power Frieza and speed despite Kaioken 20x being equal to 50% and thus a 40x multiplier would have been equal to 100%. And common sense says even post that instance, there's no reason for SSJ to be any less than 20x since Goku would have still been using Kaioken as opposed to SSJ1 transformations. And if anything, Android saga's description of SSJ Mastered would imply the opposite is true and that SSJ transformations are even more than 50x.

Not to mention, we have official confirmations that Buu saga Saiyans are stronger than Shin even in their base forms (Vegeta stomped Pui Pui in base form, Goku is noticably even stronger since this was before Vegeta bluffed his evil intentions just to receive a massive amp from Babidi. And while Gohan was a lot weaker at first, than Goku or Vegeta at first, he Zenkai boost from Buu buffed him to the point where even his base form was above Shin. And he got even stronger after training with the Z Sword. Which was also heavy enough for Goku to also train and get a bit stronger). And of course, Fat Buu being above various SSJ2's is an easy statement. Gotenks has 2 official statements; Krillin said even his base form is stronger than Majin Vegeta despite Piccolo still thinking that's not enough but considered SSJ1 form more than enough. The 2nd was during RoSaT, he initially thought Gotenks was too weak to fight base form, but was surprised when he actually sensed that they trained well and was initially confident they might not even need their SSJ1 forms. Vegito is also clearly above Buuhan even in base form despite also being able to go SSJ1.

So I fully understand the skepticism, but when all steps are considered. The multiplier stacking in my blog actually are very accurate despite it being hard to get Massively FTL convinced in the 1st place before AKM Sama did look up the details. And even later accepted the Possibly Massively FTL+ given some likelihood of Kaioken 10x being something possible during Ginyu saga and noting outright even that would be no match for 3rd form Frieza.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
2.This is viable, it should be very similar to the space ship feat from non canon, actually no it would be mad high because the time frame is much lower.
Click to expand...
Problem its that the scaling its kinda fishy right now, we don't have exactly sure if Frieza and Goku should scale to Namek dragon balls.

I mean Kid Goku was already fast enough to caught a Earth dragon ball while it was flying away, so its not like they travel faster than everyone else.

In anycase, assuming feat and scaling its valid, it would make everyone who scale to it easily Massively FTL+.

FluffyCreatureZ said:
4. Who'd scale to the ship and what's the speed?
Click to expand...
Moro and Grand Supreme Kai as they fly faster than the ship, but i don't know how fast the ship was moving in comparation.
 
So what is currently left to do here? Should I re-lock the earlier list of profile pages?
 
Antvasima said:
So what is currently left to do here? Should I re-lock the earlier list of profile pages?
Click to expand...
No. I am busy right now so I apologize for the delay in finishing editing the profiles so leave them open till I finish. After that we can discuss whatever akmman wants to discuss.
 
Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

Also, @AKM sama : Do you have anything that you want to bring up here?
 
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