Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 79

[DragonEmperor23]

He should have been Gote

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Zamasu, in terms of design, I personally think SSJ2 looks the coolest. Don't get me wrong, I do like the DBS transformations, but they do lose points for lack of originally. And while the Color changes are awesome, that alone isn't enough to describe how lazy the designs were. And SSJ3, I do like the excessive amounts of hair, but the losing of eyebrows is what throws it off. I personally thing the Hair shape of SSJ2 with just one bang looks cool. Electrical Aura is also cool.

And just to note that Ultra Instinct forms don't count as those are technically different abilities/techniques altogether and not really transformations.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I never understood the issue people had with Zamasu and Black tbh.

 

[ProudLearner]

I like SS3 because of nostalgic reasons.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Ssj is my overall favorite.

Ssj2 is my favorite in terms of design.

Ssj3 is purely badass that gives an overpowering vibe.

Ssg is very composed but powerful form that really shows off a characters strength along with their flexibility.

Ssb kick that up a notch and adds some ferocious power to ssg.

And the rest are meh. All in all ssj is my favorite because it's the most basic form and has perfect potential. Btw UI doesn't matter here, saiyan forms only.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally think Zamasu and Black were cleverly well written as well as what I consider the only real villain in Dragon Ball Super. Well, Frieza was at first, but his villainy was too short lived and felt a bit more like fanservice. Furthermore, he didn't truly shine till Tournament of Power. Zamasu on the other hand was pretty intimidating and clever villain at least till Zeno stepped in.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I also liked Zamasu and Black.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Well, Black was at first. When there was mystery behind him and he was just some reaper.

I could agree with that.

 

[Tipper17]

You can't be serious.

Failed to see how I'm wrong Both felt fresh to the franchise and felt well written to a degree in the anime. Regardless they were new and not just simply bringing back an old villain from the films with Some altering or bringing back an old dead one.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I can't believe anyone can consider Zamasu or Black to be exceptionally well written.


Zamasu's turn from peacekeeping Kai to genocidal megalomaniac was like a switch, there's no proper development, or any sort of legitimate reason for such a dramatic shift in world view.

And I don't see how the concept of an "evil Goku" is really original. The series has done it already with Turles, and such a concept just sounds like bad fan-fiction.

Which admittedly is most of Super imo, but unlike every other arc in Super, the Zamasu arc portrayed itself in a way that was intended to be serious, and its the arc where which has the biggest and most egregious logical faults of any other in Dragon Ball.

While I wanted to like the arc, it soured quickly and grew worse nearly every episode, the only form of enjoyment I got from that arc are some of the well choreographed and animated fights - and the "Don't Shoot - he's not Black" meme.

Everything else was mediocre in the nicest of lights.


On the main theme at hand, just because I would like them to rework other past characters, doesn't mean I am opposed to something new - ****, I was really exicted for Moro when I first saw him (although I have lost all interest in this arc tbh). Hell, I want the next movie to be on new lore as well.

Throw in fan service here and there, but don't abandon it or stuff the viewers face in it.

 

[Dragomer]

You missed the point if you think Zamasu's world view changed in any way, his point of view didn't change at all, that's the point, he just refused to change his view of mortal and his pure heart and sense of justice just made him go more and more extreme in how to deal with the 'mortal probleme' without any compromise.

And Black wasn't an evil Goku at all, it was just a bait and switch.

So yeah, it isn't so much that it was badly written and more that you didn't pay attention.

 

[Warren_Valion]

You missed the point if you think Zamasu's world view changed in any way, his point of view didn't change at all, that's the point, he just refused to change his view of mortal and his pure heart and sense of justice just made him go more and more extreme in how to deal with the 'mortal probleme' without any compromise.
And Black wasn't an evil Goku at all, it was just a bait and switch.

So yeah, it isn't so much that it was badly written and more that you didn't pay attention.

Zamasu's entire character arc was during his training with Gowasu. That being when Zamasu was learning from Gowasu on how to protect and preserve the mortal world, to become a new Kai.

However, when peering into the mortal world that he was being trained to protect, Zamasu found out that the mortals were disgusting simplistic lowly creatures, and when he was bested by one (Goku), he found the best option was to murder his kind mentor, commit genocide on humanity, and take over the multiverse.

He's character did, in fact, change through the entirety of his arc - his viewpoint of the world changed, which lead to the downward spiral of madness that is the Zamasu we know.


And Black is an evil Goku in the form of Zamasu possessing Goku's body. That's still a version of having Goku be the bad guy. You know Turles isn't Goku either, right? But he is still the evil version of the main character archetype - them being different people mean nothing.


So no, I payed attention, it was just poorly written.

 

[Dragomer]

Once again, no, you didn't pay attention, Zamasu was already a Kai when Gowasu noticed him and already had a bad view of mortals, had already his absolute sense of justice and pure heart, the whole point was that everything that should have changed his mind actualy pushed him further because he just wouldn't compromise or change, with Goku being the last stroke when he should have been the redemption of mortals in Zamasu's eyes (as the 'Kind Mortal who reached the gods as equal through efforts', which Zamasu just saw as an insult.)

So no, his point of view DIDN'T change and it was quite clearly the whole point, he was litteraly just there to point out how an uncomprimising sense of justice, a pure heart and an unshakable determination can go to shit, litteraly the only thing that changed about him is that he decided he wouldn't tolerate that shit anymore.

That isn't evil Goku at all, that's just Zamasu, them being different people mean everything, he can't be Goku while being an absolutly and completly different and seperated character.

So once again, you didn't pay attention and you're calling something poorly written when you don't even get the very basis of what actualy happened.

 

[AKM sama]

UI is a technique / state of mind, but it's also a transformation for Goku.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

it's a technique, Jiren is unsurpassed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, I think Zamasu's motive is quite clear cut. The way he viewed the purpose of being a Kaioshin was to become a god who watches over mortals. He wasn't a big fan of the irony of "gods being servants to mortals" when he believed it should be the other way around. And it was especially his jealousy towards Goku, the existence of a mortal stronger than he is, is what further raised his fury. Which I think some people here on this wiki can relate to that quite well albeit if Zamasu exaggerated and took it the wrong way.

Plus, Zamasu assassinating his master as a start of a new generation, and finding the Super Dragon Balls was quite cleverly thought out. And it was a smart way to demonstrate what happens when a Kaioshin dies that causes a God of Destruction to die. And Zamasu killing all the gods and causing all angels to become inactive is a pretty big driving point of Zamasu's character in what makes him interesting as a villain. And especially Infinite Zamasu; even if that form came out of nowhere, it was still an awesome moment.

However, one flaw I will admit is that Zamasu is still a virgin to the Chad Jiren.

 

[Ovrhide]

I don't know if anyone thinks this way, but I think for the moment, broly and jiren should be the only antagonist to be at least beerus tier. When fusion at blue forms and UI is the only thing capable of taking on foes strobger than beerus, you know fes have gotten too damn strong for anything outside of that to even work.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I sincerely hope they never reach a point where only Fusion and UI can do anything notable to the bad guys anymore. As cool as both of those are and I don't see them getting old anytime soon, it decreases the importance of everything else as they have to rely on gimmicks to win.

 

[ZERO7772]

Give it 3 more arcs before Goku renders UI useless and unlock SSRainbow.

Being real, I feel like they are hitting a wall as far power creep and transformation goes. Theu refuses to be creative in battle so they go with "who hit harder" enemy every time and they wrote themselves into corner. This is the reason Morro exist in the manga and how movie team said Broly was way too strong and want to try something different.

 

[AKM sama]

Thread LXXX when?

 

[ZERO7772]

Maybe Toei can give screen time to characters other than Goku and Vegeta, but I guess this is asking too much.

It's almost painful how DBS has been doing doing the same thing for 4 years now.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

They've already hit a wall with Jiren, an unsurpassable wall. Super Saiyan Jesus won't change that. The reason Jiren wasn't in the movie was because they wanted Broly and Beerus to live.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Thread LXXX when?

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3224650 ask and ye shall receive