Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 34

[Joseph619]

So... everyone and their mother can fight blue now, probably an exaggeration but it's getting a bit ridiculous, though 17 did have numerous years to train, still not buying him being blue level, i think goku was holding back a lot.

17 was holding back too, and Goku wasn't certainly playing around as he did with Krillin

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Still makes no sense, after all the training goku has done, and being trained the best in universe 7 and constant training, android 17 can put up a fight? Although not as as much of an asspull as what trunks did, i did enjoy the episode though, just didn't make any sense. This is the problem with super, don't take the time to properly explain stuff like we still don't know how trunks got ss rage, yea he got mad, but enough to become ssb level? Complete bs, again this is less asspully though, just gonna turn my brain off and enjoy the mindless fun.

 

[AnonymouXOtakuX]

why are people saying that Super's logic is nonexistence, the only thing that is wrong is the excuses they give for such a massive power up, not the fact that the characters are getting stronger all of a sudden. and still Goku is clearly holding back.

Hmm, I don't know, maybe their bullshit powerups,plotholes, time paradoxes, and Goku needing SSB for SSJ or below level characters, you could chalk it up to lazy writing as well.

like i said their excuses are the only thing they have been doing wrong, the time paradox was complex as fuq, it made, just like a paradox it took time to understand it, and like it was stated above, goku is doing it to see how those characters would react to the difference in power, not to make the fight fair.

 

[ZERO7772]

Everyone can fight saiyan who trained with gods if they spent their time doing some lifting from time to time , how ridiculous toei want to give the old characters spotlight by making goku go in a tour and fight them in blue to make it easier for them

Goku have proven to be the less talented fighter in the entire show lol

They want to give them some spotlight and we all knows they will be stepping stone in the actual torment

DBS power scaling has been ridiculous ever since U6 arc , I mean kirlin can fight blue after training for few months even though he stopped for years why can't #17 fight him as well ?

 

[AnonymouXOtakuX]

Everyone can fight saiyan who trained with gods if they spent their time doing some lifting from time to time , how ridiculous toei want to give the old characters spotlight by making goku go in a tour and fight them in blue to make it easier for them
Goku have proven to be the less talented fighter in the entire show lol

They want to give them some spotlight and we all knows they will be stepping stone in the actual torment

DBS power scaling has been ridiculous ever since U6 arc , I mean kirlin can fight blue after training for few months even though he stopped for years why can't #17 fight him as well ?

goku fought in blue against krillin becuz he was testing him, not becuz he needed to use it

 

[ZERO7772]

Everyone can fight saiyan who trained with gods if they spent their time doing some lifting from time to time , how ridiculous toei want to give the old characters spotlight by making goku go in a tour and fight them in blue to make it easier for them
Goku have proven to be the less talented fighter in the entire show lol

They want to give them some spotlight and we all knows they will be stepping stone in the actual torment

DBS power scaling has been ridiculous ever since U6 arc , I mean kirlin can fight blue after training for few months even though he stopped for years why can't #17 fight him as well ?

goku fought in blue against krillin becuz he was testing him, not becuz he needed to use it

He was also testing #17 , he can lower his power to 4-B in his blue form why not ?

The best thing to do is the turn a blind eye from everything while watching this , I am still waiting Goku to turn Blue against some robots

 

[ZERO7772]

I love how toei is ******** all over SSJ2 and SSJ3 as if they doesn't exist

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Yeah I can agree that they over use SSB, for Krillen I think he used it to test him to see how he reacts to someone that strong and as we all know Krillin is a punk who was always afraid especially of Super Sayains but as we can see know Krillin was the first one to attack without fear. As for 17 he clearly just straight up fought SSJ and SSB Goku and both where holding back but all they give us was 17 was training but they don't go in depth as usual. Also many people seem to forget is the SS transformations just give them access to more power but they can still suppress themselves. Don't get me wrong there is still some bad scaling in Super but everyone just assumes oh look Goku went SSB against Krillin so he must have been at full power lol! No

 

[ZERO7772]

He's literally jumping to his strongest form even though he still have another 2 to spare that make him 10 times stronger than his SSJ form , in the manga SSB isn't even something you can enter that easily it take so much stamina while in the anime they are using it for comedic scenes lol

Both Hit and zamasu got their ass kicked by SSG in the manga the only people who who really fought on par with SSB were Black and frieza

They just want to make the fights look cool by making Goku goes SSB to show kids "oh goku is using his full power this is exacting #17 got stronger "

I feel like i am in the worng place when i wtach DBS lo

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I highly doubt their doing it to make the fights look cooler but that's my opinion and they even said Goku was holding back and so was 17. Honestly Super just gets people to riled up as soon as an old character comes back and fights Goku they shout "BS" not believe the character just got stronger and Goku's holding back but I guess that's impossible people can't hold back in Dragon Ball. No I do admit its ridiculous how SSB was once some OP form and now its just another SS and it really took them to long to make the other characters relevant leaving us with moments that don't make any sense.

Other then that seeing the lookout actually move was just WTF

 

[Aceraspire]

Honestly, 3-A Android 17 is far less of an ass pull than Golden Frieza. The former started out stronger, and had way more time. On top of that, he has infinite stamina, so he can literally train non-stop with zero rest and just keep getting better.
Also, another thing to keep in mind. All characters known to go from 4-B to 3-A did it in an extremely short amount of time with some sort of ass pull. 17 would be the only exception. Think about it. The SSJG ritual. Goku goes from 4-B to 3-A within minutes. Vegeta gets SSJB offscreen without the ritual by training for a few months (granted, he was being trained by someone who is 3-A). Frieza gets his Golden Form within four months because he's "a prodigy". Goku Black achieves SSJR in a short amount of time, even though he struggled with SSJ Goku like a week prior. Trunks achieves his Super form out of rage. Future Zamasu somehow became 3-A due to immortality.

If 17 is 3-A, he would currently be the only one who achieved this level over the course of several years.

This.

17 had 10years to train

Infinitive stamina

Initially stronger than Frieza (much stronger)


Frieza : training 4 months became stronger than SSB

And yet people have problem with 17?

 

[Darkinx]

Frieza is an Alien. 17 is a human. The only mechanical parts he has, are the bomb (which got removed) and a core which provides him infinitive stamina. No Power boosts or something like that. So, as a human, he can't train like frieza

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Darkinx Frieza being an alien and 17 being a human has nothing to do with training, 17 can actually train harder then Frieza since he has infinite energy and he was already stronger the him to begin with.

 

[ZERO7772]

No ? Frieza is alien and was said to be prodigy several times this very fact about was explained well enough , Goku and Vegeta are saiyan the best fighting race in the entire universe who got trained under the strongest person in the universe and was constantly facing formidable opponents that outcalls them sometimes which bulid into what they are today

Not fighting some bandits on someunknow island and doing some workout by yourself , dude didn't even had sparring partner while Goku was training underg gods

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Frieza being an Alien has nothing to do with his training, 17 also had many years so he doesn't need to be a prodigy

 

[RadicalMrR]

Stop quoting each other

 

[LordAizenSama]

Android 17 gave his energy to the spirit bomb, that Android 17 is universal, and buu could manhandle the spirit bomb so time to powerscale backwards to buu and co. kappa

 

[ZERO7772]

Android 17 gave his energy to thw spirit bomb, that Android 17 is universal, and buu could manhandle the spirit bomb so time to powerscale backwards to buu and co. kappa

Dis

everyone is buu arc should be 3-A

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't see why training to become Universal is a big deal.

Krillin went from High 6-C to foddering multiple Low 5-Bs with 1 year of training.

All it took BoG Vegeta to become stronger than all of GT was for him to get pissed off.

Training in Dragon Ball always makes you as strong as the plot requires. That's it.

 

[Darkinx]

Nothing to do with training? Have you ever heard or potential? Even if a human trained for a billion years, he would never achieve god's power, while frieza, thanks to his potential, was able to do that.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Im just happy that gif of Super 17 beating Super 17 is consistent to the actual stats.

 

[ZERO7772]

Go upgrade Krillin and his waifu to 3-A then , sometimes you have to be realstic with what you should take and what you shouldn't , even for plot it bad it make the characters who work hard and fought through all the series look bad for someone who was off screen the whole time and then comes "suprise I as strong as you guys are becasue i was protecting some island

they just want to give them spotlight as fan service , they will be step stone when the real time come

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Krillin is only Planet level+. 18 has yet to show 3-A feats, but she'll very likely be 3-A.

 

[ZERO7772]

Becasue she was working in the kitchen ?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Darkinx Everyone has potential Friza just had a lot but it had nothing to do with him being an alien just look at how powerful Krillen is, if you gave him a billion years and all he did was train he would be God tier for sure no doubt

 

[Joseph619]

I feel bad how far Gotenks has fallen from grace. From being stronger than Super Buu to now weaker than Android 17. By the end of tournament he/they will be weaker than Master Roshi the way things are progressing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Because she'll likely be made comparable to 17 and do some 3-A feat.

 

[ZERO7772]

They can always bring him later and put asspull make him equal to SSB no worry

 

[Darkinx]

I just took a look at Herms' Twitter. Right before the fight Goku says to 17: "i'll try not to kill you"


If this isnt the evidence that Goku was holding back hugely, what is?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Joseph619 I agree its sad that they are still forgotten but hey no one is more forgotten then poor Launch who has yet to make a single appearance from what I've seen.

 

[ZERO7772]

Does it matter anymore ?

 

[Joseph619]

I just took a look at Herms' Twitter. Right before the fight Goku says to 17: "i'll try not to kill you"

If this isnt the evidence that Goku was holding back hugely, what is?

Goku was surprised in the middle of fight that 17 was so strong, beginning of fight doesn't matter

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Both where stated to be holding back even when Goku went Blue at the end

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Both were stated to hold back.

Goku says he didn't intend to go Super Saiyan Blue.

Both fighters praise each other's increase in power and say that they could easily kill each other back in the Cell Games.

17 is Super Saiyajin Blueberry level.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Matt lol Blueberry level!

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Android 17 gave his energy to the spirit bomb, that Android 17 is universal, and buu could manhandle the spirit bomb so time to powerscale backwards to buu and co. kappa

Yeah upgrades for buu saga characters

 

[LordGriffin1000]

LOL! Universal Buu Saga characters, though this dose make you wonder now where the hell was 17 to kick Buu's But? All he did was give some energy and that's it.

You got to wonder what was going on in his head was he like "Hmm... Maybe I should help those guys but I can't leave this island and if I give them to much of my power I won't be able to protect the island... Wait I know, I stick up some poachers and make them give up there energy and give them a small portion of my INFINITE energy" lol could you just picture 17 showing up an Destroying Buu with a flick of his finger

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Dbs writing is stupid as hell this probably takes place 3 or 4 years after buu saga how the heck did 17 become this strong and dont bring up the frieza thing we should wait until the tornament to see how strong each characters are and then upgrade them

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It takes place 6 years or so after by now. Bra is born. Android 17 trained by being a Park Ranger for about 13 years.

Characters in DB have increased their strength by millions of times in mere days before in DB.

Goku went from Planet level Small Star level+ in 6 days of training + 1 Zenkai.

 

[Dark649]

LOL! Universal Buu Saga characters, though this dose make you wonder now where the hell was 17 to kick Buu's But? All he did was give some energy and that's it.

This even puts most of the GT characters (Goku, Vegeta, Gogeta, Ledgic, Riildo, Uub and Android 17 [Especially by these ones], Baby and most of the Dragons) at 3-A.

So according to this or other episodes [Trunks vs Zamasu and etc.] and the soon Battle Royal these characters will end up to be Universal: Base (Beerus statements are reasonable to the writers) to Strongest Forms Goku, Vegeta, Copy Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, Cabba and Zamasu. Universe 6 Saga and Onwards Piccolo and Gohan, Botamo, Frost, Watagash, Basil, Lavender, Magetta. Krillin, Roshi, Android 17 and 18, Tien and Innocent/Slim Buu.

Note: Resurrection of F characters [Tagoma, Base Frieza, Shisami, Ginyu, Piccolo and Gohan] will remain on their tier because Tagoma was easily defeated by Gotenks and the 3-A effect takes place after that arc, i think.