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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

TiltedFN said:
You just used dt's arguments which were from 2021 on a thread that was trying to get the universes to be their own spacetimes, it doesn't even apply, and stop brining up ben 10, i seriously don't care what you could and couldn't upgrade with the verse, it seems to me like you hate other verses being upgraded when your favorite verse couldn't, now you go out of your way to use rat arguments that don't correlate at all.
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uhuh.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
iiiii doont carreee

If his Ki is explicitly stated to have "changed", and is never implied to have lowered, then his Ki increased, no?
Oh? "In every way he is more powerful still."?

Kibito is a Core Person, but he is NOT a god of ANY sort. Furthermore, the "pure energy" Babidi required to break Buu's shell and resurrect the Majin is scarcely elaborated upon, being harvested not only directly from the body (e.g., Gohan) but through damage, too.

Why the Supreme Kai and Kibito are incompatible donors for Majin Buu is unknown.

Except, when reverting into Buff Buu, the form he took after absorbing the South Supreme Kai, his Ki is explicitly stated to have risen. Thanks, Daizenshuu 7, by the way.

Technically speaking, Goku never faced Super Buu.
In fact, again, he actively avoided confronting Super Buu out of fear of being murdered.
And, even if his brief interactions with Super Buu are counted, yes, Kid Buu is his "most formidable" foe, being "the most difficult" Buu and all.



Firstly, anime.
Secondly, "his heart".
The heart that the evil, "evil incarnate", "pure rage" Buu lacks.

He's not ******* Super Buu.
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It is of no relevance if you care OR NOT. My goal is to prove you wrong, it you decide to ignore evidence because you dont care, that is none of my concerns. That argument to which you were replying debunks the notion that somehow kid buu is any weaker than super buu.

"If his Ki is explicitly stated to have "changed", and is never implied to have lowered, then his Ki increased, no?
Oh? "In every way he is more powerful still."?"

You have to provide evidence that it increased, in this case above, I referenced goku sensing this same Super Buu, and he never once stated that his ki got bigger. Despite the fact he did notice an increase in chi in Fat Buu. The more powerful part is not because of increase in ki increasing, piccolo stated that this body is better suited for battle and that his soul is now pure rage thus he would be more powerful.

"Kibito is a Core Person, but he is NOT a god of ANY sort. Furthermore, the "pure energy" Babidi required to break Buu's shell and resurrect the Majin is scarcely elaborated upon, being harvested not only directly from the body (e.g., Gohan) but through damage, too.Why the Supreme Kai and Kibito are incompatible donors for Majin Buu is unknown."

This is irrelevant. Dabura states he can't uses neither of their ki's to revive majin buu and shin states majin buu does absorb that energy. The point is that, their ki cannot make him stronger similarly to the other kaioshin's, and is likely because they have godly ki.

Yes his ki rises instead of dropping, you are proving my point. There is no reason for it to rise if the power he got was specifically from the south supreme kai.

You have to provide evidence, That Super Buu when transforming into kid buu lost that ability to sense ki.

"Technically speaking, Goku never faced Super Buu.
In fact, again, he actively avoided confronting Super Buu out of fear of being murdered.
And, even if his brief interactions with Super Buu are counted, yes, Kid Buu is his "most formidable" foe, being "the most difficult" Buu and all."

He faced Super Buu inside the laters body, he has sensed and seen super buu, he has seen other buu's too.
Him being scared of super buu is not an argument has its a character flaw. The fact being dende was there to witness those buu's especially super buu. Yet he still thinks that kid buu is the most notable one to be called formidable and doesn't credit any of the other buu for that matter.

"Firstly, anime.
Secondly, "his heart".
The heart that the evil, "evil incarnate", "pure rage" Buu lacks."

Did you read my comment this is a tangent and a bonus? I DO NOT need this argument to prove my points. This only supports and steelman my argument AS A BONUS to whom who may accept the anime. And the scan, says that his power was ultimately reduced, it not just "his heart", you decided to ignore that part .The other comment on that has no relevant nor bases.
 
Kibito Kai even confirmed that, upon Good Buu being removed, Super Buu was reverting into his original form, cycling through his multiple different previous phases, including Buff Buu, which is the direct result of Buu absorbing the South Supreme Kai. With Good Buu removed from his body, the South Supreme Kai, the source behind Buff Buu's strength, is removed, too, which means Kid Buu is not as strong as Buff Buu.
Borutonarutodebunked said:
There is no statement nor any evidence to support the claim that Super Buu after transforming and buffing up while rising is chi, gets lower after becoming kid buu. If it were the case, they would have stated that his ki dropped , not that it increased has it doesnt make anysense as it should have dropped the moment Super Buu lost Fat Buu going with your argument. Even if the good buu or south supreme kai (and if that was also true for good buu than for sure, when he lost him, Kid Buu would have been fodder, and wouldn't require Ssj3 building up power to kill kid buu has the two saiyans would have know that he got "weaker"yet they never once comment upon him getting weaker from that . He wouldn't be able to deal with a genki dama comprised of genki from people such has ultimate gohan) were removed he was never stated to be weaker than when his chi was rising from buff buu to kid buu. In fact, Super Buu himself states, he won't be himself if they take out good buu from him, he himself never stated he would be any weaker. And, if kid buu was somehow weaker, it doesn't make sense has to why , Kibito kai would be sweating having a look of fear on his face for what it is to come, after kid buu's presence if somehow he his weaker than Super Buu. As even if he his the most troublesome, it wouldn't matter if he his significantly weaker and can therefor be delt easily.

Also, When Super Buu was formed by absorbing good buu, piccolo states that his Ki changed and was better suited for battle but never states it got bigger. This is supported when goku also senses Super Buu's ki but never states that it got stronger or increased despite the fact that this same goku could sense the increase in ki of Fat Buu. Dabura also makes the point that, they cannot use the ki of gods like shin or kibito for majin buu to absorb it and reach full power. This means, Kid Buu's ki could not have risen when he absorbed South and Dai Kaioshin (Super Buu and Fat Buu Respectively). Dende In Super also makes a point that, Kid Buu, the ones that got reincarnated into Uub was the most formidable enemy Goku had to face, despite the existences of other Buu's such has Super Buu that he was there to see and witness. When the Kaioshins are taken away from Super Buu, his ki begins to increase instead of decreasing. In a small bonus tangent in the anime, it's stated by Kibito Shin that through absorption (referring to kid buu) had allowed his power to even be reduced. Thus, that would prove and steelman my arguments and why his chi increased instead of decreasing, it would also support the argument of the kaioshin's ki not making him stronger when he absorbs that and why he would be equal or very likely stronger than Super Buu.


Them humoring the idea of beating Kid buu is their own character flaw, it doesn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that somehow Buff Buu got weaker or something. As they were blatantly incorrect and proven wrong after they fought him. It's no difference than Vegeta after seeing semi-perfect cell becoming perfect cell, still thinks he can easly beat him. Despite the fact that Cell was suppressed, something vegeta doesnt notice. By your logic and your argument, because vegeta thought he could also beat perfect cell, it must mean that when perfect cell transformed, his ki must have become weaker or not change at all for vegeta to make such claim that he can beat him before the fight starts. In a similar manner , kid buu was simply having fun when fighting ssj3 goku. He was so suppressed at one point that even hercule could tank 1 punch from him. The reason they thought they could beat him was because kid buu doesn't look physically impressive vegeta called him "little friend", not because his ki was weaker. I already went over this point above, were they often underestimate their opponents based only on their physical appearance.

I never said Goku has never demonstrated the ability to inflict significant damage upon Kid Buu. Inflicting relevant damage and outright beating and killing buu are two different concepts. In that tangent base goku also did something similar to Buutenks.Vegeta being able to blow off the lower part of Kid buu. Mssj goku being able to blow off the upper body of perfect cell. Or vegeta'S final flash doing relevant damage to perfect cell. Even SSJ Gotenk was also able to do significant damage to Super Buu. Yet, he needed ssj3 to not only reach the level of power of Super Buu when he escaped the time chamber, but also be able to finally get rid of him. The point being, it doesn't mean they are relative to their respective opponents in strength, unless you think ssg2 vegeta or mssj goku being both stronger than perfect cell. But obviously, the two feats you shown proves nothing has, it doesn't matter for Buu when he can simply regenerate as even regular bullets can pierce threw Super Buu's skin.

The Daizenshuu makes it clear that even if he was at full power, it wouldn't matter. Kid Buu, didn't even care what Goku did. Goku was standing still building up chi, since kid buu would have logically retain the ability to sense ki just like super Buu he would have simply blitz vegeta and stop goku at any point he wanted if it was somehow a problem. The only time we see a worry on kid buu's face is when the genki dama is completed and goku uses it against kid buu.
Click to expand...
This ad nauseam argument you are spamming above was already debunked above multiple time. To conclude this discussion, you failed to provide any relevant evidence to support none of your claims and are actively ignoring evidence with pathetic excuses such has "I don't care". Your arguments were weak and holds to weight.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I can't help but feel like there's some personal beef with Saint Seiya that results in wanting it to be weaker than Dragon Ball, which is not a good mindset to have in VS debating
Click to expand...
From Luffy's part, there is, not gonna lie.

From others, if there is, I think it's because many SS supporters in the past (Matthew's crew if you know who I'm talking about) constantly tried to inflate SS' ratings and to downplay DB's.

That said, I think this kind of behavior should be prevented in any way possible. I don't like Luffy's behavior in all honesty.
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
It is of no relevance if you care OR NOT. My goal is to prove you wrong, it you decide to ignore evidence because you dont care, that is none of my concerns. That argument to which you were replying debunks the notion that somehow kid buu is any weaker than super buu.
Click to expand...
goku can feel his ki, yet he still says that kid buu is manageable, while super buu terrifies him, explain to me, how can that be if kid buu would be as strong or stronger than super buu? did goku suddently lost his ability to sense ki?

Borutonarutodebunked said:
"If his Ki is explicitly stated to have "changed", and is never implied to have lowered, then his Ki increased, no?
Oh? "In every way he is more powerful still."?"

You have to provide evidence that it increased, in this case above, I referenced goku sensing this same Super Buu, and he never once stated that his ki got bigger. Despite the fact he did notice an increase in chi in Fat Buu. The more powerful part is not because of increase in ki increasing, piccolo stated that this body is better suited for battle and that his soul is now pure rage thus he would be more powerful.
Click to expand...
doesn't the "in every way" part makes it clear that it is not purely a mind set change but his power overall?

Borutonarutodebunked said:
"Kibito is a Core Person, but he is NOT a god of ANY sort. Furthermore, the "pure energy" Babidi required to break Buu's shell and resurrect the Majin is scarcely elaborated upon, being harvested not only directly from the body (e.g., Gohan) but through damage, too.Why the Supreme Kai and Kibito are incompatible donors for Majin Buu is unknown."

This is irrelevant. Dabura states he can't uses neither of their ki's
Click to expand...
he said that they can't use their energy, not ki, the so called "damage energy" as said by null, is very vague on what it is

Borutonarutodebunked said:
to revive majin buu and shin states majin buu does absorb that energy. The point is that, their ki cannot make him stronger similarly to the other kaioshin's, and is likely because they have godly ki.
Click to expand...
well what he absorbs is not ki so, so i dunno about that dude

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Yes his ki rises instead of dropping, you are proving my point. There is no reason for it to rise if the power he got was specifically from the south supreme kai.
Click to expand...
why would absorbtions make him weaker? the guide showed that when he absorbed the kai he still got stronger

Borutonarutodebunked said:
You have to provide evidence, That Super Buu when transforming into kid buu lost that ability to sense ki.
Click to expand...
no, you are the one who needs to prove the positive claim that he still has that ability, you are the one affirming it, one does not need to prove a negative

Borutonarutodebunked said:
"Technically speaking, Goku never faced Super Buu.
In fact, again, he actively avoided confronting Super Buu out of fear of being murdered.
And, even if his brief interactions with Super Buu are counted, yes, Kid Buu is his "most formidable" foe, being "the most difficult" Buu and all."

He faced Super Buu inside the laters body
Click to expand...
nah, he didn't, he talked to him, he was threatened, launched a ki blast at his head, and after that vegeta did his thing and separated fat buu

Borutonarutodebunked said:
he has sensed and seen super buu, he has seen other buu's too.
Him being scared of super buu is not an argument has its a character flaw. The fact being dende was there to witness those buu's especially super buu. Yet he still thinks that kid buu is the most notable one to be called formidable and doesn't credit any of the other buu for that matter.
Click to expand...
he is the most murderous, evil, all out buu, he is the most formidable since he doesn't hold anything back, the moment he came back he instinctively destroyed the planet, you could talk and trick the other buus with words, kid buu you can't
Borutonarutodebunked said:
"Firstly, anime.
Secondly, "his heart".
The heart that the evil, "evil incarnate", "pure rage" Buu lacks."

Did you read my comment this is a tangent and a bonus? I DO NOT need this argument to prove my points. This only supports and steelman my argument AS A BONUS to whom who may accept the anime. And the scan, says that his power was ultimately reduced, it not just "his heart", you decided to ignore that part .The other comment on that has no relevant nor bases.
Click to expand...
the anime is a different continuity with a lot of differences, it shouldn't even be a bonus at all

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Kibito Kai even confirmed that, upon Good Buu being removed, Super Buu was reverting into his original form, cycling through his multiple different previous phases, including Buff Buu, which is the direct result of Buu absorbing the South Supreme Kai. With Good Buu removed from his body, the South Supreme Kai, the source behind Buff Buu's strength, is removed, too, which means Kid Buu is not as strong as Buff Buu.

This ad nauseam argument you are spamming above was already debunked above multiple time. To conclude this discussion, you failed to provide any relevant evidence to support none of your claims and are actively ignoring evidence with pathetic excuses such has "I don't care". Your arguments were weak and holds to weight.
Click to expand...
ironic you claim ad nauseam when you are the one doing it by copy pasting the same thing again, he didn't repeat anything for it to be ad nauseam, so your critique doesn't work
 
But you also shot yourself in the foot with 6D stuff. 5D is already a hard sell, 6D is a no go right now with the site's current state. Yeah, the arguments against the 5D timeline have been weak so far, but this is more about optics than strength of arguments. Otto and other dude were right.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
From Luffy's part, there is, not gonna lie.

From others, if there is, I think it's because many SS supporters in the past (Matthew's crew if you know who I'm talking about) constantly tried to inflate SS' ratings and to downplay DB's.

That said, I think this kind of behavior should be prevented in any way possible. I don't like Luffy's behavior in all honesty.
Click to expand...
Out of context this post is super funny because it gives me the mental image of the actual character Luffy figuring out how computers work just to supposedly downplay Saint Seiya power scaling.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
But you also shot yourself in the foot with 6D stuff. 5D is already a hard sell, 6D is a no go right now with the site's current state. Yeah, the arguments against the 5D timeline have been weak so far, but this is more about optics than strength of arguments. Otto and other dude were right.
Click to expand...
you have to understand that i also presented alternatives without using the neutral space just to solidify my arguments. But when the arguments are "the universes are not separate" then it becomes apparent it wouldn't of mattered anyway
 
TiltedFN said:
you have to understand that i also presented alternatives without using the neutral space just to solidify my arguments. But when the arguments are "the universes are not separate" then it becomes apparent it wouldn't of mattered anyway
Click to expand...
you know that the argument was not exclusively that right? pein said that it was an anti feat for them being separated space times, really, instead of being salty about them not agreeing with you, you could read the argument through and try to understand their reasoning so that you can see possible counter points or if you were wrong, because this attitude of "they are against db, bias" is really nothing but a wall to self improvement, it is a scape goat used every time any upgrade for db is rejected, it is honestly getting tiresome to repeat this old music over and over again
 
omegabronic said:
you know that the argument was not exclusively that right? pein said that it was an anti feat for them being separated space times, really, instead of being salty about them not agreeing with you, you could read the argument through and try to understand their reasoning so that you can see possible counter points or if you were wrong, because this attitude of "they are against db, bias" is really nothing but a wall to self improvement, it is a scape goat used every time any upgrade for db is rejected, it is honestly getting tiresome to repeat this old music over and over again
Click to expand...
Then don't reply to me, of course you would agree with him lmao, you just ride everyone else and all the staff, I don't care what you think of me, I really don't care if you say "its tiresome" because at the end of the day, its easy for you to say that because you're not even the one arguing it. So stop trying to act like you're the good guy, its getting really tiresome. And when I type out many responses just for staff to just basically do an FRA and be done with, maybe you can see how i would get a bit frustrated with already accepted topics just being ignored. And dragon ball has been downplayed for years, and there are even arguments i even agreed for in the past with dragon ball, so that notion that "you get mad everytime someone tries to downgrade db" is false. This is coming from the same site that denied moon level roshi for years.
 
omegabronic said:
and the circle repeats itself once again, again with the insults to take away credibility when i was talking in general, oh well, it was foolish on my part to try i suppose
Click to expand...
Yet you're the one who started out by saying I'm salty and I'm using excuses, don't even try to play the victim now omega, that is extremely disingenuous.
 
TiltedFN said:
Yet you're the one who started out by saying I'm salty and I'm using excuses, don't even try to play the victim now omega, that is extremely disingenuous.
Click to expand...
i said that is what your attitude sounded like, i mean, when an entire group of people use the exact excuse every time without even thinking of the possibility of them being wrong, well, i would call that problematic, wouldn't you? and how could i play the victim? i heven't suffered anything from anyone now to be one, all i did was give an tip on how to handle this after seeing so many people doing the same thing every time, really, what part of "i wasn't talking about you specifically" you didn't get?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
His power was flat-out stated in the movie to be complete. Cell Max is not Frieza or Kale, and the Jiren example is irrelevant as it just has to do with him releasing his power at the right time. Plus, Beast Gohan vs. Cell Max was stated to be the strongest battle in history.

I don't think I need to say more on this matter
Click to expand...
Incorrect. When you don't have control over your body, as in your mind and your body aren't in sync, you get what happened with Ginyu, where he had a 90,000 power level body, but was unable to muster even half of it.

So no. That goes for everyone, including cell, who was mindless.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Don't do that. Don't give me hope
Click to expand...
im serious, theres is a lot more that you don't know too, i have friends that also have credible sources that say the same thing, like its deadass real this time. It will be streamed exclusively on crunchyroll, the best animators like takahashi, kubota, shintani, shida, a small team, in production since last year of 2022, 15 episodes.
 
Ovrhide said:
Incorrect. When you don't have control over your body, as in your mind and your body aren't in sync, you get what happened with Ginyu, where he had a 90,000 power level body, but was unable to muster even half of it.

So no. That goes for everyone, including cell, who was mindless.
Click to expand...
Ginyu is a different case because that was the result of a body swap, meaning it was Ginyu's mind but Goku's body. Hell, Broly going berserk made him stronger. Rage is also provably shown to be consistently an amp to stats.

Ginyu is the exception, not the rule
 
TiltedFN said:
im serious, theres is a lot more that you don't know too, i have friends that also have credible sources that say the same thing, like its deadass real this time. It will be streamed exclusively on crunchyroll, the best animators like takahashi, kubota, shintani, shida, a small team, in production since last year of 2022, 15 episodes.
Click to expand...
I don't trust like that
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Ginyu is a different case because that was the result of a body swap, meaning it was Ginyu's mind but Goku's body. Hell, Broly going berserk made him stronger. Rage is also provably shown to be consistently an amp to stats.

Ginyu is the exception, not the rule
Click to expand...
Not an exception, because it was explicitly stated to be because of the mind and the body not being in sync.

You think toriyama would make that statement if he was complete? Cell was literally not complete.

Not gonna keep arguing this anyways. Y'all too thickheaded to change y'all minds.
 
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