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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

CR_Catinho said:
Yet nappa took it like a champ and couldn't do the same to kienzan so your point ?
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When did I say those 2 provide the same boost to the AP? They are not the same technique, one can be more effective than another. Your point?
 
AKM sama said:
When did I say those 2 provide the same boost to the AP? They are not the same technique, one can be more effective than another. Your point?
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So you're saying a weaker krillin can put more energy into a technique than piccolo ? Lol
Makes me wonder why piccolo didn't just put power into the makankosappo to damage nappa.

My point still stands
 
Special Beam Cannon is barely treated the same as Kienzan at all, even if I'm being generous. Even at its first appearance, it's just treated as a super charged up energy blast massively stronger than Piccolo normally. Kienzan isn't treated as a heavily powered up Ki blast. Again, it's specifically designed in a way meant to cut through things. If the point was that Krillin collected a large amount of Ki into one point and fired it out with much more power than his standard attacks, it'd just be a stronger than normal Ki blast, and rating it as an AP boost would probably not even be necessary, but that isn't how it's treated or how it works.

To elaborate on how the SBC works, Raditz doesn't even regard the way the Special Beam Cannon is formed and shot out, he just says something along the lines of "That blast is really strong, I can't block it!" referencing the Kamehameha that he blocked before. And furthermore, it explodes like a regular Ki blast after hitting something, unlike the Kienzan that cuts through what it hits until dissipating. Special Beam Cannon has always been treated similarly to other special Ki attacks, like the Kamehameha, Galick Gun, etc.. The only real difference between the techniques is how they're molded, and how much power is put into them (we can see that they have different amounts, as Goku possesses both a normal Kamehameha, and a Super Kamehameha, not to mention that Moro regards the Big Bang Attack as a regular Ki blast, meaning that other named Ki blasts are distinctively different). Also, I'm not sure how it was in the manga, but in the anime, we even see the Special Beam Cannon stop for a moment after hitting Raditz, taking time before moving through Goku as well. The Kienzan has always sliced through enemies instantly (in instances where it's actually effective), meanwhile Piccolo effortlessly swats one away when Imperfect Cell uses it in their first battle, Ultimate Gohan blocks one from Buutenks (who is even stronger than Gohan himself) and explodes normally after a moment.

The only reason the SBC has ever been interpreted as something ACTUALLY similar to the Kienzan is because it killed Raditz and because of the way it looks. But it's literally never been treated the same way as the Kienzan. Not a single time that I could find.
 
RinneItachi said:
Special Beam Cannon is barely treated the same as Kienzan at all, even if I'm being generous. Even at its first appearance, it's just treated as a super charged up energy blast massively stronger than Piccolo normally. Kienzan isn't treated as a heavily powered up Ki blast. Again, it's specifically designed in a way meant to cut through things. If the point was that Krillin collected a large amount of Ki into one point and fired it out with much more power than his standard attacks, it'd just be a stronger than normal Ki blast, and rating it as an AP boost would probably not even be necessary, but that isn't how it's treated or how it works.

To elaborate on how the SBC works, Raditz doesn't even regard the way the Special Beam Cannon is formed and shot out, he just says something along the lines of "That blast is really strong, I can't block it!" referencing the Kamehameha that he blocked before. And furthermore, it explodes like a regular Ki blast after hitting something, unlike the Kienzan that cuts through what it hits until dissipating. Special Beam Cannon has always been treated similarly to other special Ki attacks, like the Kamehameha, Galick Gun, etc.. The only real difference between the techniques is how they're molded, and how much power is put into them (we can see that they have different amounts, as Goku possesses both a normal Kamehameha, and a Super Kamehameha, not to mention that Moro regards the Big Bang Attack as a regular Ki blast, meaning that other named Ki blasts are distinctively different). Also, I'm not sure how it was in the manga, but in the anime, we even see the Special Beam Cannon stop for a moment after hitting Raditz, taking time before moving through Goku as well. The Kienzan has always sliced through enemies instantly (in instances where it's actually effective), meanwhile Piccolo effortlessly swats one away when Imperfect Cell uses it in their first battle, Ultimate Gohan blocks one from Buutenks (who is even stronger than Gohan himself) and explodes normally after a moment.

The only reason the SBC has ever been interpreted as something ACTUALLY similar to the Kienzan is because it killed Raditz and because of the way it looks. But it's literally never been treated the same way as the Kienzan. Not a single time that I could find.
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Say that on the thread, not here.
 
So I've had the chance to play the new DLC for Xenoverse 2 and, and I say this sincerely, they really need to let this game die and make a sequel when all this COVID business dies off
 
Xenoverse 2 came out several years ago, and plenty of Dragon Ball fans who play the games don't even like Xenoverse (including myself).

Raging Blast 3 is never gonna happen, but a fighting game with similar gameplay to it, the current graphics and animations of new gen video games, and maybe also the clever ideas of Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (with the advantage of DBS now existing), and maybe even some of the RPG aspects from Kakarot all in the same game would make one of the best modern day games around.
 
RinneItachi said:
Xenoverse 2 came out several years ago, and plenty of Dragon Ball fans who play the games don't even like Xenoverse (including myself).

Raging Blast 3 is never gonna happen, but a fighting game with similar gameplay to it, the current graphics and animations of new gen video games, and maybe also the clever ideas of Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (with the advantage of DBS now existing), and maybe even some of the RPG aspects from Kakarot all in the same game would make one of the best modern day games around.
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^^^this man is a genius, I remember back in the 2010's when this guy on YouTube went into very extensive detail on a Raging Blast 3 and even made a very detailed mockups of the graphics and mechanics to show what he was talking about
 
It's unfortunate that something of the sort likely won't happen. Video game companies are more focused on what's quick and efficient at making money, typically using repeated formula's with some extra diverse mechanics, instead of trying something new. Granted, that doesn't mean it's easy to come up with a completely unique and also completely functioning idea, and of course, a game like the one I referenced would take a long time and significant resources to make, but I'm tired of getting the same style fighting games constantly.
 
Any big game creating company with franchises everyone knows about, really. I mean, just look at the Naruto Storm games, they're literally all just the same foundation with extra ideas sprinkled in. FighterZ is another side-view fighting game with some extra mechanics, a decent story mode, and characters everyone is familiar with. Xenoverse 2 is Xenoverse 1 but better and with much more content (because they refuse to move on). Etc.. When it comes to anime in specific (which, let's be honest, are the games most people here likely want to see more of), they're almost ALL fighting games focused around the same pattern as others, and barely bring anything genuinely new to the table.

While I know my idea for a new DB game was pretty much comprised of ideas taken from multiple previous Dragon Ball games, such a combination hasn't been done before, meanwhile we haven't gotten the same Raging Blast style gameplay in years upon years (even though the Raging Blast gameplay has, in my personal opinion, some of the absolute best gameplay of fighting games in general). All Raging Blast 2 lacked was a decent story mode (which is literally just a massive collection of what-if battles on different levels of difficulty), and could use better graphics.
 
Hell, I'm so bored with modern Dragon Ball fighting games that the only DB game I play is Dokkan Battle, a god damn gacha game (albeit one of the best gacha games out there).
 
The visuals of FighterZ are great, and the music is fine too, but I can't lie, I just never had much enjoyment in the game. That could also just be because I never particularly liked side-view fighting games. I've only played a few, like Burst Limit, FighterZ itself, and some Mortal Kombat games.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
So I've had the chance to play the new DLC for Xenoverse 2 and, and I say this sincerely, they really need to let this game die and make a sequel when all this COVID business dies off
Click to expand...
In the sense that it was good so you want the sequel so it's not oudated anymore or in the sense that it was just plain bad?
 
RinneItachi said:
Any big game creating company with franchises everyone knows about, really. I mean, just look at the Naruto Storm games, they're literally all just the same foundation with extra ideas sprinkled in. FighterZ is another side-view fighting game with some extra mechanics, a decent story mode, and characters everyone is familiar with. Xenoverse 2 is Xenoverse 1 but better and with much more content (because they refuse to move on). Etc.. When it comes to anime in specific (which, let's be honest, are the games most people here likely want to see more of), they're almost ALL fighting games focused around the same pattern as others, and barely bring anything genuinely new to the table.

While I know my idea for a new DB game was pretty much comprised of ideas taken from multiple previous Dragon Ball games, such a combination hasn't been done before, meanwhile we haven't gotten the same Raging Blast style gameplay in years upon years (even though the Raging Blast gameplay has, in my personal opinion, some of the absolute best gameplay of fighting games in general). All Raging Blast 2 lacked was a decent story mode (which is literally just a massive collection of what-if battles on different levels of difficulty), and could use better graphics.
Click to expand...
I mean, Xenovers's gameplay isn't all that different from raging blast, both are 3D arena fighters, the only really difference is mostly the stuff for Xenovers to fit it's RPG elements and online multiplayers (as well as multi-mission ennemies)
 
RinneItachi said:
Hell, I'm so bored with modern Dragon Ball fighting games that the only DB game I play is Dokkan Battle, a god damn gacha game (albeit one of the best gacha games out there).
Click to expand...
I wonder which one is better between Dokkan Battle and Legends, I heard both are pretty good for mobile games. Though Dokkan probably made a lot more money given how long it has been around.
 
Dragomer said:
In the sense that it was good so you want the sequel so it's not oudated anymore or in the sense that it was just plain bad?
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Eh it was okay, I just think they're really getting untapped for ideas if their first idea for voting for a new character is the addition of UI Sign Goku when we have UI Goku already
 
There's a major difference between the mechanics in play when it comes to Xenoverse and Raging Blast. The only similarity at all is, as you said, that they're 3D arena fighters. But the mechanical differences are enough for the gameplay styles to be considered different almost entirely.

As for Dokkan Vs. Legends, I'd personally say that Dokkan is MASSIVELY superior. While Legends has much more interactive gameplay, it can get very repetitive, but unless I'm grinding the same stage on Dokkan for an hour or more, I almost never get that same feeling with Dokkan. The only advantage that Legends really has is the debatably better combat system, itself. Grinding in Dokkan is less boring, the events in Dokkan are much better (and they don't make the top tier units as commonly found or easy to get), the formatting and stamina system is better, and I could just go on and on about why I think Dokkan is better. Hell, I've been playing Dokkan since 2016 and still play it (I'm actually grinding an event while typing this message), but I couldn't play Legends for even a week before deleting it. And hell, do I even need to speak about the soundtracks? I'm just gonna link a few of my favorite Dokkan themes real quick.











To give a more precise answer on my stance, if I were to rate Dokkan an 8, I would rate Legends a 6 at best.
 
You also have the fact that getting Dragon Stones (the typical gacha game currency you get through hard grinding or money) isn't as hard to get in Dokkan. I don't think they should be easy to get, but while you do have to put in effort for Dragon Stones in Dokkan, it's not as rare as the gem things in Legends. And when a big Dokkan event like an anniversary comes by (Legends also doesn't do anniversary events iirc), you can get a shit ton of them. Hell, even if you do buy them, the prices aren't TOO unreasonable, and they have some huge deals on Dragon Stones during big events. It's not nearly as bad as some other gacha games that'll literally try getting you to spend nearly if not over a hundred ******* dollars just for a good character (although obviously Legends isn't like that, either). I also have to say that even just grinding up a character in Legends feels too complicated and tedious.

Although, I shouldn't just rag on Legends and praise Dokkan as a perfect masterpiece. Obviously Dokkan has its own flaws. If I were to name a few:

Old units, including even LR's, are severely outdated. It can be a problem in many games, but it's been very prevalent in Dokkan, where new cards become stronger with each big event, and because the new cards are so overtuned, the old cards completely lose relevancy. They've slowly been fixing this by giving updates to old cards, where you can do some grinding to awaken them even further, but it'll probably be years until all of the relevant old cards are good again. Furthermore, while I've always understood it and never complained about it too much, the differences between what players on JP Dokkan get and what Global players get has been extreme, lately. Recently, JP Dokkan has gotten units and even entirely new game modes that Global hasn't gotten at all. And when Global went through a major maintenance update that actually stopped me from getting login rewards on two separate days, with a major glitch that also caused some issues, the only thing we got in compensation was, like, 5 or 10 Dragon Stones, I think. Lastly, while I did say that the grinding isn't nearly as bad as in Legends, I would still say that the grinding required in some instances is a bit much. I mean, there are some old LR characters that you can get for free, but you'd need to do the stages for their awakening medals literally 111 times just to get them, and even after THAT, you would still need to do grinding for the ones that have been updated and buffed, otherwise, it'd be pointless, as the old LR characters are trash without EZA's.
 
Oh, how could I forget to mention it. One of the biggest critiques I have for Dokkan is how insanely hard it is to get Elder, Grand, or Dozing Kai's. Basically, characters have a Super Attack level up system where, when you level up their SA level, their SA's do more damage (most units have a max of 10, which can be increased with EZa's, and LR's have a max of 20). But to do this, you either need a unit with the same name (and even then, unless the unit is identical, it'll only be a small or medium chance of leveling it up), or you need one of the 3 Kai's I mentioned before. But getting any of them (aside from maybe Dozing Kai's which are a 30% chance) is extremely hard or expensive. It's insane how rare getting a free Elder Kai is.
 
Here me out .....what if there is a budokai tenkaichi game in the ps4, but you can actually choose how to interact with it, choose different dialogues and characters will change the story. Giving it ton of replayability. Basically having what if as the main story and you can choose how it goes based on your dialogue, combat decisions.
 
Yep. DBS has a good chance of being knocked down entirely to 3-A outside of Manga Zen'o. If you wanna argue against it, then that thread'd be your battleground as it's talking about how the cosmology is.
 
I didn't mention the upgrade part because there's no way that's happening.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the discussion was just shut down soon, though.
 
Havok said:
Or upgrade to Low 1-C
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Honestly, no one talked about the upgrade or even the argument for it and the 'downgrade' discussion was overdone, the thread really wasn't worth it and the upgrade should be seperated so we can at least have the discussion. Here it was doomed to be drowned in the usual arguments.
 
Dragomer said:
Honestly, no one talked about the upgrade or even the argument for it and the 'downgrade' discussion was overdone, the thread really wasn't worth it and the upgrade should be seperated so we can at least have the discussion. Here it was doomed to be drowned in the usual arguments.
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You might not believe this but your Time Ring explanation actually enlightened me lmao. Thank you
 
Dragomer said:
Honestly, no one talked about the upgrade or even the argument for it and the 'downgrade' discussion was overdone, the thread really wasn't worth it and the upgrade should be seperated so we can at least have the discussion. Here it was doomed to be drowned in the usual arguments.
Click to expand...
Btw where do y'all discuss downgrades/ upgrades ? Cuz i keep hearing ppl saying there's an upgrade here and a downgrade planned there , but i never see anyone talking about them on these threads xD
 
Dragomer said:
Honestly, no one talked about the upgrade or even the argument for it and the 'downgrade' discussion was overdone, the thread really wasn't worth it and the upgrade should be seperated so we can at least have the discussion. Here it was doomed to be drowned in the usual arguments.
Click to expand...
Yup. Honestly everyone went for the downgrade (which I kinda knew was gonna happen) but didn't give the upgrade any thoughts like it's so much more outrageous than making Zeno 3A.
 
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