Nullflowerblush
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In Daima, Shin reveals the insides of Majin Buu's body can disable Potara Fusion.
In chapter 23, Shin concludes Vegito was defused, not because of Buu but because of the Potara's time limit.
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Dragon Ball Daima Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ednaxel2
- Start date
In chapter 23, Shin concludes Vegito was defused, not because of Buu but because of the Potara's time limit.
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So, I thought this was a solid episode. Favorite part was how quick Vegeta surrendered when he knew he couldn't spend precious bath time with Bulma.
However, my main concern was with scaling and canon. I'm sure people would be foaming at the mouth to argue that base Vegeta is stronger than SSJ4 kid Goku. However, several things to note. One, the fight with Gomah has been very inconsistent in general. Base kid Goku/Vegeta and SSJ kid Goku/Vegeta were performing about just the same in their fight as Gomah, or at least base Vegeta could fend off and block some of Gomah's attacks. It's only when Goku went SSJ3 that we see any real damage or challenge on Gomah's end. Gomah was merely toying with base Vegeta and not fighting at his full capacity: it's the only way to maintain consistent scaling. It doesn't make sense that the kid bodies had such DRASTIC weakening when no such drastic mention was made beforehand. Tamagami 3 was stated to be stronger than Dabura, who should be close enough to Super Perfect Cell even ignoring the boost he got from the Majin transformation. Furthermore, it's only been a few months since Buu was defeated. The idea they could've gotten so much stronger during that brief period of time to the point base Vegeta is stronger than Dabura is an extreme stretch that should not be entertained.
Even after Vegeta went to his base form due to the SSJ3 drain, he was still fighting against Gomah without being totally obliterated. Does that mean base Vegeta is now comparable to SSJ3 Vegeta? That's completely nonsensical. It is more evidence to show that Gomah is just messing around and actively holding back against opponents he knows are weaker, letting himself get damaged because he knows he can recover. It's equivalent to SSJ2 Vegeta managing to blow apart Kid Buu. We know SSJ2 Vegeta isn't comparable to Kid Buu, but Buu got blown away by his attacks because he knows he can regenerate. Same logic would apply here.
We never got to see SSJ4 kid Goku fight this Gomah too much, either. All we saw was one punch where he was overpowered before Gomah used magic to drain Goku of his energy. I would say this episode showed SSJ3 adult Vegeta is stronger than SSJ4 kid Goku, but that's the most that should be concluded.
However, my main concern was with scaling and canon. I'm sure people would be foaming at the mouth to argue that base Vegeta is stronger than SSJ4 kid Goku. However, several things to note. One, the fight with Gomah has been very inconsistent in general. Base kid Goku/Vegeta and SSJ kid Goku/Vegeta were performing about just the same in their fight as Gomah, or at least base Vegeta could fend off and block some of Gomah's attacks. It's only when Goku went SSJ3 that we see any real damage or challenge on Gomah's end. Gomah was merely toying with base Vegeta and not fighting at his full capacity: it's the only way to maintain consistent scaling. It doesn't make sense that the kid bodies had such DRASTIC weakening when no such drastic mention was made beforehand. Tamagami 3 was stated to be stronger than Dabura, who should be close enough to Super Perfect Cell even ignoring the boost he got from the Majin transformation. Furthermore, it's only been a few months since Buu was defeated. The idea they could've gotten so much stronger during that brief period of time to the point base Vegeta is stronger than Dabura is an extreme stretch that should not be entertained.
Even after Vegeta went to his base form due to the SSJ3 drain, he was still fighting against Gomah without being totally obliterated. Does that mean base Vegeta is now comparable to SSJ3 Vegeta? That's completely nonsensical. It is more evidence to show that Gomah is just messing around and actively holding back against opponents he knows are weaker, letting himself get damaged because he knows he can recover. It's equivalent to SSJ2 Vegeta managing to blow apart Kid Buu. We know SSJ2 Vegeta isn't comparable to Kid Buu, but Buu got blown away by his attacks because he knows he can regenerate. Same logic would apply here.
We never got to see SSJ4 kid Goku fight this Gomah too much, either. All we saw was one punch where he was overpowered before Gomah used magic to drain Goku of his energy. I would say this episode showed SSJ3 adult Vegeta is stronger than SSJ4 kid Goku, but that's the most that should be concluded.
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I know, and I ******* hate it. But I have to ******* try and hold on to some semblance of reason. Gohan at least has the benefit of the doubt with his Mysic transformation which I've internally equivocated to a Godly transformation since it came from a god, even if it doesn't have godly ki. Piccolo, IDK, legendary Namekian stuff. And besides, at least in this scenario, there isn't nearly as much evidence to support such a massive jump. Here, based on the evidence presented, you'd have to basically argue that base form = SSJ3.
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Ya just gotta accept it lad, DBZ hasn't given a **** about consistent multiplier scaling since BoG. Hell even the form scaling makes no sense, you'll have SSJ1 throw hands and not explode into a puddle with a dude who's beating the shit out of a form 100x stronger or some shit.
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Spinoirr
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Oh god. Like, genuinely oh god. If that is translated correctly, it's over boys. Cisco's worst fears have been realized considering even Base Kid Daima Goku was putting the business on Gomah before he got the Third Eye.
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They've never done that with any of these hype statements before, so what would cause them to do that now ?
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But obviously Gomah is above Buu given he's able to fight a stronger SSJ3 Vegeta.
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True, he’s just stronger then Broly
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Yeah It's clearly talking about Buu Arc and prior threats, not Dragon Ball Super level (unless somehow an explanation on how powerful Daima Goku was with SSJ4 is introduced and he is even remotely comparable to current DBS folks [Which I'm not 100% throwing away the possibility, Toyotaro has the opportunity to show off how powerful he was on a later date just as much as he has the opportunity to create SSJ5] . If THAT happens, well, I'm done... I'm just done)
insert John Cena pulling out belt meme
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Beerus would still somehow end up scaling above him and even himself, the ever moving goalpost...
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Spinoirr
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It's this, bro has passively always growing stronger in reaction to others powers and regenerates and has infinite stamina
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This was made with the context they have of future episodes, unlike us, since the episodes had already been pre-produced by them, meaning they already knew that Gomah would get stronger with the Third Eye. And I don't really see how it changes much or any of the arguments I provided before. It's clear that Gomah is stronger than Kid Buu.
God, trying to make sense of all this freaking scaling is messing with my head. I hate it.
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Are people being purposely dumb and obtuse?
Gomah being called the strongest obviously refers to all past foes the heroes have met until that particular time. EP 17 gomah>everyone before
What is with these lousy extractions?
Gomah being called the strongest obviously refers to all past foes the heroes have met until that particular time. EP 17 gomah>everyone before
What is with these lousy extractions?
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Is Base Daima Goku stronger than Buu Saga SSJ3?
Dust_Collector
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Of course he is, the GOAT only needed a year at most to get that strong
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there isn’t any evidence to say that from what I’ve seen/heard
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Orange Piccolo was also a "bonus" and it definitely wasn't temporary, and now he can tap SSJ4 at it at will without Neva's help
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Uhh thing is the form is in fact officially called SS4.
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Let’s be real here though, even though it was said about SSJ2/SSJ3, we know for a fact that just training and mastering the forms can make it as stronger as the next lvl. This would had been a PERFECT opportunity to have SSB2. In reality, SSJ and SSJ2 barely use any energy and only SSJ3 was known to take a crap ton of energy away
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