Dragon Ball Super Cosmology Discussion

[Planck69]

Due to this thread, contention arose on whether or not the universes in Dragon Ball Super are their own space-time continuums. As suggested later in said thread, this one will be a discussion to iron out the actual nature of the 12 universes in the series.

I ask all people to keep this discussion civil and polite.

 

[manu_zarri]

just asking again for confirm

Low 1-C zeno come from space time continuums?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And the time for war begins.

 

[Planck69]

@AKM sama @Elizhaa @Theglassman12 @Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @DemonGodMitchAubin

Your advice here would be appreciated.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hope people are receptive to both sides of discussion....take this seriously.
No goofing around......atleast not too much...hehe

 

[VinnyXD]

Here we

 

[Planck69]

@Lormac_CC , @Bernkastel and everyone else;

Just click on the Follow button. Don't clutter this thread anymore than it needs to be.

 

[VinnyXD]

Hope people are receptive to both sides of discussion....take this seriously.
No goofing around......atleast not too much...hehe

I promise nothing

 

[StrymULTRA]

This blog was pretty much the reason why it got upgraded, and I gonna debunk it bit by bit:

• It mixed Manga and Anime, which are counted as separate continuites, so is wrong regardless
• Random Fairy Tail scans used as arguments
• Universes still being physically connected in this pic, them being separated was just because of an huge mental gymnastic

Also, there are these two posts which I heavily suggest to read.

So in short, everyone should go to 3-A, Zamasu didn't even fuse with the space-time either.

 

[Cyberblader90]

This blog was pretty much the reason why it got upgraded, and I gonna debunk it bit by bit:

• It mixed Manga and Anime, which are counted as separate continuites, so is wrong regardless
• Random Fairy Tail scans used as arguments
• Universes still being physically connected in this pic, them being separated was just because of an huge mental gymnastic

Also, there are these two posts which I heavily suggest to read.

So in short, everyone should go to 3-A, Zamasu didn't even fuse with the space-time either.

your pic doesnt show

 

[StrymULTRA]

your pic doesnt show

Now?

 

[Cyberblader90]

yup now it does

 

[Bernkastelll]

This blog was pretty much the reason why it got upgraded, and I gonna debunk it bit by bit:

• It mixed Manga and Anime, which are counted as separate continuites, so is wrong regardless
• Random Fairy Tail scans used as arguments
• Universes still being physically connected in this pic, them being separated was just because of an huge mental gymnastic

Also, there are these two posts which I heavily suggest to read.

So in short, everyone should go to 3-A, Zamasu didn't even fuse with the space-time either.

I guess you're talking about only the anime rating here, right?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I guess you're talking about only the anime rating here, right?

Yeah, we don't have much manga profiles anyways

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Staying neutral right now, but I will say there should be a huge no against combining the anime and manga as evidence. 2 different continuities being used at once that conflict with each other is obviously not okay.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Staying neutral right now, but I will say there should be a huge no against combining the anime and manga as evidence. 2 different continuities being used at once that conflict with each other is obviously not okay.

We should make different topics to Manga and Anime, their rating are not the same anyways

 

[StrymULTRA]

Staying neutral right now, but I will say there should be a huge no against combining the anime and manga as evidence. 2 different continuities being used at once that conflict with each other is obviously not okay.

It was literally used the stuff from the manga that made Zeno legit a Tier 2 to make Anime one as well, so is pretty much that the evidence was manipulated at the time.

 

[Bernkastelll]

It was literally used the stuff from the manga that made Zeno legit a Tier 2 to make Anime one as well, so is pretty much that the evidence was manipulated at the time.

Pretty much, manga zeno should be tier 2 due the time ring being erased, however, it didnt happend on anime

 

[Planck69]

Let's just wait for other staff to arrive and defend the reasoning for the current tiering.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We already had a bunch of discussions, but I really do not think anything major should be changed.

Infinite Zamasu was outright stated to be merging with the Universe; and he also appears in other timelines; so he is merging on a space-time level. And Quilted multiverse is a bigger assumption; they're still different bodies of space. And also, a Quilted multiverse is simply one body of space containing an infinite number of parallel observable universes; High 3-A sized. But there are debates on whether timelines are Bubble multiverses or Brane cosmologies.

However, I believe the latter is far more likely; a Brane cosmology is basically timelines containing multiple timelines and can vary greatly in size; they can be anywere between 2-C and Low 1-A sized. But Low 1-C and above should only be used if stacking uncountable infinities together; 5-D multiverses contain uncountable infinite number of 4-D universes; 6-D multiverses contain uncountable infinite number of 5-D multiverses, ect. But Timelines in Dragon Ball only have 12-18. And Universe 7 has multiple "Barriers of time and space" statements that Toriyama uses throughout all continuities. And even Zamasu's example shows him merging with at least one space-time continuum. Which appears to be Universe 7; and Zeno had to nuked all 12 universes to kill him apparently. Hence why he's 2-C; he'd be Low 2-C even if Brane cosmology gets downgraded to Bubble Multiverse.

But anyway, Zamasu is clearly Low 2-C in his Infinite form; he is literally becoming one with time and space while only merged with Universe 7. Unless Universe 7 is a 3-A sized pocket reality; which is unlikely and a bigger assumption, that is a Low 2-C feat right there. And those who scale above him are also Low 2-C.

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

I came at a rather precarious time.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

We already had a bunch of discussions, but I really do not think anything major should be changed.

Infinite Zamasu was outright stated to be merging with the Universe; and he also appears in other timelines; so he is merging on a space-time level. And Quilted multiverse is a bigger assumption; they're still different bodies of space. And also, a Quilted multiverse is simply one body of space containing an infinite number of parallel observable universes; High 3-A sized. But there are debates on whether timelines are Bubble multiverses or Brane cosmologies.

However, I believe the latter is far more likely; a Brane cosmology is basically timelines containing multiple timelines and can vary greatly in size; they can be anywere between 2-C and Low 1-A sized. But Low 1-C and above should only be used if stacking uncountable infinities together; 5-D multiverses contain uncountable infinite number of 4-D universes; 6-D multiverses contain uncountable infinite number of 5-D multiverses, ect. But Timelines in Dragon Ball only have 12-18. And Universe 7 has multiple "Barriers of time and space" statements that Toriyama uses throughout all continuities. And even Zamasu's example shows him merging with at least one space-time continuum. Which appears to be Universe 7; and Zeno had to nuked all 12 universes to kill him apparently. Hence why he's 2-C; he'd be Low 2-C even if Brane cosmology gets downgraded to Bubble Multiverse.

But anyway, Zamasu is clearly Low 2-C in his Infinite form; he is literally becoming one with time and space while only merged with Universe 7. Unless Universe 7 is a 3-A sized pocket reality; which is unlikely and a bigger assumption, that is a Low 2-C feat right there. And those who scale above him are also Low 2-C.

The timeline thing was only because of the prior time ring/time machine portal, though. That's the reason given to prevent him from being At Least Low 2-C.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But anyway, Zamasu is clearly Low 2-C in his Infinite form; he is literally becoming one with time and space while only merged with Universe 7. Unless Universe 7 is a 3-A sized pocket reality; which is unlikely and a bigger assumption, that is a Low 2-C feat right there. And those who scale above him are also Low 2-C.

Issue here is assuming that he did merge when nothing stated so, only the eng dub did. Also, it appearing at the other timeline means nothing, as is simply range, unless now Zamasu is immediately 2-C for this, is simply 3-A but on an higher level.

Also, the 12 universes are clearly treated as part of the same space-time continuum as they're still physically connected.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

The timeline thing was only because of the prior time ring/time machine portal, though. That's the reason given to prevent him from being At Least Low 2-C.

Infinite Zamasu never used a portal though. The Time ring was the only way the portal could even be used which IZ no longer possesses

 

[StrymULTRA]

To make it worse, Zeno didn't even erase the totality of the timeline, since the time machine could still time travel to the future timeline, as only the space got erased. This already supports my point of Zamasu becoming just one with space

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Infinite Zamasu never used a portal. The Time ring was the only way the portal could even be used which IZ no longer possesses

That's not my argument, that's what was said to prevent an upgrade of IZ to "At Least Low 2-C". If he couldn't pass through on his own, then it has nothing to do with his own power, which means he's not affecting time at all.

 

[Planck69]

To make it worse, Zeno didn't even erase the totality of the timeline, since the time machine could still time travel to the future timeline, as only the space got erased. This already supports my point of Zamasu becoming just one with space

I will point out that nothing stops him from just erasing a specific part of space-time so this doesn't really support that.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Medeus makes sense. Do we really need to have this argument yet again?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

This whole problem stems from unclear interpretations of universal or multiversal. People from off site think to themselves, "Why is destroying multiple universal dimensions 3-A?"
You want my opinion? We got prettey doo doo tier 2 stuff, tier 2 is too controversial to ever be changed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's just range and nothing else, as it was counted at the time just a range feat which would've become AP over time, nothing stops this even with the 3-A rating.

I will point out that nothing stops him from just erasing a specific part of space-time so this doesn't really support that.

Unquantifiable 4-D, so not much a point

 

[sanicspood]

I think that Medeus makes sense. Do we really need to have this argument yet again?

if people have actual refutes sure

 

[Cyberblader90]

i mean if new info comes to light, then yes there should be a discussion. One of the blogs mixed canons, for example

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Tier 2 in general is a headache, I'll agree with that. Even more than Tier 1 imo.

Honestly, I don't really care how this ends, I'm just dotting things in as I see them.

 

[Planck69]

This whole problem stems from unclear interpretations of universal or multiversal. People from off site think to themselves, "Why is destroying multiple universal dimensions 3-A?"
You want my opinion? We got prettey doo doo tier 2 stuff, tier 2 is too controversial to ever be changed.

I think this discussion really kicked off when it became apparent that DB timelines encompassing the 12 universes would be Low 1-C as we currently treat them.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I think this discussion really kicked off when it became apparent that DB timelines encompassing the 12 universes would be Low 1-C as we currently treat them.

What the hell?

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

That's not my argument, that's what was said to prevent an upgrade of IZ to "At Least Low 2-C". If he couldn't pass through on his own, then it has nothing to do with his own power.

I'm aware however IIRC DDM mentioned in that thread that IZ is above baseline although how much is unknown.

 

[sanicspood]

What the hell?

yea a ton of people were arguing this in the last thread lol

 

[Tyranno223]

What the hell?

The questions and answers thread devolved into a special sort of madness.

 

[PLNate]

yea a ton of people were arguing this in the last thread lol

yeah

 

[Planck69]

What the hell?

TL;DR an overarching timeline onto which regular space-time continuums are embedded would be Low 1-C since it's equivalent to uncountably infinite moments that contain 4-dimensional universes.

This seems to be the case with timelines in Dragon Ball Super.

Anyway, let's stay on topic please.