Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[TiltedFN]

Ok so you guys don't seem to get the point so let me explain.

Hakai was only ever demonstrated to affect mind spirit soul.

Zamasu can regenerate from that erasure.

Hakai wasn't affecting his abstraction.

Spirit bomb sword negs his mid-godly destroying his mind spirit and soul

He now exists as an abstraction. He has no mind spirit or soul so therefore the regeneration is pointless.

Zeno can EE him which means he can interact with his abstraction. Zeno however can't just do this cross verse as those characters would also need to demonstrate having an abstraction like that they rely on as he isn't deleting their concepts. Zeno is never shown to be able to negate mid-godly directly.

What are you waffling about? He literally DID bro. You saying infinite zamasu doesnt have it is just head canon bruh.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Yup. Doesn't make sense to me but it's whatever.

Guess he does have mid-godly negation!

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

What are you waffling about? He literally DID bro. You saying infinite zamasu doesnt have it is just head canon bruh.

I can probably change that.

 

[TiltedFN]

Anymore potential wincons for ichigo? Because as i see it, Goku just wins.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Anymore potential wincons for ichigo? Because as i see it, Goku just wins.

Switch to a timeline/future where he doesn't use time stop.

 

[TiltedFN]

Switch to a timeline/future where he doesn't use time stop.

Doesn't even work like that, when has almighty even been shown to work like that? He alters the future and it becomes a reality in the main one, he picks one of the possible futures, like to revive himself.

 

[Ss3micah]

Switch to a timeline/future where he doesn't use time stop.

Omnipresence counters
Given that stats are equal as well
Goku's Omnipresence would have range equal to the Almighty's range

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

So

Immortality 5 (from DBS manga angels), Mid-Godly Regen, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, AE 1, NEP 1 NPI, Time Stop, and Passive Reality Warping, Power Null, and Sealing...

How does Composite Bleach beat this?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Omnipresence counters
Given that stats are equal as well
Goku's Omnipresence would have range equal to the Almighty's range

So his HDE is on a 2-A scale...? How is that fair.

 

[TiltedFN]

So

Immortality 5 (from DBS manga angels), Mid-Godly Regen, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, AE 1, NEP 1 NPI, Time Stop, and Passive Reality Warping, Power Null, and Sealing...

How does Composite Bleach beat this?

it doesn't

 

[TiltedFN]

Omnipresence counters
Given that stats are equal as well
Goku's Omnipresence would have range equal to the Almighty's range

even if it wasn't, how would 2-A fate manip even hurt goku?

 

[Ss3micah]

So his HDE is on a 2-A scale...? How is that fair.

Stats are equal all across the board my friend
Benefits and Disadvantages occur for all parties
Stats equal is what is preventing Ichigo from being speed blitzed lolol

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Stats are equal all across the board my friend
Benefits and Disadvantages occur for all parties
Stats equal is what is preventing Ichigo from being speed blitzed lolol

But there was no chance in first place if his HDE was equal to Almighty's range. Existence is way more busted than range. Existing on a 2-A scale means anything that happens is irrelevant.

 

[TiltedFN]

But there was no chance in first place if his HDE was equal to Almighty's range. Existence is way more busted than range. Existing on a 2-A scale means anything that happens is irrelevant.

bro even if we didnt give hde 2-A range, what would change? How would the almighty affect it in the first place?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

bro even if we didnt give hde 2-A range, what would change? How would the almighty affect it in the first place?

Change the timeline which his HDE is bound to since he is literally a universe.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Ok so you guys don't seem to get the point so let me explain.

Hakai was only ever demonstrated to affect mind spirit soul.

Zamasu can regenerate from that erasure.

Hakai wasn't affecting his abstraction.

Spirit bomb sword negs his mid-godly destroying his mind spirit and soul

He now exists as an abstraction. He has no mind spirit or soul so therefore the regeneration is pointless.

Zeno can EE him which means he can interact with his abstraction. Zeno however can't just do this cross verse as those characters would also need to demonstrate having an abstraction like that they rely on as he isn't deleting their concepts. Zeno is never shown to be able to negate mid-godly directly.

Bleach characters hold on EE 4D?

 

[TiltedFN]

Change the timeline which his HDE is bound to since he is literally a universe.

destroying the universe wont get rid of him bro, he will still remain, and can almighty even do that? Change the entire timelines, instead of just changes within it? Yhwach has 2-A fate hax based on range, because it can reach into those timelines and change events within them, not actually change or destroy the entire timeline.

 

[TiltedFN]

Change the timeline which his HDE is bound to since he is literally a universe.

Like is said, we have to look at what yhwach actually used the almighty for, which was placing traps behind ichigos feat and breaking his bankai, which btw was only wielded by a 4-B ichigo at the moment.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

destroying the universe wont get rid of him bro, he will still remain, and can almighty even do that? Change the entire timelines, instead of just changes within it? Yhwach has 2-A fate hax based on range, because it can reach into those timelines and change events within them, not actually change or destroy the entire timeline.

I never said destroy the universe. He can change events of entire timeline which would have to effect IZ.

 

[TiltedFN]

I never said destroy the universe. He can change events of entire timeline which would have to effect IZ.

He can slightly alter the future, if he can do it on a scale as massive as removing or even affected a HDE being, i highly doubt it, and should be questoned.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also listen. The entire point of the match is also invalidated when you realize IZ stuff has to be tier 2 no matter what. He isn't some being who has 4 spatial dimensions. He is literally the entire universe. Space and time.

 

[TiltedFN]

Also listen. The entire point of the match is also invalidated when you realize IZ stuff has to be tier 2 no matter what. He isn't some being who has 4 spatial dimensions. He is literally the entire universe. Space and time.

This is relevant how?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

He can slightly alter the future, if he can do it on a scale as massive as removing or even affected a HDE being, i highly doubt it, and should be questoned.

Said changes to timeline/causality should be IZ's very being. Therefore he is directly changing him

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Change the timeline which his HDE is bound to since he is literally a universe.

In fact, this will not stop infinite Zamasu, destroying will not kill him, it takes EE which affects abstraction to erase Zamasu.

If it was up to destroying the universe only Goku could have done that and Zamasu was erased on a massive scale.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This is relevant how?

Defeats entire point of equalized stats.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

If IZ HDE has to give him tier 2 AP and dura and hax are also equalized to each other. Then everyone else has to have 4D existence and durability/AP due to nature on how they work.

 

[TiltedFN]

Said changes to timeline/causality should be IZ's very being. Therefore he is directly changing him

Almighty hasn't been shown to directly affect people with the almighty or HDE beings, this was already went over,

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Almighty hasn't been shown to directly affect people with the almighty or HDE beings, this was already went over,

It's basic logic dude. If a dude is an entire timeline being able to affect the timeline should logically affect the dude who is the timeline.

 

[Ss3micah]

But there was no chance in first place if his HDE was equal to Almighty's range. Existence is way more busted than range. Existing on a 2-A scale means anything that happens is irrelevant.

Well OOF
I would have Assumed Ichigo would have been able to do something with Book of the End to just Manipulate the Past to prevent Goku from going Abstract....
But then I remembered that Goku would have Acausal 1 so even Past Manipulation would not stop him, not to mention goku would also have access to Duplication and Time Travel.

I suppose the most Ichigo could do is just become nonexistent and stay nonexistent
Oh wait already created a counter to that, Void Hax can interact, Bleach EE resistance is Limited so likely gets Steamrolled by Hakai EE and Memory Wiping would not work due to IP2
The Miracle's Regen is also countered by Regen Negation
And Abstract Interaction is something no one in bleach can do and even if they could Goku could counter with Infinite Time Stop


My Goodness
Well I'll be damned Composite DB Hax can beat Bleach

 

[TiltedFN]

Well OOF
I would have Assumed Ichigo would have been able to do something with Book of the End to just Manipulate the Past to prevent Goku from going Abstract....
But then I remembered that Goku would have Acausal 1 so even Past Manipulation would not stop him, not to mention goku would also have access to Duplication and Time Travel.

I suppose the most Ichigo could do is just become nonexistent and stay nonexistent
Oh wait already created a counter to that, Void Hax can interact, Bleach EE resistance is Limited so likely gets Steamrolled by Hakai EE and Memory Wiping would not work due to IP2
The Miracle's Regen is also countered by Regen Negation
And Abstract Interaction is something no one in bleach can do and even if they could Goku could counter with Infinite Time Stop


My Goodness
Well I'll be Composite DB Hax can beat Bleach

Never would've of thought lol

 

[TiltedFN]

It's basic logic dude. If a dude is an entire timeline being able to affect the timeline should logically affect the dude who is the timeline.

Like I said, affecting the timeline doesn't get rid of IZ, and Fate Manipulation is the ability to manipulate destiny itself to achieve a desired result. More subtle forms of the ability can simply nudge events in the users favor while more powerful variations can make it possible to ordain one's victory against their opponent. He cant affect the entire timelines, its 2-A because he can reach them and affect the events within them.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Well OOF
I would have Assumed Ichigo would have been able to do something with Book of the End to just Manipulate the Past to prevent Goku from going Abstract....
But then I remembered that Goku would have Acausal 1 so even Past Manipulation would not stop him, not to mention goku would also have access to Duplication and Time Travel.

I suppose the most Ichigo could do is just become nonexistent and stay nonexistent
Oh wait already created a counter to that, Void Hax can interact, Bleach EE resistance is Limited so likely gets Steamrolled by Hakai EE and Memory Wiping would not work due to IP2
The Miracle's Regen is also countered by Regen Negation
And Abstract Interaction is something no one in bleach can do and even if they could Goku could counter with Infinite Time Stop


My Goodness
Well I'll be damned Composite DB Hax can beat Bleach

Goku has randomness type 1 and he is unaffected by changes in the past (with time ring)

And he can go into any future that Ichigo tries to change.

 

[Ss3micah]

It's basic logic dude. If a dude is an entire timeline being able to affect the timeline should logically affect the dude who is the timeline.

This is unfortunately true and not true
Your right and wrong at the same time but mostly right
In IZ case as a living timeline..
If you nuked the Timeline then the Abstraction would survive as you lack the NPI to affect them.... however they would be Incapped as you essentially nuked what their Abstraction covers.

So timeline nuking would not kill IZ, but it would leave him alive in a state where he pretty much cant do anything at all

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This is unfortunately true and not true
Your right and wrong at the same time but mostly right
In IZ case as a living timeline..
If you nuked the Timeline then the Abstraction would survive as you lack the NPI to affect them.... however they would be Incapped as you essentially nuked what their Abstraction covers.

So timeline nuking would not kill IZ, but it would leave him alive in a state where he pretty much cant do anything at all

Wasn't even trying to argue timeline nuking. Just that change the timeline so that Ichigo could fully use his NEP.

 

[TiltedFN]

This is unfortunately true and not true
Your right and wrong at the same time but mostly right
In IZ case as a living timeline..
If you nuked the Timeline then the Abstraction would survive as you lack the NPI to affect them.... however they would be Incapped as you essentially nuked what their Abstraction covers.

So timeline nuking would not kill IZ, but it would leave him alive in a state where he pretty much cant do anything at all

He can't do this via almighty tho, thats not how it works, so goku still slams before yhwach even has a chance to destroy the universe, and isnt zamasu 2-C because of fusing with the entire macrocosm, which yhwach cant destroy all at once, he would have to go one by one, and he would already be negged because ichigo would require time to do it, which he doesnt have in this case because of time stop.

 

[Ss3micah]

Memory wiping would still work lmfao. They still have ki which means they have a mind.

Robots like Pirate Robot dont have Ki lol
They cant even be sensed due to completely lacking life energy

Wasn't even trying to argue timeline nuking. Just that change the timeline so that Ichigo could fully use his NEP.

If Goku (using IZ's AE) had his correct range of 2-C
Then yeah, timeline swapping would carry you to a timeline where another Goku who has also become Abstract would be since Almighty is meant to take you into the Future and if Goku is already existing as an Abstract entity in the present then going to another future would be a Future in which he's already Abstract since him becoming Abstract already happened and Ichigo cant change the past?

I actually dont know
If Abstract Goku already exists in the present then if Ichigo used Almighty to go to another timeline.... wouldn't he just to another timeline where another Abstract Goku is already present since every possibility the Almighty sees is a future of the current existing present in which Goku is already Abstract?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I actually dont know
If Abstract Goku already exists in the present then if Ichigo used Almighty to go to another timeline.... wouldn't he just to another timeline where another Abstract Goku is already present since every possibility the Almighty sees is a future of the current existing present in which Goku is already Abstract?

Uhhh... maybe?

 

[TiltedFN]

Uhhh... maybe?

Which gets countered by time stop instantly, and we dont know if that would even affect HDE or AE 1

 

[TiltedFN]

Robots like Pirate Robot dont have Ki lol
They cant even be sensed due to completely lacking life energy

If Goku (using IZ's AE) had his correct range of 2-C
Then yeah, timeline swapping would carry you to a timeline where another Goku who has also become Abstract would be since Almighty is meant to take you into the Future and if Goku is already existing as an Abstract entity in the present then going to another future would be a Future in which he's already Abstract since him becoming Abstract already happened and Ichigo cant change the past?

I actually dont know
If Abstract Goku already exists in the present then if Ichigo used Almighty to go to another timeline.... wouldn't he just to another timeline where another Abstract Goku is already present since every possibility the Almighty sees is a future of the current existing present in which Goku is already Abstract?

Ichigo can just alter the future slighty to win, just look at all the showings of the almighty when he alters the future, none of that implies he could bring forth a future where IZ doesn't exist

 

[Ss3micah]

Uhhh... maybe?

Great
Then even against 2-C range, the Almighty would do little favors

Ichigo can just alter the future slighty to win, just look at all the showings of the almighty when he alters the future, none of that implies he could bring forth a future where IZ doesn't exist

He would not be able to bring forth a future where Abstract Goku would not exist because the Almighty specifically changes the future. Even if we do apply Timeline swapping, Abstract Goku already exists in the present and any future Ichigo would go to would simply has it's own Future Variant of Abstract Goku regardless