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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

SwordLegendz01 said:
Ah my fault🐾
But considering some of the staff also saw his regen getting messed up because of being held by Black's body, and luckily LordGriffin gave us the only way for that thread.

I'll probably take a look at this and watch it, if anyone wants to fix that rating with the justification thread for the previous thread, but I thought it might be quite a pain to wrap up. But yes, provided that Future Trunks has long been accepted as having negation of regeneration.
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Well I’m planning on making a crt to remove the possibly characters get for upscaling Buu and Gotenks and making it look better formatted on profiles so I could include that trunks stuff in my crt briefly but I would probably suggest doing Mid High & Mid Godly Negation since the spirit bomb also nullified Buu’s regen which is where mid high comes from
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Well it should be outright Mid-Godly because that's what Fusion Zamasu's regen is rated as
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It's in the justification for the sentence about neg regen for Future Trunks, and yes his immortality is being held by Black's body although we don't know to what extent, and even his immortality being withheld is Atsushi Kido still considers him a "cheat" character by Dragon Ball world standards coinciding with the release of episode 66 it would be hard to change the animation again in less than 3 days. So it's hard to ignore the facts.
 
godofice said:
Well I’m planning on making a crt to remove the possibly characters get for upscaling Buu and Gotenks and making it look better formatted on profiles so I could include that trunks stuff in my crt briefly but I would probably suggest doing Mid High & Mid Godly Negation since the spirit bomb also nullified Buu’s regen which is where mid high comes from
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However it says all of Buu's cells were completely wiped out, but it's a bit difficult for this considering it's an argument that Golden Void and Damage in that thread argue for.
 
godofice said:
Wdym
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Well, pretty neutral on this. Can't ignore the implied fact that all of Kid Buu's cells were wiped out. However, it's either the neg regen or just the infinite destruction effect of the Super Spirit Bomb. But yeah, the Mid-High neg comes from Atsushi Kido's statement about the "Cheat" character coinciding with Future Trunks' SoH debut.
 
SwordLegendz01 said:
Well, pretty neutral on this. Can't ignore the implied fact that all of Kid Buu's cells were wiped out. However, it's either the neg regen or just the infinite destruction effect of the Super Spirit Bomb. But yeah, the Mid-High neg comes from Atsushi Kido's statement about the "Cheat" character coinciding with Future Trunks' SoH debut.
Click to expand...
I don’t see the argument here and I don’t see why being a cheat character would give you mid high
 
2-C = Buuhan < Kid Buu ~ Post-Vegito Division Super Saiyan 3 Goku <<< Post-Revitalization Super Saiyan Goku <<<<<< Post-Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku <<< Hirudegarn <<< Janemba <<< Super Gogeta < Super Vegito

Ultimate Gohan is at least 1/2 of Buuhan as a lowball. He matched Buutenks (who only overpowered him after he got tired in Toei DBZ), so Buutenks should be at least 1/2 of Buuhan. Gotenks should be at least 1/2 of Buutenks since he had the advantage over Super Buu, whom added the former's power to his own by absorbing him. Super Buu held his own against Gotenks. Super Buu should be about 4 times weaker than Buuhan as a lowball.

The real headache is making the Post-Vegito Division bullshit work 💀
 
godofice said:
Luffy was gonna make a crt about that i had been waiting for him to do it for a while
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I think if someone tries it maybe it can come out better than mine
SwordLegendz01 said:
Alright
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You can do it bro! But I don't know if it will be accepted, I'll send you the topic that was trying to do this and then you address all the arguments.

here is the topic that was discussed, you would have to address the counterarguments before anyone mentions it, in order for it to be accepted.

Use that mention of Sidra, where no being goes to the afterlife when he is hit by the hakai and ending his resurrection through the afterlife that purifies your entire soul and sends you back for a new body (being another being)
 
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LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I think if someone tries it maybe it can come out better than mine

You can do it bro! But I don't know if it will be accepted, I'll send you the topic that was trying to do this and then you address all the arguments.

here is the topic that was discussed, you would have to address the counterarguments before anyone mentions it, in order for it to be accepted.

Use that mention of Sidra, where no being goes to the afterlife when he is hit by the hakai and ending his resurrection through the afterlife that purifies your entire soul and sends you back for a new body (being another being)
Click to expand...
The arguments were that it was redundant which is a bad argument since accuracy is all that matters
SirAlex09 said:
Part 2: Jiren and Zeno don't resist Hakai XDDD. I wonder why Beerus and Co are still listening to the little midget
Click to expand...
Changing that
 
SirAlex09 said:
Part 2: Jiren and Zeno don't resist Hakai XDDD. I wonder why Beerus and Co are still listening to the little midget
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Beerus can't kill him with hakai (if that were the case, all Gods of Destruction would try to kill him and Beerus already explained this during the anime) Zeno'oh doesn't fight, but he has the ability to erase anything in moments.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Guys, I was reviewing the manga and it seems that the Daishinkan may have abilities to manipulate the laws of angels, shall we discuss this?
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I assume you mean this? To me it sounds like the Grand Priest just destroyed Merus before he was erased by the laws and then remade him as a mortal so he wouldn't be subject to them anymore. It's less the Grand Priest manipulating the laws of Angels and more him just exploiting a loophole. Put another way, are we going to give every lawyer 'law manipulation' for finding loopholes for clients? Just doesn't work.

It does serve as a good intelligence feat though, it shows the GP is well aware of how to abuse and bypass the restrictions on his existence if needed.

Despite what I said though, it would be good if we could bring up the original Japanese scan and maybe get someone to translate it. For all we know the Viz translation is inaccurate.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I assume you mean this? To me it sounds like the Grand Priest just destroyed Merus before he was erased by the laws and then remade him as a mortal so he wouldn't be subject to them anymore. It's less the Grand Priest manipulating the laws of Angels and more him just exploiting a loophole. Put another way, are we going to give every lawyer 'law manipulation' for finding loopholes for clients? Just doesn't work.

It does serve as a good intelligence feat though, it shows the GP is well aware of how to abuse and bypass the restrictions on his existence if needed.

Despite what I said though, it would be good if we could bring up the original Japanese scan and maybe get someone to translate it. For all we know the Viz translation is inaccurate.
Click to expand...
It's not that quote, he has a quote mentioned before about the laws of angels and Whis asks him about it, his comment has nothing to do.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
It's not that quote, he has a quote mentioned before about the laws of angels and Whis asks him about it, his comment has nothing to do.
Click to expand...
Okay, then it must be this right? I can't think of any other instances of him discussing the Angel law. In these pages it's stated that the GP enforces Angel law and seems to more or less serve as the judge for them, with him deciding when it's 'too far' and the Angel needs to be erased. However we are also shown that the GP found a loophole for Merus to save him so either he can't fully go against the law or he simply created the loophole to 'technically' follow his own law.

From there we're going to need to concretely argue that Angel law is integral to reality and isn't simply just akin to human law. Is the Grand Priest actually controlling the limits of a divine law? Or is it just a ruling made up by free will? Well it seems the erasure process is natural, given Beerus believes they would need to explain to the GP what happened, but the GP does allude to ending Merus himself prior to Whis making his case.

So:
  • Angelic law is integral to existence, it's not just made-up like human law and Merus is erased automatically for violating it
  • Yet the Grand Priest mentions 'ending Merus's tenure' himself, meaning either he would kill Merus himself or he chooses when the law takes effect (defining the law's limits)
  • The only reason Merus isn't erased there is because Whis provided a convincing argument to give him more leeway (greater limits)
There's no reason for the Grand Priest to step in and end Merus's tenure himself if the law is integral to existence like it's shown. Not unless the implication is that the Grand Priest has some level of control over that law, a law shown to be part of their very existence and taking effect automatically.

In short it does seem like the Grand Priest is actively controlling the law, meaning there is some argument for GP having Law Manipulation.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Okay, then it must be this right? I can't think of any other instances of him discussing the Angel law. In these pages it's stated that the GP enforces Angel law and seems to more or less serve as the judge for them, with him deciding when it's 'too far' and the Angel needs to be erased. However we are also shown that the GP found a loophole for Merus to save him so either he can't fully go against the law or he simply created the loophole to 'technically' follow his own law.

From there we're going to need to concretely argue that Angel law is integral to reality and isn't simply just akin to human law. Is the Grand Priest actually controlling the limits of a divine law? Or is it just a ruling made up by free will? Well it seems the erasure process is natural, given Beerus believes they would need to explain to the GP what happened, but the GP does allude to ending Merus himself prior to Whis making his case.

So:
  • Angelic law is integral to existence, it's not just made-up like human law and Merus is erased automatically for violating it
  • Yet the Grand Priest mentions 'ending Merus's tenure' himself, meaning either he would kill Merus himself or he chooses when the law takes effect (defining the law's limits)
  • The only reason Merus isn't erased there is because Whis provided a convincing argument to give him more leeway (greater limits)
There's no reason for the Grand Priest to step in and end Merus's tenure himself if the law is integral to existence like it's shown. Not unless the implication is that the Grand Priest has some level of control over that law, a law shown to be part of their very existence and taking effect automatically.

In short it does seem like the Grand Priest is actively controlling the law, meaning there is some argument for GP having Law Manipulation.
Click to expand...
Dude, thank you so much! You are simply amazing at putting together such an argument, I'm almost speechless, that's what I'm talking about, it is possible to argue that he can govern the laws of angels and during pages 52 to 56 it is mentioned about the laws of the Universes, if angels interfere create imbalance to the Universe (as Merus stated)

Also during the tournament it is mentioned that the Daishinkan is manipulating the whole tournament and putting rules for the participants not to be able to fly, I believe that it is manipulation of the law instead of annulling some thing
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Okay, then it must be this right? I can't think of any other instances of him discussing the Angel law. In these pages it's stated that the GP enforces Angel law and seems to more or less serve as the judge for them, with him deciding when it's 'too far' and the Angel needs to be erased. However we are also shown that the GP found a loophole for Merus to save him so either he can't fully go against the law or he simply created the loophole to 'technically' follow his own law.

From there we're going to need to concretely argue that Angel law is integral to reality and isn't simply just akin to human law. Is the Grand Priest actually controlling the limits of a divine law? Or is it just a ruling made up by free will? Well it seems the erasure process is natural, given Beerus believes they would need to explain to the GP what happened, but the GP does allude to ending Merus himself prior to Whis making his case.

So:
  • Angelic law is integral to existence, it's not just made-up like human law and Merus is erased automatically for violating it
  • Yet the Grand Priest mentions 'ending Merus's tenure' himself, meaning either he would kill Merus himself or he chooses when the law takes effect (defining the law's limits)
  • The only reason Merus isn't erased there is because Whis provided a convincing argument to give him more leeway (greater limits)
There's no reason for the Grand Priest to step in and end Merus's tenure himself if the law is integral to existence like it's shown. Not unless the implication is that the Grand Priest has some level of control over that law, a law shown to be part of their very existence and taking effect automatically.

In short it does seem like the Grand Priest is actively controlling the law, meaning there is some argument for GP having Law Manipulation.
Click to expand...
I really think you can make it happen, you are just amazing with it :3
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Also during the tournament it is mentioned that the Daishinkan is manipulating the whole tournament and putting rules for the participants not to be able to fly, I believe that it is manipulation of the law instead of annulling some thing
Click to expand...
I don't know why I think that occasionally Goku in ToP at the MUI level can break that rule even though at the beginning of the tournament he tried to fly and couldn't even, but I kinda forgot it was at what minute.
 
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