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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

I'm not getting why though. If we say the Neutral Space is 3 Spatial Dimensions + 1 Temporal Dimension + 1 Insignificant Spatial Dimension, why does the "+ 1 Insignificant Spatial Dimension" disappear when we add another Temporal Dimension?
I think we should stop discussing cringe dimensional tiering and talk about real shit, like how Dabura should actually scale to SPC and not regular Perfect Cell.
lol
 
I think we should stop discussing cringe dimensional tiering and talk about real shit, like how Dabura should actually scale to SPC and not regular Perfect Cell.
That could honestly be the case, although that’d also mean:
  • SSJ2 Gohan is way stronger than SPC, even though Gohan be greatly damaged by a ki blast from him. The only way that could make sense if he’s far stronger, is if we say he started out suppressed to continue taunting him and simply underestimated Cell’s new power.
  • The SSJ Gohan against Dabura is stronger than the calm SSJ Gohan against Cell (Gohan can fight Dabura comparably while calm Cell Games Gohan was greatly damaged by a supressed Cell) or that Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura which I don’t think is true tbh. This might be the case since his strength did stagnate, and then trained hard for the 25th budokai for iicr 6 days.
It’s weird lol
 
So basically it’d be like:
Calm SSJ Gohan (Cell Games) = SSJ Gohan (Saiyamen Chapters) < Cell (Pre-Zenkai) < SSJ Gohan (Post-6 day training) ~ Dabura = Super Perfect Cell < SSJ2 Gohan (Post-6 day training) < SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)
 
Didn't Gohan say the damage on his arm cut his energy in half? If we took that and Super Saiyan 2's guidebook multiplier of 2x Super Saiyan bluntly, wouldn't that put Peak Cell Games Super Saiyan Gohan on SPC's level or above?
 
Didn't Gohan say the damage on his arm cut his energy in half? If we took that and Super Saiyan 2's guidebook multiplier of 2x Super Saiyan bluntly, wouldn't that put Peak Cell Games Super Saiyan Gohan on SPC's level or above?
him getting hurt enough to be reduced to half ki by a casual Ki blast of a SPC who was "fooling arround" is.........circular, to say the least
 
him getting hurt enough to be reduced to half ki by a casual Ki blast of a SPC who was "fooling arround" is.........circular, to say the least

Gohan just kind of leapt to save Vegeta and wasn't ready for it. Defense was low. His peak power I'm talking about took a lot of motivation from Goku to fully unleash too.
 
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lol
 
Didn't Gohan say the damage on his arm cut his energy in half? If we took that and Super Saiyan 2's guidebook multiplier of 2x Super Saiyan bluntly, wouldn't that put Peak Cell Games Super Saiyan Gohan on SPC's level or above?
Why would half his ki refer to his power rather than just how much energy he has left?
 
Ah, yes, Gohan discussions. My favourite.
  • SSJ2 Gohan is way stronger than SPC, even though Gohan be greatly damaged by a ki blast from him. The only way that could make sense if he’s far stronger, is if we say he [1.1] started out suppressed to continue taunting him and [1.2] simply underestimated Cell’s new power.
[1.1] Gohan's power and his emotions are directly linked, and after Goku's death, Gohan succumbed to guilt, fear, and, ultimately, despair. By all accounts, up until Goku encouraged him and Vegeta provided an opportunity for him to destroy Cell, Gohan was subconsciously suppressed, which Goku confirms.

[1.2] Yes, Gohan underestimated the size of Cell's power-up.
him getting hurt enough to be reduced to half ki by a casual Ki blast of a SPC who was "fooling arround" is.........circular, to say the least
Refer to [1.1].
  • The SSJ Gohan against Dabura [2.1] is stronger than the calm SSJ Gohan against Cell ([2.2] Gohan can fight Dabura comparably while calm Cell Games Gohan was greatly damaged by a supressed Cell) or that Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura [2.3] which I don’t think is true tbh.
[2.1] The Super Saiyan Gohan that fought Dabura is explicitly stated to be weaker than the Super Saiyan Gohan that fought Cell. In fact, World Tournament Saga/Babidi Saga Gohan in general is described as weaker than his younger Cell Games Saga counterpart.

[2.2] Gohan visibly strains fighting back against Dabura, but Dabura was merely gauging Gohan's strength and is confident he can easily defeat Gohan.

[2.3] Good.
Calm SSJ Gohan (Cell Games) = SSJ Gohan (Saiyamen Chapters) < Cell (Pre-Zenkai) < SSJ Gohan (Post-6 day training) ~ Dabura = Super Perfect Cell < SSJ2 Gohan (Post-6 day training) < SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)
SSJ Gohan (vs. Dabura) < SSJ Gohan (vs. Cell) <<< Perfect Cell < Full Power SSJ Gohan < Super Perfect Cell = Dabura < SSJ2 Gohan (Tournament) < SSJ2 Gohan
Why would half his ki refer to his power rather than just how much energy he has left?
Gohan asserts that his Ki is less than half in response to Goku's urging to unleash a full-power Kamehameha, and Piccolo later confirms that Gohan's Ki is weaker.
 
It's sorta different in the anime continuity cause SPC isn't treated as all that strong there (Pikkon easily beat him) and Dabura had to amp himself to go against Gohan, and even he was completely caught off-guard by SSJ Buu Saga Gohan's full power.
 
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I think all of this is forgetting how it’s more than just emotions affecting Gohan’s power (potential), but how emotions and focus affect the literal power of Ki itself outside of that.

To quote myself and Toriyama:

Energy, Courage, and Right-Mindedness — The word ‘energy’ [genki] is well-known, but if one asks if you do not have energy if you have even one sickness [byōki], it is difficult to come up with an answer. There are people who are healthy yet do not have any energy, and there are people who are sick, yet full of energy. Plus, even among people who have roughly the same power, for example, there were people who gritted their teeth and stood their ground when Demon King Piccolo attacked them, yet there were also people who trembled and fled. Thinking about it this way, perhaps you will understand that a variety of different ‘Ki’ are indispensable in battle. In the world of Chinese martial arts, exemplified by T’ai-chi Ch’uan, kitraining and control is given great importance.

In Dragon Ball, the dark mage Bobbidi invented a machine that measures and absorbs ki, but current science cannot measure ki levels or store it anywhere. However, when someone cheers you on, you can ‘receive energy and courage [yūki]’ from them. ‘Ki’ is something that cannot be seen with the eyes, yet it is there.”

Something you can see in Roshi V Tien, where Roshi shaking Tien’s confidence literally made him weaker. He went from a kick so hard Roshi was nearly knocked out to not even phasing Roshi.

So Gohan’s doubt and will are double debuffs and buffs respectively in context to his lowered power and his amplified power.
 
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