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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

It's not necessarily wrong, it's just stupid PiS because Toriyama didn't give enough of a **** to make it logical.

Let's not forget that baby Goku when his power level was ******* 2 was doing just fine on Planet Vegeta where gravity was 10x. So according to canon Dragon Ball, Goku as an infant baby had higher lifting strength than Goku at the start of Z.
TBF he was in an incubator and then launched in a space pod IIRC, I think some places in Planet Vegeta weren't affected by Gravity.

Plus it's made a point Goku didn't resists that Gravity cause he didn't grow up there and that's why he is below his fellow Saiyans.
 
The Class M feat Goku did is before Goku even gets SSG. So via using multipliers we can actually get him decently high, but still finite in LS.

Pre-SSG: 55 KiloTons
Post BoG Base: 2750 KiloTons (assuming SSG is a 50x multiplier)
SSJ-SSG: 137 MegaTons
(SSB is 50x SSG)
SSB: 6.8 GigaTons
SSBKKX10: 68 GigaTons
SSB Post-Hit Rematch: 68 GigaTons
SSBKKX20: 1.3 PetaTons
UIO1-2: 1.3 PetaTons
Late-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 PetaTons
Late ToP SSBKKX20: 26 PetaTons
Base Gogeta: 1.3 PetaTons
SS Gogeta: 68 TeraTons
SSB Gogeta, MUI Goku, SSFP Broly: 3.4 ExaTons

So the final tally would be:
Post-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 TeraTons (Class P)
MUI Goku: 3.4 ExaTons (Class Z)

This is as high as we can get with the currently accepted multipliers, and assuming that multiplier applies to LS as well.

Getting near planetary lifting strength via multipliers from a class M feat, lmao.

****** up the numbers, fixed it.
 
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Let's say Goku was clsss T in lifting strength (around 800000000000000 kg) after surpassing raditz and kaioken, super saiyan all transformations and anything that amps power also Amps LS what would his LS even look like
 
Do we even have any better LS feats that are scalable to Goku?
Goku does have crazy lifting strength feats...it's just that they're totally incalculable because we don't know any details. Like him lifting/pushing/pulling weights on King Kai's Planet, the Whis training suits sinking into the ground on Beerus' planet, and the Pretty Black Hole which sink through Kachi Kachin and is compared to a real black hole multiple times.
 
The Class M feat Goku did is before Goku even gets SSG. So via using multipliers we can actually get him decently high, but still finite in LS.

Pre-SSG: 55 KiloTons
Post BoG Base: 2750 KiloTons (assuming SSG is a 50x multiplier)
SSJ-SSG: 137 MegaTons
(SSB is 50x SSG)
SSB: 6.8 GigaTons
SSBKKX10: 68 GigaTons
SSB Post-Hit Rematch: 68 GigaTons
SSBKKX20: 1.3 PetaTons
UIO1-2: 1.3 PetaTons
Late-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 PetaTons
Late ToP SSBKKX20: 26 PetaTons
Base Gogeta: 1.3 PetaTons
SS Gogeta: 68 TeraTons
SSB Gogeta, MUI Goku, SSFP Broly: 3.4 ExaTons

So the final tally would be:
Post-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 TeraTons (Class P)
MUI Goku: 3.4 ExaTons (Class Z)

This is as high as we can get with the currently accepted multipliers, and assuming that multiplier applies to LS as well.

Getting near planetary lifting

Why is MUI Goku on the same ballpark as Gogeta?

Gogeta in base outscales post ToP Goku and by going blue he is >>>2500x above that level

MUI has no accepted multiplier beyond the fact it’s above Blue Kaioken x20
 
I see few people commenting, but in the Metal Cooler movie, there is this talent of Goku and Cooler fighting in the middle of the teleportation break.


There is also another scene in that same video with another similar feat.
 
Goku does have crazy lifting strength feats...it's just that they're totally incalculable because we don't know any details. Like him lifting/pushing/pulling weights on King Kai's Planet, the Whis training suits sinking into the ground on Beerus' planet, and the Pretty Black Hole which sink through Kachi Kachin and is compared to a real black hole multiple times.
Too bad most of his feats can't be measured. I remember a feat in toeiverse, where goku pushes a planet raising ki, but I don't even know if that can be scaled to ls...
 
Too bad most of his feats can't be measured. I remember a feat in toeiverse, where goku pushes a planet raising ki, but I don't even know if that can be scaled to ls...
If the force of his Ki can do it, so can he. His Ki is what he uses to strengthen his body, and his body then becomes equal to the strength of his Ki, which is why Dragon Ball characters are comparable to their own Ki blast's, which are simply large concentrations of Ki.
 
Since DB is going through an upgrade season rn. I propose my own upgrade.

Super Saiyan God having an at least 100x multiplier.

Reasoning:
During the Battle of Gods Arc in DBS, after Goku gets slammed by Beerus with no effort, Goku states that not even a fusion (likely referring to Vegito) would've been capable of beating Beerus. Goku felt more confident fighting Beerus as a Super Saiyan God than fusing with Vegeta.

The problem is, in the manga, we don't exactly know much stronger Vegito is than Goku. In the anime, Vegito is capable of fighting Buuhan in base form. While in the manga, Vegito immediately turns Super Saiyan after appearing and beats Buuhan that way. There's no way to put a concrete multiplier of Potara fusion in the Buu Arc, all we knew is that Super Vegito is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Since there's no accepted multiplier for SS2 and SS3, all we end up with is a scaling chain.

Base Goku < SS Goku (50x) < SS2 Goku < SS3 Goku < SS Vegito < SSG Goku

So for the Super Saiyan God multiplier, I propose a solution. Giving Buu Arc Base Vegito a 2x multiplier over Base Goku. 2x is the most reasonable lowball for a fusion, since it combines the power of Goku and Vegeta, who's comparable to each other. And since Goku would most likely account for Vegito's transformations when making that statement, SSG is most likely stronger than SS Vegito. Thus giving Super Saiyan God a lowballed 100x multiplier.
 
I am all for dragon ball getting the boost it deserves as it's basically my favourite verse, but I also really want it to be accurate so as not to be treated as a joke, I have two worries


1) Goku and pikkon
One thing about the afterlife is that the structures are much bigger on the inside than outside, it's confirmed to have the dimensional transcendental property


"dimensionally transcendental" was worded very specifically and refers to having greater spaces inside than outside, it's a famous term in the Dr Who franchise

There is also primary proof,

Goku notes that the grand Kai's planet is quite small (or smaller than he thought), and we see a straight up relative shot with heaven in the series. By logic, grand Kai's planet contains stars inside, it should easily dwarf any single planet Goku has seen. Also, as secondary evidence, heaven's curvature from the outside and compare it with the ship Goku was on...there are stars in our universe whose curvature makes our sun look much smaller than that


No way is that planet universal on the outside, it looks more like a gas giant in size from the outside,not definitely is NOT universal being compared to both he grand Kai planet and the spaceship

My point is, using the fact that pikkon and Goku passed by heaven from the outside down to hell, should not used as they crossed a fully infinite universal distance, they would have to have crossed the afterlife itself or scale to an attack that does that (how BoG scales). Since they went from the structure at the top to the one at the bottom, using the full diameter of the observable universe as a conservative estimate should be the best and most accurate. Let's not sacrifice the verse's rep for upgrades no matter how nice it finally feels

2) 2C manga Buu

Buu was indeed a universal threat, but nothing said he would blow up the entire universe in one shot we can't just assume something this controversial, there are several inconsistencies with that. First off, cell arc ssj2 Gohan's PL was still a measuring stick in the buu arc, ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were stronger, but weren't stated to be astronomically so, or anything like that, and ? Goku also had ssj3 which was roughly around kid Buu's level, the gap from solar system+ to universal (just 3A) is....what? Sextillions? Dodecillions?. Also Beerus outright states that post Buu arc pre ritual base Goku isn't stronger than full power namek Frieza. 2C dbz characters debuted from BoG imo, the closest we got in z was buuhan via the dimensional collapse
 
Goku does have crazy lifting strength feats...it's just that they're totally incalculable because we don't know any details. Like him lifting/pushing/pulling weights on King Kai's Planet, the Whis training suits sinking into the ground on Beerus' planet, and the Pretty Black Hole which sink through Kachi Kachin and is compared to a real black hole multiple times.
The pretty black hole was calced but rejected at the time because the site didn't treat the attack as an actual black hole, I am making a crt to address that
 
It's a goofy heart shaped black hole powered by (likely literal) love. What would your argument be to treat it as an actual black hole?
 
DBS Infinite Speed

Assuming Post-BoG Base Goku as 1x baseline. X = Baseline Infinite speed. Lowballed.

SSG Goku: Baseline
Post-SSG Absorption SS Goku: 50x
Post BoG Base Goku: At least 100x (scales to at least twice the previous level of power of his Super Saiyan form)
SS Goku: At least 5,000x
SS2, SS3, SSG: At least 5,000x
SSB: At least 250,000x
SSBKKx10: At least 2,500,000x
SSB Post Hit-rematch: At least 2,500,000x
SSG Early ToP: At least 2,500,000x
SSB Early ToP: At least 125,000,000x
SSBKKx20: At least 2,500,000,000x
UIO1-2: At least 2,500,000,000x
Late-ToP SSB/Base Gogeta: At least 2,500,000,000x
Late-ToP SSBKKx20: At least 50,000,000,000x
SS Gogeta: At least 125,000,000,000x
SSB Gogeta, FPSS Broly, UI Goku: At least 6,250,000,000,000x

Does anyone know what Toei's would be starting from Otherworld Saga Base Goku?
Man if these multipliers applies to Lifting Strength you can crank up MUI Goku's LS to Pre-Stellar just by putting this multiplier and another 50x from Goku getting SSG at the first time
on Goku's Class M feat listed on his profile 💀
 
Since DB is going through an upgrade season rn. I propose my own upgrade.

Super Saiyan God having an at least 100x multiplier.

Reasoning:
During the Battle of Gods Arc in DBS, after Goku gets slammed by Beerus with no effort, Goku states that not even a fusion (likely referring to Vegito) would've been capable of beating Beerus. Goku felt more confident fighting Beerus as a Super Saiyan God than fusing with Vegeta.

The problem is, in the manga, we don't exactly know much stronger Vegito is than Goku. In the anime, Vegito is capable of fighting Buuhan in base form. While in the manga, Vegito immediately turns Super Saiyan after appearing and beats Buuhan that way. There's no way to put a concrete multiplier of Potara fusion in the Buu Arc, all we knew is that Super Vegito is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Since there's no accepted multiplier for SS2 and SS3, all we end up with is a scaling chain.

Base Goku < SS Goku (50x) < SS2 Goku < SS3 Goku < SS Vegito < SSG Goku

So for the Super Saiyan God multiplier, I propose a solution. Giving Buu Arc Base Vegito a 2x multiplier over Base Goku. 2x is the most reasonable lowball for a fusion, since it combines the power of Goku and Vegeta, who's comparable to each other. And since Goku would most likely account for Vegito's transformations when making that statement, SSG is most likely stronger than SS Vegito. Thus giving Super Saiyan God a lowballed 100x multiplier.
Well DBS does give us a stated multiplier for Potara Fusion: (0:33).

So a fusions power (likely their base form) is tens of times (so at least 20x) greater than the sum of their parts (so (Character A + Character B) x at least 20).
 
It's a goofy heart shaped black hole powered by (likely literal) love. What would your argument be to treat it as an actual black hole?
It's fiction, being heart-shaped doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as having some of the real properties of a black hole when it is very explicitly treated as such.


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Dragonball is the king of shonen in the real world and and slowly becoming the king when it comes to ficitonal battles

low 1C soon and then tier 0

lets go lets go lets goo
 
In regards to Dragon Ball being canon/official, that's pretty much it.

In “Dragon Ball Heroes: 5th Anniversary Guide Book”, Higuchi Wataru (Producer) stated that his intention is to work cooperatively with “Akira Toriyama” and other interested parties to create something that all fans can accept, thus the ability to incorporate “What-If Elements” (ex: Super Dragon Ball Heroes) express the true depth of Dragon Ball.



"Of course, I also understand the feelings of fans who prefer that we not tamper with the original work. Therefore, our intention is to work hard in cooperation with Toriyama-sensei and other stakeholders to create something that all fans can accept. The ability to embody both the original work and hypothetical elements like this express the true depth of Dragon Ball."

Japanese translation



With just a few hours left for DB's universe to be 2-C
 
Later on I will bring something very big

And good morning everyone, this is morning and it's exactly 10 o'clock in the morning, and good night to some of you as you have different schedules.
 
Since there's 7 hours remaining before we can start making changes, we should start preparing our proposals and arguments. And also discuss scaling here. Also, don't make the changes all at once, we should only make changes for one continuity at a time.
 
Since there's 7 hours remaining before we can start making changes, we should start preparing our proposals and arguments. And also discuss scaling here. Also, don't make the changes all at once, we should only make changes for one continuity at a time.
All I want is infinite speed and AP, I'm excited as hell
 
It's fiction, being heart-shaped doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as having some of the real properties of a black hole when it is very explicitly treated as such.


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And yet we can see light comingou of it, not really a black hole because of that alone
 
Dragonball is the king of shonen in the real world and and slowly becoming the king when it comes to ficitonal battles

low 1C soon and then tier 0

lets go lets go lets goo
Prove that the macrocosm has infinite dimensions instead of 3 and boom, that becomes real via the neutra zone, no cap, that is how ben 10 got low 1-C
 
Since there's 7 hours remaining before we can start making changes, we should start preparing our proposals and arguments. And also discuss scaling here. Also, don't make the changes all at once, we should only make changes for one continuity at a time.
I am making a sandbox for the aplication of the scaling of the cosmology, just need to re read the 2 threads again today to complete the skeleton of it
 
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