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Mfw Dragon Ball is getting infinite speed before literally anything above Class M
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Ngl that's actually pretty accurate if including filler. First form Frieza killed 3 warrior Namekians (they should all easily reach moon level at bare minimum by scaling) by breathing too hard lmao.
BlastX
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TBF he was in an incubator and then launched in a space pod IIRC, I think some places in Planet Vegeta weren't affected by Gravity.
Plus it's made a point Goku didn't resists that Gravity cause he didn't grow up there and that's why he is below his fellow Saiyans.
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When MCU Thor can beat Ultra Instinct Goku in an arm wrestle.
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Yeah outside of hax that's the main negative of DB characters, their LS is shit for their tiers.
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It's kinda ridiculous how much worse their LS is than everything else. Heck, even Heroes has sub-par LS until you get to the Universe Tree stuff.
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The Class M feat Goku did is before Goku even gets SSG. So via using multipliers we can actually get him decently high, but still finite in LS.
Pre-SSG: 55 KiloTons
Post BoG Base: 2750 KiloTons (assuming SSG is a 50x multiplier)
SSJ-SSG: 137 MegaTons
(SSB is 50x SSG)
SSB: 6.8 GigaTons
SSBKKX10: 68 GigaTons
SSB Post-Hit Rematch: 68 GigaTons
SSBKKX20: 1.3 PetaTons
UIO1-2: 1.3 PetaTons
Late-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 PetaTons
Late ToP SSBKKX20: 26 PetaTons
Base Gogeta: 1.3 PetaTons
SS Gogeta: 68 TeraTons
SSB Gogeta, MUI Goku, SSFP Broly: 3.4 ExaTons
So the final tally would be:
Post-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 TeraTons (Class P)
MUI Goku: 3.4 ExaTons (Class Z)
This is as high as we can get with the currently accepted multipliers, and assuming that multiplier applies to LS as well.
Getting near planetary lifting strength via multipliers from a class M feat, lmao.
****** up the numbers, fixed it.
Pre-SSG: 55 KiloTons
Post BoG Base: 2750 KiloTons (assuming SSG is a 50x multiplier)
SSJ-SSG: 137 MegaTons
(SSB is 50x SSG)
SSB: 6.8 GigaTons
SSBKKX10: 68 GigaTons
SSB Post-Hit Rematch: 68 GigaTons
SSBKKX20: 1.3 PetaTons
UIO1-2: 1.3 PetaTons
Late-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 PetaTons
Late ToP SSBKKX20: 26 PetaTons
Base Gogeta: 1.3 PetaTons
SS Gogeta: 68 TeraTons
SSB Gogeta, MUI Goku, SSFP Broly: 3.4 ExaTons
So the final tally would be:
Post-ToP SSB Goku: 1.3 TeraTons (Class P)
MUI Goku: 3.4 ExaTons (Class Z)
This is as high as we can get with the currently accepted multipliers, and assuming that multiplier applies to LS as well.
Getting near planetary lifting strength via multipliers from a class M feat, lmao.
****** up the numbers, fixed it.
Last edited:
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DB lifting feats
lol, lmao even.
lol, lmao even.
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Goku does have crazy lifting strength feats...it's just that they're totally incalculable because we don't know any details. Like him lifting/pushing/pulling weights on King Kai's Planet, the Whis training suits sinking into the ground on Beerus' planet, and the Pretty Black Hole which sink through Kachi Kachin and is compared to a real black hole multiple times.
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Goku actually has some of the best lifting strength feats in the series, ironically.
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Why is MUI Goku on the same ballpark as Gogeta?
Gogeta in base outscales post ToP Goku and by going blue he is >>>2500x above that level
MUI has no accepted multiplier beyond the fact it’s above Blue Kaioken x20
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Too bad most of his feats can't be measured. I remember a feat in toeiverse, where goku pushes a planet raising ki, but I don't even know if that can be scaled to ls...
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If the force of his Ki can do it, so can he. His Ki is what he uses to strengthen his body, and his body then becomes equal to the strength of his Ki, which is why Dragon Ball characters are comparable to their own Ki blast's, which are simply large concentrations of Ki.
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Since DB is going through an upgrade season rn. I propose my own upgrade.
Super Saiyan God having an at least 100x multiplier.
Reasoning:
During the Battle of Gods Arc in DBS, after Goku gets slammed by Beerus with no effort, Goku states that not even a fusion (likely referring to Vegito) would've been capable of beating Beerus. Goku felt more confident fighting Beerus as a Super Saiyan God than fusing with Vegeta.
The problem is, in the manga, we don't exactly know much stronger Vegito is than Goku. In the anime, Vegito is capable of fighting Buuhan in base form. While in the manga, Vegito immediately turns Super Saiyan after appearing and beats Buuhan that way. There's no way to put a concrete multiplier of Potara fusion in the Buu Arc, all we knew is that Super Vegito is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Since there's no accepted multiplier for SS2 and SS3, all we end up with is a scaling chain.
Base Goku < SS Goku (50x) < SS2 Goku < SS3 Goku < SS Vegito < SSG Goku
So for the Super Saiyan God multiplier, I propose a solution. Giving Buu Arc Base Vegito a 2x multiplier over Base Goku. 2x is the most reasonable lowball for a fusion, since it combines the power of Goku and Vegeta, who's comparable to each other. And since Goku would most likely account for Vegito's transformations when making that statement, SSG is most likely stronger than SS Vegito. Thus giving Super Saiyan God a lowballed 100x multiplier.
Super Saiyan God having an at least 100x multiplier.
Reasoning:
During the Battle of Gods Arc in DBS, after Goku gets slammed by Beerus with no effort, Goku states that not even a fusion (likely referring to Vegito) would've been capable of beating Beerus. Goku felt more confident fighting Beerus as a Super Saiyan God than fusing with Vegeta.
The problem is, in the manga, we don't exactly know much stronger Vegito is than Goku. In the anime, Vegito is capable of fighting Buuhan in base form. While in the manga, Vegito immediately turns Super Saiyan after appearing and beats Buuhan that way. There's no way to put a concrete multiplier of Potara fusion in the Buu Arc, all we knew is that Super Vegito is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Since there's no accepted multiplier for SS2 and SS3, all we end up with is a scaling chain.
Base Goku < SS Goku (50x) < SS2 Goku < SS3 Goku < SS Vegito < SSG Goku
So for the Super Saiyan God multiplier, I propose a solution. Giving Buu Arc Base Vegito a 2x multiplier over Base Goku. 2x is the most reasonable lowball for a fusion, since it combines the power of Goku and Vegeta, who's comparable to each other. And since Goku would most likely account for Vegito's transformations when making that statement, SSG is most likely stronger than SS Vegito. Thus giving Super Saiyan God a lowballed 100x multiplier.
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I am all for dragon ball getting the boost it deserves as it's basically my favourite verse, but I also really want it to be accurate so as not to be treated as a joke, I have two worries
1) Goku and pikkon
One thing about the afterlife is that the structures are much bigger on the inside than outside, it's confirmed to have the dimensional transcendental property
"dimensionally transcendental" was worded very specifically and refers to having greater spaces inside than outside, it's a famous term in the Dr Who franchise
There is also primary proof,
Goku notes that the grand Kai's planet is quite small (or smaller than he thought), and we see a straight up relative shot with heaven in the series. By logic, grand Kai's planet contains stars inside, it should easily dwarf any single planet Goku has seen. Also, as secondary evidence, heaven's curvature from the outside and compare it with the ship Goku was on...there are stars in our universe whose curvature makes our sun look much smaller than that
No way is that planet universal on the outside, it looks more like a gas giant in size from the outside,not definitely is NOT universal being compared to both he grand Kai planet and the spaceship
My point is, using the fact that pikkon and Goku passed by heaven from the outside down to hell, should not used as they crossed a fully infinite universal distance, they would have to have crossed the afterlife itself or scale to an attack that does that (how BoG scales). Since they went from the structure at the top to the one at the bottom, using the full diameter of the observable universe as a conservative estimate should be the best and most accurate. Let's not sacrifice the verse's rep for upgrades no matter how nice it finally feels
2) 2C manga Buu
Buu was indeed a universal threat, but nothing said he would blow up the entire universe in one shot we can't just assume something this controversial, there are several inconsistencies with that. First off, cell arc ssj2 Gohan's PL was still a measuring stick in the buu arc, ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were stronger, but weren't stated to be astronomically so, or anything like that, and ? Goku also had ssj3 which was roughly around kid Buu's level, the gap from solar system+ to universal (just 3A) is....what? Sextillions? Dodecillions?. Also Beerus outright states that post Buu arc pre ritual base Goku isn't stronger than full power namek Frieza. 2C dbz characters debuted from BoG imo, the closest we got in z was buuhan via the dimensional collapse
1) Goku and pikkon
One thing about the afterlife is that the structures are much bigger on the inside than outside, it's confirmed to have the dimensional transcendental property
"dimensionally transcendental" was worded very specifically and refers to having greater spaces inside than outside, it's a famous term in the Dr Who franchise
There is also primary proof,
Goku notes that the grand Kai's planet is quite small (or smaller than he thought), and we see a straight up relative shot with heaven in the series. By logic, grand Kai's planet contains stars inside, it should easily dwarf any single planet Goku has seen. Also, as secondary evidence, heaven's curvature from the outside and compare it with the ship Goku was on...there are stars in our universe whose curvature makes our sun look much smaller than that
No way is that planet universal on the outside, it looks more like a gas giant in size from the outside,not definitely is NOT universal being compared to both he grand Kai planet and the spaceship
My point is, using the fact that pikkon and Goku passed by heaven from the outside down to hell, should not used as they crossed a fully infinite universal distance, they would have to have crossed the afterlife itself or scale to an attack that does that (how BoG scales). Since they went from the structure at the top to the one at the bottom, using the full diameter of the observable universe as a conservative estimate should be the best and most accurate. Let's not sacrifice the verse's rep for upgrades no matter how nice it finally feels
2) 2C manga Buu
Buu was indeed a universal threat, but nothing said he would blow up the entire universe in one shot we can't just assume something this controversial, there are several inconsistencies with that. First off, cell arc ssj2 Gohan's PL was still a measuring stick in the buu arc, ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were stronger, but weren't stated to be astronomically so, or anything like that, and ? Goku also had ssj3 which was roughly around kid Buu's level, the gap from solar system+ to universal (just 3A) is....what? Sextillions? Dodecillions?. Also Beerus outright states that post Buu arc pre ritual base Goku isn't stronger than full power namek Frieza. 2C dbz characters debuted from BoG imo, the closest we got in z was buuhan via the dimensional collapse
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The pretty black hole was calced but rejected at the time because the site didn't treat the attack as an actual black hole, I am making a crt to address that
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Man if these multipliers applies to Lifting Strength you can crank up MUI Goku's LS to Pre-Stellar just by putting this multiplier and another 50x from Goku getting SSG at the first time
on Goku's Class M feat listed on his profile
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Is SSB being 50x SSG accepted?
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Well DBS does give us a stated multiplier for Potara Fusion: (0:33).
So a fusions power (likely their base form) is tens of times (so at least 20x) greater than the sum of their parts (so (Character A + Character B) x at least 20).
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It's fiction, being heart-shaped doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as having some of the real properties of a black hole when it is very explicitly treated as such.
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In regards to Dragon Ball being canon/official, that's pretty much it.
In “Dragon Ball Heroes: 5th Anniversary Guide Book”, Higuchi Wataru (Producer) stated that his intention is to work cooperatively with “Akira Toriyama” and other interested parties to create something that all fans can accept, thus the ability to incorporate “What-If Elements” (ex: Super Dragon Ball Heroes) express the true depth of Dragon Ball.
"Of course, I also understand the feelings of fans who prefer that we not tamper with the original work. Therefore, our intention is to work hard in cooperation with Toriyama-sensei and other stakeholders to create something that all fans can accept. The ability to embody both the original work and hypothetical elements like this express the true depth of Dragon Ball."
Japanese translation
With just a few hours left for DB's universe to be 2-C
In “Dragon Ball Heroes: 5th Anniversary Guide Book”, Higuchi Wataru (Producer) stated that his intention is to work cooperatively with “Akira Toriyama” and other interested parties to create something that all fans can accept, thus the ability to incorporate “What-If Elements” (ex: Super Dragon Ball Heroes) express the true depth of Dragon Ball.
"Of course, I also understand the feelings of fans who prefer that we not tamper with the original work. Therefore, our intention is to work hard in cooperation with Toriyama-sensei and other stakeholders to create something that all fans can accept. The ability to embody both the original work and hypothetical elements like this express the true depth of Dragon Ball."
Japanese translation
With just a few hours left for DB's universe to be 2-C
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Later on I will bring something very big
And good morning everyone, this is morning and it's exactly 10 o'clock in the morning, and good night to some of you as you have different schedules.
And good morning everyone, this is morning and it's exactly 10 o'clock in the morning, and good night to some of you as you have different schedules.
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All I want is infinite speed and AP, I'm excited as hell
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And yet we can see light comingou of it, not really a black hole because of that aloneIt's fiction, being heart-shaped doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as having some of the real properties of a black hole when it is very explicitly treated as such.
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Prove that the macrocosm has infinite dimensions instead of 3 and boom, that becomes real via the neutra zone, no cap, that is how ben 10 got low 1-C
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I am making a sandbox for the aplication of the scaling of the cosmology, just need to re read the 2 threads again today to complete the skeleton of it
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Y'all ready for that 2-C Base Cabba 
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2-C infinite speed DBS fodderY'all ready for that 2-C Base Cabba
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