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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

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Maverick_Zero_X said:
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2 to 0 tbh. Majin Vegeta didn't "win" in a fight against Goku. If anything it's generous to not count it as a win for Goku because Vegeta got buffed (outside help) and was STILL weaker, Goku straight-up held back to not hurt his feelings, which was why they were arguing before becoming Vegito later on, Vegeta was pissed that Goku held back "for" him.

But I don't think it honestly meant Goku was better than Vegeta despite what the series implies. Think about this logically; Goku was training in the Otherworld, on the Grand Kai's planet if we go by the anime, for 7 years straight, with the bonus of having an undead body which is how he hit SSJ3, while Vegeta trained strictly on Earth and had the restrictions of a normal body. So the implication that Goku getting stronger than Vegeta did over those years means anything about potential is stupid.
 
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Huesito88 said:
Yeah the man that has never underestimated (misread a opponent's strength) his opponent
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God I remember that. It was not only very funny, but kind of concerning, because it showed how little the DBS writers ACTUALLY ******* KNEW ABOUT THE SERIES. Literally a n y b o d y that watched DBZ and remembers it knows how stupid that is. Sometimes these shows just don't try.

The best part was that it came from one of the smartest and most loved fighters in the franchise too, not someone irrelevant like Foddcha.
 
RinneItachi said:
God I remember that. It was not only very funny, but kind of concerning, because it showed how little the DBS writers ACTUALLY ******* KNEW ABOUT THE SERIES. Literally a n y b o d y that watched DBZ and remembers it knows how stupid that is. Sometimes these shows just don't try.

The best part was that it came from one of the smartest and most loved fighters in the franchise too, not someone irrelevant like Foddcha.
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TBF, stuff like this was in Z too.

Gohan said that Piccolo never overestimates his own abilities and never fights a fight he can't win when he does that practically all the time all the way til the Buu Saga (in fact he just did in that very same saga, if he didn't fuse with Nail he would have gotten assblasted by Freezer and ruined everything Gohan and the others worked for because of his ego).

Piccolo also calls Vegeta a fighting genius...for letting his energy get drained by 19 and then wasting it on the Big Bang Attack, like, he didn't prove he is a battle genius, he just showed off and potentially made himself so weak even Gero could have taken him on had he not run away.
 
BlastX said:
TBF, stuff like this was in Z too.

Gohan said that Piccolo never overestimates his own abilities and never fights a fight he can't win when he does that practically all the time all the way til the Buu Saga (in fact he just did in that very same saga, if he didn't fuse with Nail he would have gotten assblasted by Freezer and ruined everything Gohan and the others worked for because of his ego).

Piccolo also calls Vegeta a fighting genius...for letting his energy get drained by 19 and then wasting it on the Big Bang Attack, like, he didn't prove he is a battle genius, he just showed off and potentially made himself so weak even Gero could have taken him on had he not run away.
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Very true points. But what made that particular statement different was that underestimating opponents/overestimating himself is such an iconic Vegeta thing it might as well be one of his defining character traits. It wasn't just a moment that is contradicted by what occasionally happens in the story, it goes against Vegeta's character as a whole. Piccolo being smart and recognizing the danger of a situation or opponent feels relatively in line with his character as the sort of Batman-like guy of the group, but it's contradicted by the decisions Toriyama wrote him to make in the story as well.

And yeah that second thing was especially stupid. Toriyama was trying to show that Vegeta is some great battle tactician but only made him look stupid and tried to play it off like he made a smart move. I mean Toriyama was never the best at that stuff, which is why Dragon Ball is notorious for having very simple fights, but come on man, that was just plain dumb.

I still agree that DBZ has plenty of those same flaws. I'm not on the bandwagon of hating on DBS because of DBZ nostalgia.
 
BlastX said:
Gohan said that Piccolo never overestimates his own abilities and never fights a fight he can't win when he does that practically all the time all the way til the Buu Saga (in fact he just did in that very same saga, if he didn't fuse with Nail he would have gotten assblasted by Freezer and ruined everything Gohan and the others worked for because of his ego).
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There is a major difference. Piccolo fought battles that he had to fight and he also prepared strategies since he knew he can't beat them alone.

Radditz: Teaming up with Goku
Nappa: Teaming up with Krillin and Gohan
Frieza: He didn't really knew that Frieza can further transform
A17: He can't feel his ki
Cell: In his first fight he was clapping him and in his second fight he knew he was outmatched but he also knew that he had to stop him at all costs.
Frost: Used strategy because he knew he was too weak.

Vegeta on the other hand fought people who are massively stronger than him (Zarbon, Recomme, Frieza, Cell, Buu , Goku Black , Hit, Jiren) while thinking that he had a realistic chance.
 
RinneItachi said:
Very true points. But what made that particular statement different was that underestimating opponents/overestimating himself is such an iconic Vegeta thing it might as well be one of his defining character traits. It wasn't just a moment that is contradicted by what occasionally happens in the story, it goes against Vegeta's character as a whole. Piccolo being smart and recognizing the danger of a situation or opponent feels relatively in line with his character as the sort of Batman-like guy of the group, but it's contradicted by the decisions Toriyama wrote him to make in the story as well.

And yeah that second thing was especially stupid. Toriyama was trying to show that Vegeta is some great battle tactician but only made him look stupid and tried to play it off like he made a smart move. I mean Toriyama was never the best at that stuff, which is why Dragon Ball is notorious for having very simple fights, but come on man, that was just plain dumb.

I still agree that DBZ has plenty of those same flaws. I'm not on the bandwagon of hating on DBS because of DBZ nostalgia.
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I mean, I disagree that Piccolo is a smart tactician too, the only plan of his that particularly worked was distracting Super Buu to buy Goten and Trunks more time, most of the time he's shown to be dumb to the point people need to remind him basic facts that he should already know (Goku reminds him to sense Gohan's Ki to remind him he's not dead, Gohan reminded him how the Room Of Spirit and Time works and I think even Gotenks corrected him on something he got wrong once), not to mentioned he caused the entire Saiyan Saga to happen cause he bragged to Raditz that Goku was gonna get revived, he literally led Cell to the Androids (because of a fight he probably couldn't even win either), the horrendous **** up he pulled in the Name saga and other stuff I'm forgetting.

Piccolo was never smart, that's a fanon invention.
 
RinneItachi said:
God I remember that. It was not only very funny, but kind of concerning, because it showed how little the DBS writers ACTUALLY ******* KNEW ABOUT THE SERIES. Literally a n y b o d y that watched DBZ and remembers it knows how stupid that is. Sometimes these shows just don't try.
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I feel like it's much more common than people think that fans know the series better than the creator. It's like Barry Allen being the creator of the Speedforce but Wally still being much faster lmfao.

If I were to make a Dragonball Quiz between the people of this discussion group and Toriyama, you guys would stomp him
 
RinneItachi said:
2 to 0 tbh. Majin Vegeta didn't "win" in a fight against Goku. If anything it's generous to not count it as a win for Goku because Vegeta got buffed (outside help) and was STILL weaker, Goku straight-up held back to not hurt his feelings, which was why they were arguing before becoming Vegito later on, Vegeta was pissed that Goku held back "for" him.

But I don't think it honestly meant Goku was better than Vegeta despite what the series implies. Think about this logically; Goku was training in the Otherworld, on the Grand Kai's planet if we go by the anime, for 7 years straight, with the bonus of having an undead body which is how he hit SSJ3, while Vegeta trained strictly on Earth and had the restrictions of a normal body. So the implication that Goku getting stronger than Vegeta did over those years means anything about potential is stupid.
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The meme is just 4chan shit, they don't care of the context around it, just that Goku never technically beat Vegeta and mock him for it.
 
which character would be the best for a battle vs when it comes to dragon ball? worth only the toei characters: dbz, movies and GT. And dbs: anime and manga.
 
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