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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Doesn't shit like that piss you guys off sometimes.
Like what's the point of calling it Instant Transmission if it's not instant. Like bruh wtf.
I'm honestly starting to care less about Scaling DB after these past few chapters.
The moment I saw a Moon level feat at a point of the series where the characters are Galaxy busting.
Or watching the two "Strongest" in the Universe duke It out on the planet without causing it any threat to it whatsoever. Like damn the City is shakin what an amazing feat for a uni buster.
Like what's the point of calling it Instant Transmission if it's not instant. Like bruh wtf.
I'm honestly starting to care less about Scaling DB after these past few chapters.
The moment I saw a Moon level feat at a point of the series where the characters are Galaxy busting.
Or watching the two "Strongest" in the Universe duke It out on the planet without causing it any threat to it whatsoever. Like damn the City is shakin what an amazing feat for a uni buster.
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It is instant. The feat is either legit or next chapter someone gets blitzed by instant transmission or it's stated faster than them thus making the feat an outlier. And I dhare your opinion, when I saw the moon busting, I was actually excited, that's how deprived of feats we are.
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“It’s instant” is the basis for infinite speed here people. Which is why I find it quite unreliable.
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Yes, it is instant. It's teleportation, it's not like they teleport at finite speed.
The_Legendary_Vin
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
good luck guys, Im not arguing with fluffy here, I already tried... and he refused to listen on the DB wiki TwT
good luck guys, Im not arguing with fluffy here, I already tried... and he refused to listen on the DB wiki TwT
Vietthai96
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Nah, they just use constant Teleportation lol
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Bruh what?
“Instant” means a small amount of time, which can be any amount of time depending on perspective. Teleportation doesn’t warrant infinite speed whatsoever. What’s your proof?
The_Legendary_Vin
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There is none, and Instant transmission takes time to activate
The_Legendary_Vin
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Here's the thread on the dragonball wiki:
A literal infinite speed feat | Fandom
In the most recent chapter, Granolah performs an…
dragonball.fandom.com
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Yeah that’s an obvious name Fallacy. Cue the "3-A android saga Vegata via big bang attack" or "tier 0 one punch man". Even taking the name literally, you cannot quantify "instantaneous" as you can describe any quick movement as "instantaneous".
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,451
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The context of instant here is, yes move in an instant, but what we need to review here is the distance itself. Move at massively high speed in a short distance can still be called instant because with you max speed you can cross that short distance in an instant, we can call it something like the relativity between distance, speed and timeframe
The_Legendary_Vin
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A friend on the wiki created a good counter argument... though, Unfortunately, I gotta cut out parts, due to it being anime only
"Allow me to explain why this is not infinite speed. The reason why it is not infinite speed, is because if it were, it could go anywhere in the universe just as fast as Instant Transmission, which would mean Goku would have no need to use the ability. But beyond that, Goku in that same chapter states that Gas' instant transmission is faster than Granolah's. This is an impossibility if both are instant. And if one technique is FASTER than Instant, than it's faster than time, which means the user will appear behind the target BEFORE they disappear. Instant Transmission may allow you to get to anywhere instantly, but the speed of usage depends heavily upon the user."
"Allow me to explain why this is not infinite speed. The reason why it is not infinite speed, is because if it were, it could go anywhere in the universe just as fast as Instant Transmission, which would mean Goku would have no need to use the ability. But beyond that, Goku in that same chapter states that Gas' instant transmission is faster than Granolah's. This is an impossibility if both are instant. And if one technique is FASTER than Instant, than it's faster than time, which means the user will appear behind the target BEFORE they disappear. Instant Transmission may allow you to get to anywhere instantly, but the speed of usage depends heavily upon the user."
The_Legendary_Vin
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(Full post Text):
Ya Boi King Kai
·
10m
"This is a nice post, but as I said, Instant Transmission is not quite instant.
Songoku Vs Kefla saiyans. Super saiya cewek
Songoku Vs Kefla saiyans. Super saiya cewek
YOUTUBE
15:45
Frieza vs Jimeze (Subbed)
Frieza vs Jimeze (Subbed)
YOUTUBE
Allow me to explain why this is not infinite speed. The reason why it is not infinite speed, is because if it were, it could go anywhere in the universe just as fast as Instant Transmission, which would mean Goku would have no need to use the ability. But beyond that, Goku in that same chapter states that Gas' instant transmission is faster than Granolah's. This is an impossibility if both are instant. And f one technique is FASTER than Instant, than it's faster than time, which means the user will appear behind the target BEFORE they disappear. Instant Transmission may allow you to get to anywhere instantly, but the speed of usage depends heavily upon the user. Super 17 was able to counter the same.
Goku ssj4 vs Super Android 17 (HQ)
Goku ssj4 vs Super Android 17 (HQ)
YOUTUBE
He explained that he could sense the vibrations in the atmosphere upon Goku's reentry. When Goku uses Instant Transmission, there are various tells that show where he'll appear. The same should be true for Gas and Granolah as well. After all, Gas IT ?Granolah's IT > Goku's IT. If Instant Transmission were instant, than you couldn't go faster than it even if you WERE Infinite in speed. Instant is the speed of time, and going faster than it means that the effect occurs before the cause. This is how linear time works. Past, Present, Future. We live in the present. if our power surpasses the present, then we will experience the effects of an action we have yet to take. The idea is, if Gas' Instant Transmission is faster than Granolah's, which is faster than Goku's, then this means that Gas will appear behind Granolah to attack him BEFORE he even disappears. There will be two Gases at one moment of time. Either there are two Gases in the moment of the attack, or it's not instant. Vegeta said they were using it sloppily anyway. This doesn't prove an Infinite Speed feat. Just that it's very fast. Maybe they can move at 0.000...1 of a second, but it's not infinite, because Instant Transmission isn't instant. Never has been displayed to be. It's name is a Hyperbole. Even during the time Goku first used IT, he had time enough to wave goodbye. Return of Cooler even displays Goku and Cooler as being able to fight each other IN instant transmission."
Ya Boi King Kai
·
10m
"This is a nice post, but as I said, Instant Transmission is not quite instant.
Songoku Vs Kefla saiyans. Super saiya cewek
Songoku Vs Kefla saiyans. Super saiya cewek
YOUTUBE
15:45
Frieza vs Jimeze (Subbed)
Frieza vs Jimeze (Subbed)
YOUTUBE
Allow me to explain why this is not infinite speed. The reason why it is not infinite speed, is because if it were, it could go anywhere in the universe just as fast as Instant Transmission, which would mean Goku would have no need to use the ability. But beyond that, Goku in that same chapter states that Gas' instant transmission is faster than Granolah's. This is an impossibility if both are instant. And f one technique is FASTER than Instant, than it's faster than time, which means the user will appear behind the target BEFORE they disappear. Instant Transmission may allow you to get to anywhere instantly, but the speed of usage depends heavily upon the user. Super 17 was able to counter the same.
Goku ssj4 vs Super Android 17 (HQ)
Goku ssj4 vs Super Android 17 (HQ)
YOUTUBE
He explained that he could sense the vibrations in the atmosphere upon Goku's reentry. When Goku uses Instant Transmission, there are various tells that show where he'll appear. The same should be true for Gas and Granolah as well. After all, Gas IT ?Granolah's IT > Goku's IT. If Instant Transmission were instant, than you couldn't go faster than it even if you WERE Infinite in speed. Instant is the speed of time, and going faster than it means that the effect occurs before the cause. This is how linear time works. Past, Present, Future. We live in the present. if our power surpasses the present, then we will experience the effects of an action we have yet to take. The idea is, if Gas' Instant Transmission is faster than Granolah's, which is faster than Goku's, then this means that Gas will appear behind Granolah to attack him BEFORE he even disappears. There will be two Gases at one moment of time. Either there are two Gases in the moment of the attack, or it's not instant. Vegeta said they were using it sloppily anyway. This doesn't prove an Infinite Speed feat. Just that it's very fast. Maybe they can move at 0.000...1 of a second, but it's not infinite, because Instant Transmission isn't instant. Never has been displayed to be. It's name is a Hyperbole. Even during the time Goku first used IT, he had time enough to wave goodbye. Return of Cooler even displays Goku and Cooler as being able to fight each other IN instant transmission."
Nullflowerblush
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Gas' Instant Transmission being faster than Granolah's Instant Transmission which is faster than Goku's Instant Transmission is amazing.
The_Legendary_Vin
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POV: YBKK Joined the debate:
(warning, loud music)
(warning, loud music)
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I like this take on Instant Transmission. Wonder where this'll go in the thread though.
The_Legendary_Vin
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probably no where, but the excerpt, since YBKK used mixed sources from GT and the movies, which IS NOT canon to the manga
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Fr tho. Like why do I want to see Universal Character bust a moon? When he could do that since 15 years old.
Like this is Modern Dragon Ball fights nowadays.
The villain is in their final form charging an attack that will utilise all their energy.
A beaten-down Goku and Vegeta look on in shock at the sheer density of power being generated.
"Aha haha should've brought a sense bean, huh? Vegeta!" Says Goku with a wry smile.
"Hmmph" The Prince of an endangered race replied with one arm holding the other.
Finally, the attack is ready for use. And is released in a mediocre explosion the size of a Ki blast that looks barely wall level.
It briefly misses both Goku and Vegeta and hits a tree.
Yet despite it being an attack that's 42069x Universal. The Tree is perfectly fine and standing erect with like two scorch marks.
And then Goku's dumbass says with all kinda fear
"Woah! Imagine if that hit the Planet!?!?!"
Like bruuuhhh, I'm not asking for insane environmental destruction. But even feats from 2 decades ago seem better.
Vegeta shook Earth just from powering up.
Ginyu's blast enveloped a good portion of Namek.
Goku mere transformation into a Super Saiyan for the first time caused a Volcano to erupt and terraformed Namek into mainly water.
Vegeta's Final Flash parted the literal sea.
Like this isn't me saying that Z was better in regards to characters power levels vs the feats shown on screen.
But at least it had tension.
When Goku was aiming his attack at the planet against Cell and everyone freaked the **** out I genuinely felt that Goku was planet busting despite us never seeing him perform a feat like that.
Or the first Beam Clash of Z with Goku and Vegeta legitimately felt like a battle for the fate of Earth.
Heck, even Kid Goku vs Demon King Piccolo gave me this feeling.
But what pisses me off, even more, is that Tori has shown that he can just say "**** power levels" in favour of a good fight.
Like Broly was just the embodiment of this sediment.
It follows the anime canon where the characters are Universal instead of Galaxy level.
We have Broly aiming attacks at the Earth while losing his literal mind but I didn't give af. Cause the fight was so entertaining.
Anyway sorry for ranting it should be out of my system till the next chapters lmao.
Also, don't get me started on Lifting Strength in Dragon Ball.
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I mean, true
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Kid Goku lifted Bulma's car with no exertion.
But apparently, clothes that weigh 80kg are enough to stimulate him.
And also why can't these mfs breathe in space? Tori is literally limiting his Verse for no reason.
Just have them learn a Ki technique that allows for such capabilities. I'll even accept a Retcon to canon even if makes as little sense as
"In truth, Saiyans can breathe in space, we just never tried because.... Ummmm... It's cold and *****'
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After BoG, I really thought "the time has come for Saiyans to be able to breathe in space", then in the manga, Akira said Goku and Beerus were still in the atmosphere of the Earth, which made me mad, then in the Moro arc Vegeta said we can't survive in the vacuum of space, Vegeta dying after Frieza busted the planet, I started to believe that the author is dumb
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100% agree with everything you said.
Even more annoying since in DBFZ it's literally space.
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Kai kai which is identical to shunkan ido is stated to be instant movement here.Bruh what?
“Instant” means a small amount of time, which can be any amount of time depending on perspective. Teleportation doesn’t warrant infinite speed whatsoever. What’s your proof?
http://web.archive.org/web/20111103...m/trans-daiz07.php?m=04&id=attack_j-l#kai-kai
In the movement section of the techniques in daizenshuu 4, it's stated that instant transmission is moves instantly.
"Shunkan-ido, where by sensing someone's ki one can instantly move to their location, could also be said to be in this category of technique."
https://web.archive.org/web/2011110...tai.com/trans-daiz04.php?m=05&id=attacks#link
In daizenshuu 2, it's stated again that instant transmission is instant.
Vol. 28 / Chp. 336 He brought back Kame-sennin's sunglasses in an instant.
Dragon ball wiki repeatedly calls IT instant and teleportation, instant here must mean literally instant, because if it was finite, then it would not be real teleportation as it would require travel time which would prevent Goku from visiting realms outside of the living world since they are in different dimensions.
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Transmission
Recoome single handedly did more damage to the planet with one attack than the combined attacks during Goku vs granolah, vegeta vs granolah, goku vs gas and granolah vs gas.
In the real translation, krillin says that his attack warped and deformed the planet.
Honestly this wouldn't be a problem if saiyans could breathe in space.
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This changes nothing about what I said. “Instant” is not quantifiable.
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I already mentioned that instant must mean instant literally because it couldn't do what it does if the speed was finite. It's even bisually dipicted instant no matter the distance travelled which wouldn't be true if it's speed was finite as opposed to really fast.
In fact, the first time instant transmission is used, it's immediately dismissed as mere high speed movement. Here's the scan.
https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/dragon-ball/chapter-336/4.jpg
Vegeta states it's mere high speed movement which is very quickly debunked.
The_Legendary_Vin
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<_<
Fluffy... that argument would not slide on the dragonball wiki, AND YOU KNOW IT LMFAO
Fluffy... that argument would not slide on the dragonball wiki, AND YOU KNOW IT LMFAO
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Instant doesn’t have a literal meaning. It’s all subjective.
This is also taken out of context. Vegeta is right, it’s not high speed movement, it’s teleportation.
The_Legendary_Vin
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it's only seems instant sometimes in the manga, since it's not animated, it takes a couple of seconds, and they aren't going to draw 3 redundant teleport frames every time someone uses IT
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These are the two relevant definitions of instant.
As a noun: an infinitesimal space of timeespecially : a point in time separating two states.
This supports my argument because shunkan ido is also stated to move in an instant.
As an adjective: produced or occurring with or as if with extreme rapidity and ease
This case, you'd be right. This doesn't mean blatantly it's instant in the way I'm claiming. But there is more supporting evidence to show that it means it literally.
If IT's speed was finite, then it would need travel time which would be the same as teleportation through high speed movement, and it's stated it's not, and it would also be impossible to cross between realms if there is travel time.
That's just the artistic effect if the techniques usage, else it'd look like TFS's pop.
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Infinitesimal is not 0. You’re implying 0 time happens with IT. This definition contradicts your premise.
You have two definitions that don’t work in your favor then.
Vegeta says "You’re only fooling us by moving fast..." in the scan you posted. Vegeta thinks that Goku is flying extremely fast but that’s not it, it's teleportation. It wouldn’t be relevant for Vegeta to point out if he was also talking about teleportation. The quality of that scan is awful btw.
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Movement in that time frame would still be infinite speed. There are other supporting evidence which show that instant transmission is instant, like it's very clearly implied to be and not just movement very fast.
I guess you're right about vegeta. Sorry, all the good scan sites don't allow me to save or link their scans so I'm forced to use this trash.
Nullflowerblush
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The_Legendary_Vin
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<_<
Off what evidence? head canon?
Plesase, Try and give me a valid argument for once, rather than simply restating your points with weak evidence and stop ignoring things that clearly debunk you
The_Legendary_Vin
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Not to mention, TFS is a PARODY, it's not canon, so why would you take that over how it appears in the anime? as a blur?
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Explain how moving in an infinitesimal timeframes is infinitely fast when infinitesimal just means extremely small, or ever decresing.
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Flower man you traitor. You literally recently said it was instant movement. It being described as movement isn't technically wrong because it's used for transportation.
Because infinitesimal is the number closest to zero that is not zero, moving in a time frame such as that would be practically infinite speed since there is no number closest to zero it would just be treated as zero.
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Use this one
The_Legendary_Vin
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This statement is a direct contradiction
You state that Infinitesimal is the number closest to Zero, then immediately proceed to sat that it means it is PRACTICALLY (Thus disproving your argument, it's like saying, it's almost infinite, which thus means it is NOT infinite but this is besides the main point here, with saying you contradicted yourself), then proceed to say that there is no number closest to Zero, and would just be treated as Zero... Do you see the problem here fluffy? I know your very intelligent, and should see the problem here
Not only did your word usage betray your point, but you base argument here is based on a direct contradiction, thusly, undermining it, basically, you are trying to make an invalid, self contradicting statement, in order to back up an already weak statement, and still need to address the fact, that Granolah also has instant transmission, one with more practice. you need to explain, how if these movements are instantaneous, then how Vegeta was able to keep track, and tell that they were being used sloppily. You still have to answer YBKK's point here or on the wiki as well... and don't skip any of these like you liked to do on the wiki. Don't pretend that any of these problems aren't there. I'm tired of this argument.
