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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Both Viz and Toei have continued their respective works to be separate from each other.

Viz considers the Super manga to be the canonical continuation of Toriyama's work and places it on a timeline alongside the original story.

Furthermore, Toriyama, Toyotaro, and Viz speak of the manga as though it really is just an extension of the original.
Toyotarō:
T-That’s so much pressure… (sweat). But I think it’ll be really cool to help Dragon Ball someday reach its final chapter.
Click to expand...
Goku’s adventure from the best-selling classic manga Dragon Ball continues!
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Ever since Goku became Earth’s greatest hero and gathered the seven Dragon Balls to defeat the evil Boo, his life on Earth has grown a little dull. But new threats loom overhead, and Goku and his friends will have to defend the planet once again in this continuation of Akira Toriyama’s best-selling series, Dragon Ball!
Click to expand...
On the other hand, Toei places the Super anime on a timeline with the previous three anime... which includes GT for some reason-

Along with that, the Super anime was consistently referred to as "the first anime in eighteen years", with Dragon Ball GT having ended in 1997 (remember, the anime started in 2015), and is considered the direct continuation of the anime series that ended sometime ago.
The long-awaited continuation of one of the world’s most beloved action anime, 18 years in the making!
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Toei Animation has announced production on Dragon Ball Super, the first all-new Dragon Ball television series to be released in 18 years.
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Original Japanese​
English Translation (DeepL)​
アニメーションシリーズの「Ｚ」と「ＧＴ」の間、つまり、原作517話で魔人ブウとの戦いが終わった後、518話までの空白の10年の間に起こったエピソードが初めて描かれる。For the first time, episodes that took place during the gap of 10 years between "Z" and "GT" of the animation series, that is, after the battle with Majin Buu ended in episode 517 of the original story, until episode 518, will be depicted.

Also, when Toriyama talks about the Super anime, he also references the other anime series as though they were related.
You know, it suddenly occurs to me that somewhere along the line the Dragon Ball anime has become quite a huge story. Since I’m the guy who drew the thing, it’s a bit weird for me to say this, but when I first started out I never dreamed it would have a universe as a setting (laughs). Don’t worry though, it’s still going to be the same sort of easy-to-understand content as always. Please be sure to watch Dragon Ball Super on TV!
Click to expand...

The counterargument the Wiki currently employs is that, "Both the anime and the manga are based on Toriyama's draft, meaning they are both continuations of the manga", but that means little to nothing. This draft is Super and was adapted by two different teams into two separate stories based off of two separate continuities.

Besides, the anime makes numerous references to the original anime and the Z anime with varying sizes and significance. For example:
  • After Ginyu-Tagoma finished telling his story to Frieza, detailing how he was converted into a frog and what he did after being transported to Earth by the Dragon Ball, Bulma angrily voices comments on the Ginyu-Frog and is flustered when Goten and Trunks ask her about it, a very obvious callback to the time when Ginyu-Frog body-swapped with Bulma on Planet Namek -- anime-exclusive.
  • In Future Trunks' flashback about his Gohan's death, he transforms into a Super Saiyan for the first time upon coming across Gohan's body in the rain, events that are nearly a shot-for-shot reaction of those in the TV special, but not the manga version of events in which Trunks had already achieved Super Saiyan prior to Gohan’s death and did not transform after finding his body. Also, another thing to note is that Gohan tricked Trunks into looking away from him before striking the boy, whereas in the TV special and the reanimated flashback, Gohan agreed to fight with Trunks and struck him in the neck while he prepared to fly off.
  • All of the flashbacks to Gohan's battle with Cell as a Super Saiyan 2 reuse anime footage, and they also reuse scenes that were not included in the manga, such as Cell unsuccessfully launching Destructo Discs at him, and Gohan toying with Semi-Perfect Cell before he decides to self-destruct.
  • Goku and Vegeta play Rock Paper Scissors in order to determine who gets to fight Goku Black the second time around, and Vegeta wins, beating Goku’s scissors with rock and declaring that he will not fall for such cheap tricks anymore, a callback to Goku and Vegeta playing Rock Paper Scissors in the Buu Saga in order to determine who gets to fight Kid Buu first, with Goku beating Vegeta’s scissors with rock.
I would make a CRT for this topic, but I need to gather up more stuff from the Super anime. But, the manga and the anime are constantly portrayed as and considered distinct continuities, with one taking after the original manga, and the other taking after the original anime.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Both Viz and Toei have continued their respective works to be separate from each other.

Viz considers the Super manga to be the canonical continuation of Toriyama's work and places it on a timeline alongside the original story.

Furthermore, Toriyama, Toyotaro, and Viz speak of the manga as though it really is just an extension of the original.



On the other hand, Toei places the Super anime on a timeline with the previous three anime... which includes GT for some reason-

Along with that, the Super anime was consistently referred to as "the first anime in eighteen years", with Dragon Ball GT having ended in 1997 (remember, the anime started in 2015), and is considered the direct continuation of the anime series that ended sometime ago.


Original Japanese​
English Translation (DeepL)​
アニメーションシリーズの「Ｚ」と「ＧＴ」の間、つまり、原作517話で魔人ブウとの戦いが終わった後、518話までの空白の10年の間に起こったエピソードが初めて描かれる。For the first time, episodes that took place during the gap of 10 years between "Z" and "GT" of the animation series, that is, after the battle with Majin Buu ended in episode 517 of the original story, until episode 518, will be depicted.

Also, when Toriyama talks about the Super anime, he also references the other anime series as though they were related.


The counterargument the Wiki currently employs is that, "Both the anime and the manga are based on Toriyama's draft, meaning they are both continuations of the manga", but that means little to nothing. This draft is Super and was adapted by two different teams into two separate stories based off of two separate continuities.

Besides, the anime makes numerous references to the original anime and the Z anime with varying sizes and significance. For example:
  • After Ginyu-Tagoma finished telling his story to Frieza, detailing how he was converted into a frog and what he did after being transported to Earth by the Dragon Ball, Bulma angrily voices comments on the Ginyu-Frog and is flustered when Goten and Trunks ask her about it, a very obvious callback to the time when Ginyu-Frog body-swapped with Bulma on Planet Namek -- anime-exclusive.
  • In Future Trunks' flashback about his Gohan's death, he transforms into a Super Saiyan for the first time upon coming across Gohan's body in the rain, events that are nearly a shot-for-shot reaction of those in the TV special, but not the manga version of events in which Trunks had already achieved Super Saiyan prior to Gohan’s death and did not transform after finding his body. Also, another thing to note is that Gohan tricked Trunks into looking away from him before striking the boy, whereas in the TV special and the reanimated flashback, Gohan agreed to fight with Trunks and struck him in the neck while he prepared to fly off.
  • All of the flashbacks to Gohan's battle with Cell as a Super Saiyan 2 reuse anime footage, and they also reuse scenes that were not included in the manga, such as Cell unsuccessfully launching Destructo Discs at him, and Gohan toying with Semi-Perfect Cell before he decides to self-destruct.
  • Goku and Vegeta play Rock Paper Scissors in order to determine who gets to fight Goku Black the second time around, and Vegeta wins, beating Goku’s scissors with rock and declaring that he will not fall for such cheap tricks anymore, a callback to Goku and Vegeta playing Rock Paper Scissors in the Buu Saga in order to determine who gets to fight Kid Buu first, with Goku beating Vegeta’s scissors with rock.
I would make a CRT for this topic, but I need to gather up more stuff from the Super anime. But, the manga and the anime are constantly portrayed as and considered distinct continuities, with one taking after the original manga, and the other taking after the original anime.
Click to expand...
Interesting, this all looks really good. But I am neutral, I can't say I agree or disagree.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
I'm here worried about when are we gonna finally have an answer for lifting strength
Click to expand...
that-will-never-happen-nevermind.gif
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Both Viz and Toei have continued their respective works to be separate from each other.

Viz considers the Super manga to be the canonical continuation of Toriyama's work and places it on a timeline alongside the original story.

Furthermore, Toriyama, Toyotaro, and Viz speak of the manga as though it really is just an extension of the original.



On the other hand, Toei places the Super anime on a timeline with the previous three anime... which includes GT for some reason-

Along with that, the Super anime was consistently referred to as "the first anime in eighteen years", with Dragon Ball GT having ended in 1997 (remember, the anime started in 2015), and is considered the direct continuation of the anime series that ended sometime ago.


Original Japanese​
English Translation (DeepL)​
アニメーションシリーズの「Ｚ」と「ＧＴ」の間、つまり、原作517話で魔人ブウとの戦いが終わった後、518話までの空白の10年の間に起こったエピソードが初めて描かれる。For the first time, episodes that took place during the gap of 10 years between "Z" and "GT" of the animation series, that is, after the battle with Majin Buu ended in episode 517 of the original story, until episode 518, will be depicted.

Also, when Toriyama talks about the Super anime, he also references the other anime series as though they were related.


The counterargument the Wiki currently employs is that, "Both the anime and the manga are based on Toriyama's draft, meaning they are both continuations of the manga", but that means little to nothing. This draft is Super and was adapted by two different teams into two separate stories based off of two separate continuities.

Besides, the anime makes numerous references to the original anime and the Z anime with varying sizes and significance. For example:
  • After Ginyu-Tagoma finished telling his story to Frieza, detailing how he was converted into a frog and what he did after being transported to Earth by the Dragon Ball, Bulma angrily voices comments on the Ginyu-Frog and is flustered when Goten and Trunks ask her about it, a very obvious callback to the time when Ginyu-Frog body-swapped with Bulma on Planet Namek -- anime-exclusive.
  • In Future Trunks' flashback about his Gohan's death, he transforms into a Super Saiyan for the first time upon coming across Gohan's body in the rain, events that are nearly a shot-for-shot reaction of those in the TV special, but not the manga version of events in which Trunks had already achieved Super Saiyan prior to Gohan’s death and did not transform after finding his body. Also, another thing to note is that Gohan tricked Trunks into looking away from him before striking the boy, whereas in the TV special and the reanimated flashback, Gohan agreed to fight with Trunks and struck him in the neck while he prepared to fly off.
  • All of the flashbacks to Gohan's battle with Cell as a Super Saiyan 2 reuse anime footage, and they also reuse scenes that were not included in the manga, such as Cell unsuccessfully launching Destructo Discs at him, and Gohan toying with Semi-Perfect Cell before he decides to self-destruct.
  • Goku and Vegeta play Rock Paper Scissors in order to determine who gets to fight Goku Black the second time around, and Vegeta wins, beating Goku’s scissors with rock and declaring that he will not fall for such cheap tricks anymore, a callback to Goku and Vegeta playing Rock Paper Scissors in the Buu Saga in order to determine who gets to fight Kid Buu first, with Goku beating Vegeta’s scissors with rock.
I would make a CRT for this topic, but I need to gather up more stuff from the Super anime. But, the manga and the anime are constantly portrayed as and considered distinct continuities, with one taking after the original manga, and the other taking after the original anime.
Click to expand...
I LOVE THIS
 
That's kinda huge. Actually...does this mean the Otherworld speed feat can be applied to Super? I mean they hardly need it honestly, considering how fast they already are.
 
This would also give DBS anime Goku plenty of additional powers and abilities, such as heat resistance in all forms from the beginning of Super.
 
RinneItachi said:
That's kinda huge. Actually...does this mean the Otherworld speed feat can be applied to Super? I mean they hardly need it honestly, considering how fast they already are.
Click to expand...
It would actually be better to scale them from the other world feat because the scaling chain and multipliers are far longer.
 
We've had several discussions on it. In different interviews, both the manga and anime are said to be a continuation of the original work. Nothing is going to change, that's all old info.
 
AKM sama said:
We've had several discussions on it. In different interviews, both the manga and anime are said to be a continuation of the original work. Nothing is going to change, that's all old info.
Click to expand...
Can you provide the evidence to said claim instead of the usual
"NO MEANS NO!"
crap you guys always pull
 
You can always search for old threads where it has been discussed several times. I don't keep them on me at all times.

In short: Akira Toriyama does not write either the anime or the manga. He writes small notes for the story of Dragon Ball Super, which is the continuation of the original story. This story points are given to both Toei and Toyo and they expand upon them according to their own takes. You can understand it as both anime and manga being equally canon or non-canon to the original story. You're a long time member so I expected you to know such trivial details.
 
Last edited:
And as a long time member I've had my disagreements in the past about such issues. For example how the retelling of Trunks and Gohan follow according to what happen in the anime and not according to Toriyama's manga take of the event. Toei does go off of the notes that Toriyama gives but that doesn't mean they are limited to his own original works. Toei constantly sources the likes of their own anime as seen in Episode 1(Flashback of the defeat of Buu), Episode 39 (Flashback to Z Kai Goku v Vegeta fight), Episode 47 (Flashback to Z Kai Vegeta and Gohan's fight with Cell) and Episode 76 has literally 5 flashbacks to the Z anime.

It's clear as day that Toei also reference/source their own work throughout the show and it's production which would give credibility to Null's post. Complete denial of this is just ignorance at this point.
 
Yeah, Toei can change the story according to how they wish, and so can Toyotaro. Both have liberties in that area. Just because Toei decided to use already animated shots or chose to add details from the past anime, doesn't mean it's canon to that. It just fits under the liberty they have been provided by Toriyama. What's next? If Toyo took a concept straight from his fan manga and incorporated it in the DBS manga, would the DBS manga become a canon product of the fan manga? No, that'd just fall under the liberty Toyo has been provided with.
 
BlackeJan said:
"Or better still....to die....in disgrace AT THE HANDS OF YOUR MASTER!”

- Frieza

Chris Ayers best Frieza line
Click to expand...
Yeah, Frieza's betrayal of Goku's trust has an amazing line in Kai. I'll fully quote it.

"I am Lord Frieza, none surpass me, no one even comes close! Etch this into your skull, I am Emperor of the Universe! The likes of you are only fit to grovel at my feet! ...Or better still...to die...IN DISGRACE, AT THE HANDS OF YOUR MASTER!"
 
One of my favorite was when he unveiled his true form and killed Dende:
"I promised you, didn't I? That I'd show you a nightmare beyond the horrors of Hell?
Of course I had hoped to include all of you. But from the looks of things, it seems the little one (Dende) won't be joining us. Such a shame don't you think? When you see him in the next world, I suppose you'll have to tell him what he missed."
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
One of my favorite was when he unveiled his true form and killed Dende:
"I promised you, didn't I? That I'd show you a nightmare beyond the horrors of Hell?
Of course I had hoped to include all of you. But from the looks of things, it seems the little one (Dende) won't be joining us. Such a shame don't you think? When you see him in the next world, I suppose you'll have to tell him what he missed."
Click to expand...
 
No doubt it sucks, Chris Ayres tbh was of the only few pre Super DB English VAs I liked because IIRC he didn't talk smack to Vic Mignogna during those accusations from a few years ago. Which, even if it sounds petty, is why I watched Dragon Ball in Japanese more then English
 
Looking at the times Chris Ayres did Frieza lines…. How did he make Frieza sound evil yet polite and badass at the same time it’s ******* unreal
 
I am no Toriyama puritan -- the type of people who only accept the original Dragon Ball and Neko Majin Z as the canonical entries and praises the man's immortal beauty on a regular basis -- but, I can tell when a story is confused and scrambling to put something together, and I can tell when a story is just uninteresting no matter what.

The Super manga falls under both of those.

The most exciting and interesting moment to me was when Goku reawakened the perfected Ultra Instinct form and punched Moro in the air. To me, something is just inherently wrong with this manga, but I cannot seem to put my finger on it.
 
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