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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

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Can't believe Elec is the one who mudered Granolah's mom. He was working for his mother killer the entire time. Poor Granolah.
 
I know they killed his mom, I read the chapter, all I'm saying is that I expected them to have some connection to Granolah's past and this chapter confirmed my suspicions
 
Good chapter imo. I think that Granolah waking up just so that they could get noticed was a little forced, but it's alright. Seeing more of Bardock's backstory, his change of heart, and being the one who saved Granolah twice was great, not to mention that FINALLY GOKU KNOWS BARDOCK'S NAME. I don't expect them to ever meet in canon, but at least Goku finally knows a bit of who his dad was.

And yeah a casual moon obliterating feat from a nameless fodder that doesn't even compare to an average Saiyan soldier is great. It further shows how easily these characters can do such feats and that they're very obviously controlling the area their blasts effect.

And a profile for canon Bardock doesn't sound bad. I've read that in an interview, Toriyama said he was in the upper echelon of Low-Class Saiyan's, but right below Mid-Class which is where Raditz and Nappa were. Considering that Raditz is a Mid-Class but got viewed as garbage by Nappa and Vegeta, he was probably among the weaker ones. So it isn't doubtful that canon Bardock was at least comparable to Raditz, and definitely stronger than start of Z Piccolo and obviously DB Roshi.
 
Hello. I am trying to revise Z scaling and I am having trouble with the Z sword.
We know shin scales to SSJ Goku in the cell saga, SSJ gohan scales above that and adult gohan's power is equal to that because his power stagnated for 7 years, This gohan was far weaker than dabura who's equal to cell, this is consistent as cell was also far stronger than a younger gohan.
We know nobody could pull the Z sword until Gohan, Gohan couldn't pull the sword in base and needed SSJ, now the problem starts here, the scaling is supposed to be that Gohan can lift the sword in base while shin can't making buu saga SSJ characters 50x stronger than cell saga, but when SSJ gohan pulled the Z sword, he immediately reverted to base and was still able to hold the Z sword, this means that the sword is significantly harder to pull than it is to lift, this also means that shin should also be able to hold it invalidating the scaling.
But that's not all, if we can get an implication that shin can't lift the Z sword after it's pulled then this scaling can be used and the justification would be that Gohan got a zenkai after getting shit on by buu and healed by kibito, so far I've not been able to find anything concrete other than Shin and kibito being impressed with Gohan wielding the sword so well so quickly, so if you guys can help me find anything that proves the saiyans being greater than shin in base it would be awesome.
 
Alright I did some more research and found that Shin was scared to fight pui pui and yakon, and suggested that they fight them together when he didn't know goku and vegeta's true power and said they surpassed him and was shocked at their power (which btw is greater than that of yakon and pui pui's in base duh), dabura and babidi also thought that yakon was overkill despite knowing about supreme kai's power. This all should be enough to prove that yakon and pui pui are stronger than shin and that base saiyans surpass the super saiyans in cell saga (except for gohan until he gets the Z sword).
 
Also, there's a theory that the Saiyan who killed the moon-busting guy was actually Nappa. He has a similar mustache, and more importantly Nappa considered himself an Elite and I believe might've been a Saiyan general once? Which is contradictory to what we see and hear in canon about how his power. So it's possible that Nappa was referring to his younger self. And the scaling makes sense because Leek, even in his Great Ape form, was damaged by an attack from a nameless Cerealian that this other dude easily killed in base, so the latter was almost certainly an upper tier Saiyan.
 
RinneItachi said:
Also, there's a theory that the Saiyan who killed the moon-busting guy was actually Nappa. He has a similar mustache, and more importantly Nappa considered himself an Elite and I believe might've been a Saiyan general once? Which is contradictory to what we see and hear in canon about how his power. So it's possible that Nappa was referring to his younger self. And the scaling makes sense because Leek, even in his Great Ape form, was damaged by an attack from a nameless Cerealian that this other dude easily killed in base, so the latter was almost certainly an upper tier Saiyan.
Click to expand...
Its Taro actually
dragonball.fandom.com

Taro (Saiyan)

Directory: Characters → Saiyan Taro (タロ, Taro)[3][4] is a Saiyan and old comrade of Bardock's. Like all Universe 7 Saiyans, Taro possesses a tail and also wears clothing of Saiyans who worked under the Frieza Force. He also possesses a mustache and has a well-built physique. Like most Saiyans...
dragonball.fandom.com dragonball.fandom.com
 
I found something really interesting. I'll also start posting the sources for the scans that weren't working earlier.
Vegeta stated that he'd be able to win the world tournament without using super saiyan despite knowing piccolo is going to participate, this happened when Gohan asked trunks and vegeta to not use super saiyan during the tournament (Dragon ball manga chapter 430 page 6).
Shin worried about vegeta fighting pui pui alone (DB manga chapter 449 page 5-6)
Shin shocked at vegeta's base power when fighting pui pui (DB manga chapter 449 page 14)
Dabura states that yakon is strong enough to kill everyone there despite knowing about supreme kai's power (DB manga chapter 450 page 3)
Shin again shocked about the saiyans power (DB manga chapter 450 pg 5)
Shin worried about Goku fighting Yakon and suggest they fight him together (DB manga chapter 450 page 9)
Shin again suggest they fight Yakon together with Goku and is serious (DB manga chapter 451 page 8)
Shin says he's been surpassed by the saiyans (DB manga chapter 552 page 2)
Conclusion
Shin = Cell saga Goku < Post zenkai base Gohan ~ base Goku ~ base Vegeta. (pre zenkai SSJ Gohan is equal to his cell saga SSJ self who scales above cell saga Goku)
Now it's unknown whether base Gohan surpassed his previous SSJ form or not, so I just put him above Shin and removed his previous self from the scaling chain, though this would mean perfect cell and dabura would not scale to SSJ Vegeta and Goku and post zenkai SSJ Gohan, so the second scaling chain would be Shin = cell saga Goku < Cell saga Gohan = pre zenkai gohan <<< perfect cell and dabura, and SSJ Goku and vegeta would scale above both scaling chains because their value will change 50x the previous two scaling chains.
Thoughts?
 
I know it’s filler but didn’t SSJ Goku one shot PC in hell? also we have to take into account that all the minions were amped by the Majin symbol so Shin could be stronger then Yakon and Pui if they didn’t have those symbols
 
BlackeJan said:
I know it’s filler but didn’t SSJ Goku one shot PC in hell? also we have to take into account that all the minions were amped by the Majin symbol so Shin could be stronger then Yakon and Pui if they didn’t have those symbols
Click to expand...
Yes he did.
The majin amp is irrelevant, as all pui pui and yakon serve to prove is that the base forms of goku and vegeta are stronger than shin since they are stronger than yakon and pui pui.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
So Cell Jr = Cell saga SSJ Goku = Piccolo < Shin < base Vegeta < Base Goku?

Wouldn’t this make ssj Goku 4-B?
Click to expand...
Cell Jr doesn't equal SSJ Goku, Goku was weakened, Shin is equal in power to SSJ Goku and Vegeta and Goku in the buu saga are above shin.
Piccolo <<< Shin = Goku < Base Goku/ vegeta/ zenkai Gohan.
No he'd still be large star level but 50x higher than a value that's a little above baseline. BTW the shin high 4-C+ feat was debunked so that's getting destroyed if you didn't know already.
 
Cell Jr. < Piccolo < Shin = SSJ Goku (Cell Games) < Base Gohan (Buu Saga) < Base Vegeta < Base Goku < SSJ Gohan (Cell Games) < SSJ Goku (Buu Saga) < Perfect Cell

Is this correct?
 
Vizer04 said:
Cell Jr. < Piccolo < Shin = SSJ Goku (Cell Games) < Base Gohan (Buu Saga) < Base Vegeta < Base Goku < SSJ Gohan (Cell Games) < SSJ Goku (Buu Saga) < Perfect Cell

Is this correct?
Click to expand...
Base Gohan is above shin after he gets slapped by buu when he pulls the sword, SSJ Gohan in the cell games is weird since he simply scales above SSJ Goku in the cell games/shin, so you have to make another scaling chain with that since there's no indication of how people above shin scale to SSJ Gohan, and also perfect cell, though, SSJ Goku in the buu saga stomps cell, he stomps everybody on that list.
Piccolo <<< Shin = SSJ Goku cell saga < Base Gohan < Vegeta < Goku <<< (50x) = SSJ Goku
Shin = SSJ Goku cell saga < SSJ Gohan cell saga = SSJ Gohan buu saga (pre zenkai) <<< Perfect cell, but still below SSJ Goku buu saga (Goku and vegeta viewed dabura as a non threat).
 
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