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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Sure, I concede the fact that Gohan Vs. Cell is not consistent with a 2x multiplier. But would it be impossible to count that as an outlier given the reasoning I provided before?

"Super Saiyan 2 is his true potential moment, just extended." Like this. SSJ2 was originally not a named transformation, and we knew extremely little about it. We weren't even sure if others could use it because it seemed like thing exclusive to Gohan. Then we move on to the Buu Saga, and after a volume or two we learn that apparently Goku and Vegeta now have it as well. And after this point nothing contradicts SSJ2 being a 2x multiplier to my knowledge, and the only thing that doesn't make sense is the initial reveal of the form with Gohan.
 
RinneItachi said:
Sure, I concede the fact that Gohan Vs. Cell is not consistent with a 2x multiplier. But would it be impossible to count that as an outlier given the reasoning I provided before?

"Super Saiyan 2 is his true potential moment, just extended." Like this. SSJ2 was originally not a named transformation, and we knew extremely little about it. We weren't even sure if others could use it because it seemed like thing exclusive to Gohan. Then we move on to the Buu Saga, and after a volume or two we learn that apparently Goku and Vegeta now have it as well. And after this point nothing contradicts SSJ2 being a 2x multiplier to my knowledge, and the only thing that doesn't make sense is the initial reveal of the form with Gohan.
Click to expand...
There's nothing to support it being 2x either is there?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
There's nothing to support it being 2x either is there?
Click to expand...
Not sure, I would need to look through the Buu Saga again. Honestly the only thing I can remember that shows a direct comparison of 1 to 2 is Goku against Jiren. In SSJ1 his blows literally do nothing whatsoever to Jiren. In SSJ2 it just barely makes his head tilt. But obviously there's almost nothing we can derive from that. If Goku went SSJ3 there as well it would've actually been pretty helpful.
 
Didn't someone suggest though that we could also use 2x multiplier as a conservative increase for SSJ2 if it's obvious that the multiplier is above that?
 
This whole operation would probably flow much more smoothly if there were feats to back up these ratings. A shame, really.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
This whole operation would probably flow much more smoothly if there were feats to back up these ratings. A shame, really.
Click to expand...
So unfortunate that Toriyama couldn't write the Z Fighters darting across solar systems and galaxies during their fights because it isn't his style.

If Saiyan Saga characters are already FTL then obviously Buu Saga top tiers are going to be MFTL+, because we know speed scales with power in Dragon Ball. If a character gets 10x stronger, that also means they're 10x faster. Which was recently accepted. I'm fine with not using actual attack potency to scale for speed, because saying Cell is trillions or quadrillions of times FTL via being solar system level while Saiyan Saga FTL characters peak at planet level is obviously a very big leap in logic and isn't supported by any evidence outside of linear power and speed scaling thing. But either way, characters on that level would indeed be massively faster than the FTL Saiyan Saga characters, and I doubt anyone will deny that, feats or otherwise.

Honestly, would it be impossible to use conservative scaling across DBZ? Like, for example, Imperfect Cell was considerably weaker than Piccolo, but after absorbing people he was so powerful he tanked Piccolo's last ditch effort super attack and sustained literally 0 injury before 2 shotting him to the brink of death, obviously the gap between them is immense. Then Imperfect Cell fights on par with Android 16 before absorbing 17. Then Semi-Perfect Cell effortlessly tanks all of 16's attacks before one-shotting him. And so on.

It sounds a little silly to scale in that manner, but it would be a legitimate method, the scaling chains in DB are ******* absurd.
 
Wait, I just realized DBZ characters already have MFTL+ ratings and get faster progressively via scaling, just MFTL+ exclusively with transformations. Never mind then.
 
RinneItachi said:
So unfortunate that Toriyama couldn't write the Z Fighters darting across solar systems and galaxies during their fights because it isn't his style.

If Saiyan Saga characters are already FTL then obviously Buu Saga top tiers are going to be MFTL+, because we know speed scales with power in Dragon Ball. If a character gets 10x stronger, that also means they're 10x faster. Which was recently accepted. I'm fine with not using actual attack potency to scale for speed, because saying Cell is trillions or quadrillions of times FTL via being solar system level while Saiyan Saga FTL characters peak at planet level is obviously a very big leap in logic and isn't supported by any evidence outside of linear power and speed scaling thing. But either way, characters on that level would indeed be massively faster than the FTL Saiyan Saga characters, and I doubt anyone will deny that, feats or otherwise.

Honestly, would it be impossible to use conservative scaling across DBZ? Like, for example, Imperfect Cell was considerably weaker than Piccolo, but after absorbing people he was so powerful he tanked Piccolo's last ditch effort super attack and sustained literally 0 injury before 2 shotting him to the brink of death, obviously the gap between them is immense. Then Imperfect Cell fights on par with Android 16 before absorbing 17. Then Semi-Perfect Cell effortlessly tanks all of 16's attacks before one-shotting him. And so on.

It sounds a little silly to scale in that manner, but it would be a legitimate method, the scaling chains in DB are ******* absurd.
Click to expand...
That is already what we do.
 
Also, the gap between Kame House and North City is 2,700 kilometers -- just over four-times smaller than the diameter of Earth.
That means the Earth in the Dragon World is pretty massive.
 
COHfG9y.png


This is not even the entirety of the planet. This is just the part that Goku and co. live in.
This section alone would be roughly 5940 kilometers, whereas the diameter of our Earth is 12,742 kilometers.
 
It's because time and space works differently on the route to Kame House, and while the actual distance is still lower than 3,000 KM, from the perspective of the one traveling there it'd be more like 10k+. 🤡
 
RinneItachi said:
It's because time and space works differently on the route to Kame House, and while the actual distance is still lower than 3,000 KM, from the perspective of the one traveling there it'd be more like 10k+. 🤡
Click to expand...
Of course, I should have guessed
 
I don't have high hopes, but I still hope we get some good feats from the upcoming movie. Some kind of MFTL+ speed feat (like the fighting in the space and sun which we didn't get to see in Broly), or AP feats (I hope the villain destroys a few universes in a single shot lol), or good hax or resistances, anything, just give us something Toei.
 
AKM sama said:
I don't have high hopes, but I still hope we get some good feats from the upcoming movie. Some kind of MFTL+ speed feat (like the fighting in the space and sun which we didn't get to see in Broly), or AP feats (I hope the villain destroys a few universes in a single shot lol), or good hax or resistances, anything, just give us something Toei.
Click to expand...
I’m mainly hoping for hax
 
i have a feeling that dragon ball will get some crazy hax that would make the verse op
 
People worrying about low 2-C stuff and MFTL speeds

I'm here worried about when are we gonna finally have an answer for lifting strength
 
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