Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Huesito88]

space time manipulation and Kid Buu is not stronger than Buuhan

Yes, but we also rate it as scaling to all Stats here

 

[JJSliderman]

Is being able to survive with chunks of your soul taken away count as resistance to soul damage?

Limited, yeah.

 

[Alexander]

Yes, but we also rate it as scaling to all Stats here

and I ask, why or what?

 

[Huesito88]

and I ask, why or what?

Rephrase your wording (I don't understand)

 

[Alexander]

Rephrase your wording (I don't understand)

why?

 

[Huesito88]

why?

Thread 'DB Toei - About Buuhan's Tier 2 rating'

Apr 16, 2023

Hi all.

So, by pure chance, I found that we have a profile for Majin Buu from the Toei Continuity. More importantly I also noticed we now finally use this feat:

Low Multiverse level Environmental Destruction with Outside Space (Warps space and rips through the wall between dimensions, which would have eventually resulted in a multitude of alternate dimensions flowing into the universe and crushing it)

I took a peek at the thread where that was added, and from what I can tell (Here, here, here, here and...

• Ultima_Reality
• dragon ball majin buu toei
• Replies: 330
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

 

[Alexander]

Thread 'DB Toei - About Buuhan's Tier 2 rating'

Apr 16, 2023

Hi all.

So, by pure chance, I found that we have a profile for Majin Buu from the Toei Continuity. More importantly I also noticed we now finally use this feat:

Low Multiverse level Environmental Destruction with Outside Space (Warps space and rips through the wall between dimensions, which would have eventually resulted in a multitude of alternate dimensions flowing into the universe and crushing it)

I took a peek at the thread where that was added, and from what I can tell (Here, here, here, here and...

• Ultima_Reality
• dragon ball majin buu toei
• Replies: 330
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

i still think the environmental thing works better than just, outright scaling

 

[Ednaxel2]

space time manipulation and Kid Buu is not stronger than Buuhan

 

[Alexander]

you know how i am

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

If I can recall yes

However the Buuhan feat still exists, and Kid Buu is very well above him

I remember this well, so is anyone doing something about 2-C Buu saga? I'm really worried about outdated profiles.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Good

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

"Before reaching the final line, however, he had already understood that he would never leave that room, for it was foreseen that the city of mirrors (or mirages) would be wiped out by the wind and exiled from the memory of men at the precise moment when Aureliano Babilonia would finish deciphering the parchments, and that everything written on them was unrepeatable since time immemorial and forever more, because races condemned to one hundred years of solitude did not have a second opportunity on earth"

Where did you get this text from, Mr. Alexander?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

i still think the environmental thing works better than just, outright scaling

This is in the profile of Seu Madruga

 

[Alexander]

Where did you get this text from, Mr. Alexander?

proceeds to denote it in bold

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

proceeds to denote it in bold

What is bold?

 

[Alexander]

What is bold?

this

 

[Alexander]

This is in the profile of Seu Madruga

who the **** is that?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

who the **** is that?

We here in Brazil call it Yhwach

 

[Alexander]

We here in Brazil call it Yhwach

oh, ahora eso tiene sentido

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

i still think the environmental thing works better than just, outright scaling

No it does not, Buu's thing was done with his own Ki. He was breaking/affecting the dimensional walls of the universe on a 4-D level, you need like tier 2 energy output to do that regardless, becouse affecting it does count aswell. Thats AP, the people that say it doesn't scale to Buu's stats either do not know how Ki works or didnt watch Dragon Ball Z properly

 

[Alexander]

No it does not, Buu's thing was done with his own Ki. He was breaking/affecting the dimensional walls of the universe on a 4-D level, you need like tier 2 energy output to do that regardless, becouse affecting it does count aswell. Thats AP, the people that say it doesn't scale to Buu's stats either do not know how Ki works or didnt watch Dragon Ball Z properly

aha, and many other things are done with Ki and that does not automatically make it a direct scaling to power.
actually thats a very big insult because it would be arguing that at that point in the story, the characters were universal, when obviosly they were not

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

actually thats a very big insult because it would be arguing that at that point in the story, the characters were universal, when obviosly they were not

And how is that a "very big insult" exactly? Because it was stated verbatim that Buuhan was going to collapse the universe with his own power. And then they introduce Kid Buu, who in the anime continuity was stated by the narrator and characters like Goku to be the strongest version of Buu at that point, who has his own feats at that level like threatening to destroy the Grand Kaioshin Planet or destroying the Kaioshin Realm alongside Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

So whether you want to say it's some insult or not, there's clearly an intent to have those characters be that strong at the end of Z/Kai.

 

[Alexander]

And how is that a "very big insult" exactly? Because it was stated verbatim that Buuhan was going to collapse the universe with his own power. And then they introduce Kid Buu, who in the anime continuity was stated by the narrator and characters like Goku to be the strongest version of Buu at that point, who has his own feats at that level like threatening to destroy the Grand Kaioshin Planet or destroying the Kaioshin Realm alongside Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

So whether you want to say it's some insult or not, there's clearly an intent to have those characters be that strong at the end of Z/Kai.

a very big insult to the story and logic?

Goku, needed VEGETO and that was a mandatory fusion to defeat Buuhan, and Goku fighting Buuhan is a tremendous inconsistency because Gohan in his ultimate phase>Goku super saiyan 3, and the argument that "Goku grew in power" does not work Because Goku did not train, Goku only revived, but reviving does not increase his power, he only does it when he obtains a zenkai, which is when he is on the verge of dying, and he was not on the verge of dying, he was directly dead.
and Kid Buu has not shown me anything to be the most powerful Buu beyond fighting against Super Saiyan 3, he has only proven to be the most dangerous because, that thing does not reason, it destroys things and that's it.

 

[RedReaper616]

aha, and many other things are done with Ki and that does not automatically make it a direct scaling to power.

But that doesn’t matter. Vice Shout is explicitly a matter of power, and all that feat is—Named Outside Space—Is a massively amplified version of Vice Shout. As stated by the Daizenshuu.

actually thats a very big insult because it would be arguing that at that point in the story, the characters were universal, when obviosly they were not

…
Huh? How?

 

[Alexander]

But that doesn’t matter. Vice Shout is explicitly a matter of power, and all that feat is—Named Outside Space—Is a massively amplified version of Vice Shout. As stated by the Daizenshuu.

1. In fact it does matter, because again, just because it is an ability made by ki does not mean that it is something as related to power, it would be like shunkanido, it is not related to speed, or the mafuuba, or the time stop ability from guldo.

…
Huh? How?

I don't know, somehow Goku in Super Saiyan 3 is more powerful than HIS SON, who was said to have surpassed him in Power after unlocking his mystical state?

 

[RedReaper616]

Goku, needed VEGETO and that was a mandatory fusion to defeat Buuhan, and Goku fighting Buuhan is a tremendous inconsistency

Except it gets supported multiple times.

because Gohan in his ultimate phase>Goku super saiyan 3,

Goku then fought and matched a perfect copy of him in just Base-SSJ, while nerfed to 1/100th of his true strength.

and the argument that "Goku grew in power" does not work Because Goku did not train, Goku only revived, but reviving does not increase his power, he only does it when he obtains a zenkai, which is when he is on the verge of dying, and he was not on the verge of dying, he was directly dead.

This is wrong. In the Toei Anime’s continuity it’s explicitly stated Saiyans get their Zenkai’s just from reviving too. Twice.

and Kid Buu has not shown me anything to be the most powerful Buu beyond fighting against Super Saiyan 3, he has only proven to be the most dangerous because, that thing does not reason, it destroys things and that's it.

In the Manga he is the most dangerous, but not the strongest. In the Anime, a separate continuity, they explicitly state Kid Buu is the most powerful Buu. Repeatedly. Goku, Vegeta, the Narrator—They’re all saying the same thing. Genuinely just is different.

 

[RedReaper616]

1. In fact it does matter, because again, just because it is an ability made by ki does not mean that it is something as related to power, it would be like shunkanido, it is not related to speed, or the mafuuba, or the time stop ability from guldo.

That’s irrelevant to the point. Yes, that’s true, but it doesn’t matter because it explicitly is just Vice Shout but BIGGER. And Vice Shout explicitly is SOLELY a power thing.

I don't know, somehow Goku in Super Saiyan 3 is more powerful than HIS SON, who was said to have surpassed him in Power after unlocking his mystical state?

Ask Toei? They’re the ones who made him beat Ultimate Gohan without even using his max, and then fight a stronger Buu.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No it does not, Buu's thing was done with his own Ki. He was breaking/affecting the dimensional walls of the universe on a 4-D level, you need like tier 2 energy output to do that regardless, becouse affecting it does count aswell. Thats AP, the people that say it doesn't scale to Buu's stats either do not know how Ki works or didnt watch Dragon Ball Z properly

Facts, it's the same as the Kamehameha that the guys are using as a context to downgrade.

 

[Alexander]

Except it gets supported multiple times.

Well, it makes it worse because they constantly put up with inconsistency, if a character has blue hair, and then they tell me it's green (for no reason) and they constantly tell me it's true, I'm left with a face like "what nonsense is this?"

Goku then fought and matched a perfect copy of him in just Base-SSJ, while nerfed to 1/100th of his true strength.

You mean Buuhan? When Goku didn't fight Buuhan because he was clearly going to lose?

This is wrong. In the Toei Anime’s continuity it’s explicitly stated Saiyans get their Zenkai’s just from reviving too. Twice.

contradiction.

In the Manga he is the most dangerous, but not the strongest. In the Anime, a separate continuity, they explicitly state Kid Buu is the most powerful Buu. Repeatedly. Goku, Vegeta, the Narrator—They’re all saying the same thing. Genuinely just is different.
CONTRADICTION
like, Buu lost all of his power, and got turned back to a more primordial self, and somehow, that makes him stronger?MAGICALLY???

 

[Alexander]

Facts, it's the same as the Kamehameha that the guys are using as a context to downgrade.

No, the kamehameha is completely different from using a ki distortion (space-time manipulation) to break dimensions (god knows what they are, the time chambers? hell and the afterlife?)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No, the kamehameha is completely different from using a ki distortion (space-time manipulation) to break dimensions (god knows what they are, the time chambers? hell and the afterlife?)

You use the Kamehameha with ki right?

 

[Alexander]

I would buy Kid Buu to be stronger, if this were a series where you get stronger for existing (I'm looking at you, Sonic the hedgehog) but here in this series, you don't get stronger for existing, they have to, yes or yes, train to become stronger (or become extremely angry).

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Facts, it's the same as the Kamehameha that the guys are using as a context to downgrade.

Seriously this people indeed do not know how Ki works. They call themselves "DB Fans" when they are constantly downplaying the series due to some nonsensical misinterpretations

 

[Alexander]

You use the Kamehameha with ki right?

It is not the same form, the kamehameha is used as a wave to directly damage, while what Majin buu or Buuhan does is to travel between dimensions, basically like a portal.

 

[RedReaper616]

Well, it makes it worse because they constantly put up with inconsistency, if a character has blue hair, and then they tell me it's green (for no reason) and they constantly tell me it's true, I'm left with a face like "what nonsense is this?"

I mean, DBS Trunks happened.

You mean Buuhan? When Goku didn't fight Buuhan because he was clearly going to lose?

No. In one of the Inside Buu episodes, Goku fights a Gohan Thought-Form made by Buu that is explicitly stated to be equal to the original. Meanwhile, the TV Daizenshuu states that Goku and Vegeta were at 1/100th their original power inside Buu. Meaning Base-SSJ Goku at 1/100th = Ultimate Gohan. In Toei.

contradiction.

No? Nothing contradicts this except the fact it’s not a feature in the Manga…which no one claims it is.

CONTRADICTION
like, Buu lost all of his power, and got turned back to a more primordial self, and somehow, that makes him stronger?MAGICALLY???

According to Toei.

 

[Alexander]

Seriously this people indeed do not know how Ki works. They call themselves "DB Fans" when they are constantly downplaying the series due to some nonsensical misterpretations

I'm not a DB fan, I never said I was a DB fan, didn't you notice that I'm clearly not a DB fan?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Seriously this people indeed do not know how Ki works. They call themselves "DB Fans" when they are constantly downplaying the series due to some nonsensical misinterpretations

It's pretty funny to see people who call themselves "fans" using an excuse to downgrade.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

It's pretty funny to see people who call themselves "fans" using an excuse to downgrade.

pretty much

 

[Alexander]

I mean, DBS Trunks happened.

He has the excuse that he lives in a constantly shitty world and has to constantly train and get stronger.

No. In one of the Inside Buu episodes, Goku fights a Gohan Thought-Form made by Buu that is explicitly stated to be equal to the original. Meanwhile, the TV Daizenshuu states that Goku and Vegeta were at 1/100th their original power inside Buu. Meaning Base-SSJ Goku at 1/100th = Ultimate Gohan. In Toei.

that makes even less sense

No? Nothing contradicts this except the fact it’s not a feature in the Manga…which no one claims it is.

Manga>anime

According to Toei.

do you think i care about what Toei thinks?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It is not the same form, the kamehameha is used as a wave to directly damage, while what Majin buu or Buuhan does is to travel between dimensions, basically like a portal.

Answer my question, Kamehameha is done with ki, right?