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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Omegabronic said:
and when did i said that you said that? I wasn't even talking about something you said, but explaining my point about how the Kamehameha can either be somewhat above or far above the user


.........? Again, when have i said they never scale? They do......just not for every ki blast technique all the time, there are several cases and cases

also why so heated?


........isn't that phrase......oh i get it, i was using the wronf term, what i meant is "far higher" not "slightly", my goof here


.....that isn't what i asked tho?
"on its own of course, if it has an elaboration on how this "Kiai reflection" works exactly then that would help wonders"
I said it is via Kiai, i was asking for a statement on the mechanics of how the Kiai deflection works, not if it is done with the Kiai itself


Mm, didn't accused you to have......but ok


Kay........but does it explain how the deflection works? Cuz huh, that was what i was asking for elaboration



Via supernatural means, look, i......think, i know what you are meaning to say.......but you should really word it better, also......if Kiai's are dispersion of energy..... what exactly stops them from being above the user's own physical strenght like how the Ki Blasts attacks can also be?


Again, i think I know what you meant......but i am not sure, an energy beam made from your inner energy is factually supernatural........can you explain better what do you mean?


Not in specific, but his is clearly somewhat special if it can deflect Ki attacks easily like that......unless it is a thing all Kiais can do? Do we even have another example to know?


And in others is largely superior, it depends on the users power as well as how much energy they condense, which can make it a large one shot gap, which loops back to the problem in question with the circular scalling and such
Click to expand...
I pointed out how we know characters can physically scale to charged ki blasts from characters they are physically comparable to themselves. The first line of your response was the marginal increase remark, which is pretty clearly you implying I said that. It's like painfully clear, and it makes it exhausting to engage with you when every single time anyone responds to you, you bend yourself over backwards to either weasel out of something you said that has painfully clear meaning so you wave them off with the 'I didn't make that point' card, or you say that what you said actually meant something completely different that no one could reasonably interpet as such.

At the same time you don't give any of our points the same favorability, on the rare times you actually engage them.
 
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Tien deflected a Kamehameha with a Kiai, which we know for a fact is just AP.

Not a supernatural hax. You need to provide evidence for that claim instead of dodging that burden and passing it onto us, which you have a history of doing.

I know the quality of the response I'm going to get, so I'm going to stop engaging because the scans on Kiai being AP are pretty clear.
 
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Omegabronic said:
and when did i said that you said that? I wasn't even talking about something you said, but explaining my point about how the Kamehameha can either be somewhat above or far above the user


.........? Again, when have i said they never scale? They do......just not for every ki blast technique all the time, there are several cases and cases

also why so heated?


........isn't that phrase......oh i get it, i was using the wronf term, what i meant is "far higher" not "slightly", my goof here


.....that isn't what i asked tho?
"on its own of course, if it has an elaboration on how this "Kiai reflection" works exactly then that would help wonders"
I said it is via Kiai, i was asking for a statement on the mechanics of how the Kiai deflection works, not if it is done with the Kiai itself


Mm, didn't accused you to have......but ok


Kay........but does it explain how the deflection works? Cuz huh, that was what i was asking for elaboration



Via supernatural means, look, i......think, i know what you are meaning to say.......but you should really word it better, also......if Kiai's are dispersion of energy..... what exactly stops them from being above the user's own physical strenght like how the Ki Blasts attacks can also be?


Again, i think I know what you meant......but i am not sure, an energy beam made from your inner energy is factually supernatural........can you explain better what do you mean?


Not in specific, but his is clearly somewhat special if it can deflect Ki attacks easily like that......unless it is a thing all Kiais can do? Do we even have another example to know?


And in others is largely superior, it depends on the users power as well as how much energy they condense, which can make it a large one shot gap, which loops back to the problem in question with the circular scalling and such
Click to expand...
The statement literally says it happens via kiai. There isn’t anymore elaboration than this because it’s simply that. You’re putting a hax twist on it which is just adding stuff to something that doesn’t exist. We can just agree to disagre, but it’s already accepted that kiai is an energy-based thing, and not some mystical hax. It is literally energy dispersion from outwards your body.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
I pointed out how we know characters can physically scale to charged ki blasts from characters they are physically comparable to themselves. The first line of your response was the marginal increase remark, which is pretty clearly you implying I said that.
Click to expand...
Not really, it was me explaining my point further to you, i really don't see how it could imply you said it........specially when the message is right there showing exactly what you said

XXBenShapiroXx said:
It's like painfully clear, and it makes it exhausting to engage with you when every single time anyone responds to you, you bend yourself over backwards to either weasel out of something you said that has painfully clear meaning so you wave them off with the 'I didn't make that point' card, or you say that what you said actually meant something completely different that no one could reasonably interpet as such.
Click to expand...
TBf here i was using a term wrongly due to me confusing meanings, so some confusion probably came from that

And i am not sure how one could interpret what i said in a way that what i actually said is impossoble to decipher......could you give me an example?

XXBenShapiroXx said:
At the same time you don't give any of our points the same favorability, on the rare times you actually engage them.
Click to expand...
......again, can you give an example? I honestly don't see how i am not engaging with them

XXBenShapiroXx said:
Tien deflected a Kamehameha with a Kiai, which we know for a fact is just AP.

Not a supernatural hax. You need to provide evidence for that claim instead of dodging that burden and passing it onto us, which you have a history of doing.
Click to expand...
I am not passing anything.....i provided evidence by showing how it just being AP contradicts both the stated in question and gets circular scalling as Tien would be scalling above the AP of Goku himself in a big way, as the statement would include Kamehamehas far stronger than Goku himself, not only the ones that scale to him

Vietthai96 said:
funny is, even if we goes the route Kiai is hax, it is still ki-based hax, and Ki is universal energy system, so hax come from this UES still scales to user physical stats, so Tien scales regardless
Click to expand...
That depends on the hax in question, attack deflection for example usually doesn't have much to do with AP for it to matter in the UES argument, and honestly even with that, the scale becomes circular as i pointed out

TheGodOfICE777 said:
The statement literally says it happens via kiai. There isn’t anymore elaboration than this because it’s simply that.
Click to expand...
......again, when have i said that it didn't happened via Kiai? Why are you implying i said it wasn't Kiai?

TheGodOfICE777 said:
You’re putting a hax twist on it which is just adding stuff to something that doesn’t exist.
Click to expand...
Roshi's statement nescecitates it being more given how Power is said by him to be a non factor for Tien.......i am not forcing anything, i am saying what the series is saying, which also would cover the clear circular scalling that happens if it is purely AP focused, as Tien scaling far above someone he is at the same time equal to makes no sense

TheGodOfICE777 said:
We can just agree to disagre, but it’s already accepted that kiai is an energy-based thing, and not some mystical hax. It is literally energy dispersion from outwards your body.
Click to expand...
......why it being energy means it cannot possibly be anything else as well tho?

Sure, we can agree to disagree
 
Omegabronic said:
Not really, it was me explaining my point further to you, i really don't see how it could imply you said it........specially when the message is right there showing exactly what you said


TBf here i was using a term wrongly due to me confusing meanings, so some confusion probably came from that

And i am not sure how one could interpret what i said in a way that what i actually said is impossoble to decipher......could you give me an example?


......again, can you give an example? I honestly don't see how i am not engaging with them


I am not passing anything.....i provided evidence by showing how it just being AP contradicts both the stated in question and gets circular scalling as Tien would be scalling above the AP of Goku himself in a big way, as the statement would include Kamehamehas far stronger than Goku himself, not only the ones that scale to him


That depends on the hax in question, attack deflection for example usually doesn't have much to do with AP for it to matter in the UES argument, and honestly even with that, the scale becomes circular as i pointed out


......again, when have i said that it didn't happened via Kiai? Why are you implying i said it wasn't Kiai?


Roshi's statement nescecitates it being more given how Power is said by him to be a non factor for Tien.......i am not forcing anything, i am saying what the series is saying, which also would cover the clear circular scalling that happens if it is purely AP focused, as Tien scaling far above someone he is at the same time equal to makes no sense


......why it being energy means it cannot possibly be anything else as well tho?

Sure, we can agree to disagree
Click to expand...
Sure, my example is this post where you do everything I described to a T. You weaseling your way out of responsibility from the pretty clear cut implications of your post by just saying 'not really, I was just explaining my point further to you, I don't see how you can interpet it that way', when I specifically spelled it out for you how it is unreasonable for me to interpet how you responded as entirely something different.

There is no way I could possibly interpet you not responding to me in the first line of your response as you actually just furthering a point that was hardly related to anything I said at all.

You don't want to take responsibility, nor do you want to try and be more clear, so 60% of every interaction is just you accusing us of not understanding you with bengin remarks and us wasting our time with semantics.

And I feel like I'm wasting my time here, because I knew exactly how you'd respond, and then you did.
 
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Also so far you haven't actually proven anything. We've made it clear there's no contradictions or circular scaling, as we have scans proving kiai is AP based. You so plainly are forcing things.

We have gone in circles. We provided evidence in way of scans (kiai is AP based), you ignore and repeat talking points we've already covered (circular scaling), before making some wild assertion as a possible different explanation without at all proving it (it being energy doesnt mean it couldn't possibly be something else).
 
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Omegabronic said:
Not really, it was me explaining my point further to you, i really don't see how it could imply you said it........specially when the message is right there showing exactly what you said


TBf here i was using a term wrongly due to me confusing meanings, so some confusion probably came from that

And i am not sure how one could interpret what i said in a way that what i actually said is impossoble to decipher......could you give me an example?


......again, can you give an example? I honestly don't see how i am not engaging with them


I am not passing anything.....i provided evidence by showing how it just being AP contradicts both the stated in question and gets circular scalling as Tien would be scalling above the AP of Goku himself in a big way, as the statement would include Kamehamehas far stronger than Goku himself, not only the ones that scale to him


That depends on the hax in question, attack deflection for example usually doesn't have much to do with AP for it to matter in the UES argument, and honestly even with that, the scale becomes circular as i pointed out


......again, when have i said that it didn't happened via Kiai? Why are you implying i said it wasn't Kiai?


Roshi's statement nescecitates it being more given how Power is said by him to be a non factor for Tien.......i am not forcing anything, i am saying what the series is saying, which also would cover the clear circular scalling that happens if it is purely AP focused, as Tien scaling far above someone he is at the same time equal to makes no sense


......why it being energy means it cannot possibly be anything else as well tho?

Sure, we can agree to disagree
Click to expand...
It’s because it’s literally just ki dispersion. If you think it’s hax you’re feel free to think that way I suppose. I’m just simply not gonna subscribe to it because I think that it lacks any solid basis, besides requiring some extrapolation. You can make a thread and get this accepted if you want, but kiai becoming some sort of hax probably won’t get accepted.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
It’s because it’s literally just ki dispersion.
Click to expand...
Clearly not just that for the Deflect techniwue Tien uses if it can repel other stronger or relative attacks easily like that, when 2 ki attacks colide, the stronger one just overpowers the other and when they are equal both powers cancel eachother out or go to a beam struggle, according to you Tien would simply be stronger than Goku's kamehameha/comparable........then why is the Kiai even nescesary? Why can't he just do it with his ki enhanced hands? Why is it said to be a Kamehameha specific counter if it could be used on all other physical attacks as well, given that "it is just AP"?

TheGodOfICE777 said:
but kiai becoming some sort of hax probably won’t get accepted.
Click to expand...
Kiai already is hax tho?
 
changing subject, since DBS Anime is now not considered Canon to the OG Manga continuity/DBS Manga continuity, and all counters/contradictions brought up for Infinite universe come from the DBS Anime, it should be valid to make the Universe from the OG Manga continuity/DBS Manga continuity infinite now, right?
 
Omegabronic said:
changing subject, since DBS Anime is now not considered Canon to the OG Manga continuity/DBS Manga continuity, and all counters/contradictions brought up for Infinite universe come from the DBS Anime, it should be valid to make the Universe from the OG Manga continuity/DBS Manga continuity infinite now, right?
Click to expand...
Probably yeah, this would also upgrade the Super manga right?
 
Spinoirr said:
Probably yeah, this would also upgrade the Super manga right?
Click to expand...
yeah, makes their afterlife straight up universal without any real counters to it.......altho, i don't know if we scale someone to the entire universe in size for speed tho
 
Is it DB Manga/DBS Manga, DBZ Kai/DBS Anime, DBZ Toei/Movies/GT now as the continuities?

I'm not up to date.
 
Quantu said:
Is it DB Manga/DBS Manga, DBZ Kai/DBS Anime, DBZ Toei/Movies/GT now as the continuities?

I'm not up to date.
Click to expand...
Yes:
vsbattles.com

To be canon or not to be that is the question.A Dragon ball Super revision

Well hello everyone I am back with another crt the objective of this crt would be to prove why DBZ Kai is canon to DBS anime First let me lay some base for the argument in Dragon ball Super we can see them using flash backs from the anime for some scenes in super 1)In Dragon ball super...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Omegabronic said:
Clearly not just that for the Deflect techniwue Tien uses if it can repel other stronger or relative attacks easily like that, when 2 ki attacks colide, the stronger one just overpowers the other and when they are equal both powers cancel eachother out or go to a beam struggle, according to you Tien would simply be stronger than Goku's kamehameha/comparable........then why is the Kiai even nescesary? Why can't he just do it with his ki enhanced hands? Why is it said to be a Kamehameha specific counter if it could be used on all other physical attacks as well, given that "it is just AP"?


Kiai already is hax tho?
Click to expand...
The way he deflects it is stated to be via using a kiai. Which is merely just raw energy output being dispersed from the body.

It isn’t? It’s just accepted to be able to cancel out and deflect weaker attacks.
 
Omegabronic said:
changing subject, since DBS Anime is now not considered Canon to the OG Manga continuity/DBS Manga continuity, and all counters/contradictions brought up for Infinite universe come from the DBS Anime, it should be valid to make the Universe from the OG Manga continuity/DBS Manga continuity infinite now, right?
Click to expand...
Yeah, someone should do it.

It probably gonna take 10 pages bare minimum to get it accepted
 
We really arguing kiai is hax now?
oV3VJ9X4oXbMU3Xp.jpg
 
random post

Goku and Yujiro are the baddest mofos when it comes to a NON hax H2H fight (ignoring comics), just wanna share some of my thoughts.

First things first: How I treat such a thing - from best to worst.

1. statements + stats gap + visuals + physicals >
2. statements + visuals + stats gap >
3. statements + stats gap>
4. statements >

Side note: With visuals i mean some displayed skill feats like Goku countering Vegetas armbar with a counter roll, Judo throw against Broly, a grasp of what distance is and how to use it or Yujiro showing some grappling. I dont want perfect or many showings. For the first one, verses like kengan, fots, goh, naruto, baki etc. are easier to grasp and give the illusion of being more "skilled" since said martial arts look more spectacular and effective. But some verses like DB req good eyes which some of us learned the hard way in some hardcore-martial arts based russian servers. And solely sticking to that doesnt really tell the full story. Just some showings which supports said statements. Not too many and they dont have to be perfect.

The most important things in such a battle are the character, statements, physicals and the stats gap your fighter has been in. Im ignoring predicition feats since many of them - well at least for me - are in the same tier. What sepperates them is the context/circumstances and I hate to say it but Gokus killer feat makes everything unfair.

Character: Goku views fighting more like a sport and he treats like a friendly sparring match and wants to get the best out of his oponnents. Goku is pretty much the perfect sparring partner in real world terms and every single person wants a guy like Goku, haha.

Yujiro is much more the "John Wick" - type of fighter. You see Yujiro acing like Jiren but it has more to do with Yujiro knowing that hes the most powerful and skilled guy and he does know when to stop playing with the food.

Statements: Yujiro is such a monster. He has the statements and fully understand the mechanics of most/all (its the latter) techniques. Thats such an incredible rare combo, thats whay I got him @Gokus tier.

Goku: Some guys with the reading comprehension skills of Majin Buu think they are smart with using Grandpa Gohans wording as a counter argument. Lets keep it short: We do know that some martial arts in Dragonball have a higher belt system compared to the real world, which could mean just one thing: Traditional martial arts in Dragonball are much more cracked than in the real world. A black belt mundials grappling event is one of the best things in the real world, but in the world of Dragonball it would be a few levels below.

Even if you dont accept it for whatever reasons, Goku has reached Grandpa Gohans level 30 years ago and trains right now with literal gods. Achieved the "pinnacle of fighting" or better known as UI. And im even ignroing that "KI" is more prestigious and harder to learn which is 1 level above traditional martial arts.

So yeah, hes in the same ballpark as Yujiro when it comes to traditional martial arts.

Physicals: If we go just visual then Gokus size of biceps, waits, chest, thigh and big ass neck - puts him in the 200+ pounds range EASILY. But lets ignor visuals and stick to statements.
Physicals in a stats equal match are often "wanked" due them not knowing and fully understanding the science behind that and how humans body works. Or ignoring that your strenght, stamina etc are equal. It works for Yujiro since he got the statements which gives him a strong base and the character to fully abuse its advantages. The only way to be even with him is to match Yujiro in size, statements and character. The only way to BEAT him in brutal fashion is if you are smaller, got the statements and character.

Stats gap:
Outskilling more powerful guys is cool. But thats just one part of the coin. The other part is the powersystem and while Dragonballs system is super easy to grasp, its so unfair. Thats one of the thirst things ive learned when I was reading/watching Dragonball. Have any of you ever played "Diablo"? Diablos talent tree is massive! Now imagin duelling someone in Diablo who "maxd out" every little thing all the way up to the powerful things? Being more powerful means exactly that in Dragonball. 9/10 of verses arent like that - they are more "complex" and not as unfair as DB. In the context of DB, it means you are a straight up omnipotent being, lmao ... just some food for you.

Long story short, Goku already fought a bigger/ more powerful and imo just as talented version of Yujiro: Anime Broly. DBS Broly is Saitama/Garou but on crack. There are other feats in the manga/anime but this is hands down the best feat in the entire DB franchise. Oh and its an insane feat for Broly which debunks him being "just a meathead brawler" since he does share some aspects of a martial artist guy.

The fight:
Even in statements, both have supporting visuals, Yujiro got the advantage character-wise while Goku in stats gap. The keyword is "character". Gokus character is the main reason why its an even fight at the beginning and Yujiro winning some rounds here and there. Goku would enjoy it and start a small talk with him. Goku mid/high diffs him by the end but like I said, adult Goku views it more like a sport which could bring him in some stupid situations against Yujiro but he still got this 6/10.

Adult Goku with OG Gokus character? He works Yujiros body right from the start and destroys his gas tank in brutall fashion.

TL;DR Yujiro respects Gokus hands.
hq720.jpg
 
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