Dragon Ball MWI undoing continuation thread

[omegabronic]

Continuation of this thread

Now that the mutiverses have been separated, now we deal with the consequences of it

1 What remains shared​

Now that the current justification for full shared cosmology is not valid anymore, is there anything that would still be valid for both continuities?

2 Size of the realms​

Now that the current justification is gone, the afterlife, which has no stated size inverse would go to being inquantifiable in size, unless there is anything about the size of it that is said for us to use, like for example the afterlife, important for calculations, important for the speed of the BoG feat for a calculation and possibly AP if we conclude the feat is back to 3-A, which it was prior to the Universe becoming 2-C

Edit1: The afterlife is supposedly called "the cosmos" which can mean universe, but some problems with it is how this term is seemingly used differently than the term universe and how the kanji used for it in japanese does not even mean"cosmos" at all with this all, i think we can have a disagree and agree section already for this manner

Agree with Afterlife being a universe: LordGriffin1000 (agrees with a "likely" rating)

Disagree with Afterlife being a universe: Damage3245 Maverick_Zero_X Chariot190

Neutral with Afterlife being a universe: DarkDragonMedeus (says that he agrees with it being universe sized and thus with it being 2-C, but has not commented on the up above scan)

i could be forgetting some other thing that would be important to cover as well, if there is a point i am forgetting that is also affected by the separation feel free to point out

with all that out of the way let's discuss

Edit2: Here is a summary of the main points of each side

Edit3: Here is the summary of a new point that popped up

Edit4: Due to further discussion and summaries, i think we can finally have a definitive voting section, so here:

Agree with Afterlife being a universe: LordGriffin1000 (agrees with a "likely" rating based on the Cosmos scan) DarkDragonMedeus LephyrTheRevanchist

Disagree with Afterlife being a universe: Damage3245 Maverick_Zero_X Chariot190 Flashlight237

Neutral with Afterlife being a universe: KingTempest

 

[omegabronic]

and i pressed enter too early.......damn, i just realized not enough time has passed for the last CRT...........

 

[Ednaxel2]

Sorry if this seems too long, didn't expect it to be this much

2 Size of the realms​

Now that the current justification is gone, the afterlife, which has no stated size inverse would go to being inquantifiable in size, unless there is anything about the size of it that is said for us to use, like for example the afterlife, important for calculations, important for the speed of the BoG feat for a calculation and possibly AP if we conclude the feat is back to 3-A, which it was prior to the Universe becoming 2-C

Cosmology​

There is the fact that the afterlife is reffered to a couple times in the daizenshuu as "the cosmos" which means universe straight up

Which is enough to qualify it as a Low 2-C realm based on this wikis standards

The RoSaT has a couple statements about it being a world with its own time axis different from the real world, and is an earth sized realm as well.

As DDM said in the last thread, this is enough for it to count as its own Low 2-C structure but only IF another thread regarding this logic gets accepted, so we'd have to see the result of that first

So overall the macrocosm should be 2 Universes (Living World and Afterlife) or 3 Universes if the latter RoSaT logic gets accepted (Living World, Afterlife, and the RoSaT)

Calculation​

The currently accepted calculation uses the universe's diameter, and the radius of the Afterlife/Kaioshin Realm. From before we clarified the afterlife is its own universal realm. The Kaioshin Realm is 1/10th the size of both the Living World and Afterlife
Living World: 8.8e+27 m (Diameter of the Universe)
Afterlife: 8.8e+27 m (Diameter of the Universe) / 2 = 4.4e+27 m (Radius of the Universe)
Kaioshin Realm: 8.8e+27 m + 8.8e+27 m = 1.76e+28 m (Diamerter of both Living World and Afterlife) / 10 = 1.76e+27 m (Diameter of the Kaioshin Realm) / 2 = 8.8e+26 m (Radius of the Kaioshin Realm)

8.8e+27 m + 4.4e+27 m + 8.8e+26 m = 1.408e+28 m (Macrocosmic distance travelled) / 30s (Estimated time of the feat) = 4.69333333 × 10^26 m/s, or 1.565527485685 quintillion c (Massively FTL+)

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Also, to clarify the afterlife has to be Universe sized bare minimum for being stated to be as Ednaxel stated above of Cosmos. This reasoning was already accepted on my blog a while ago. So, afterlife is as already accepted to be atleast universe sized. The Kaioshin realm would now be 1/10th of the living and afterlife though. So, unfortunately due to kaioshin realm now only being 1/5th the size of a universe they’d now scale to 2 universe sized space-time continuums instead of the original 3. Due to kaioshin realm being 5x smaller than the universe. We also still have space-time separation via distinct time dimensions as Ednaxel outlined above.

 

[omegabronic]

Sorry if this seems too long, didn't expect it to be this much

Cosmology​

There is the fact that the afterlife is reffered to a couple times in the daizenshuu as "the cosmos" which means universe straight up

Which is enough to qualify it as a Low 2-C realm based on this wikis standards

if it is called a universe of its own it would qualify, i find it weird that they use the term "universe" separated from "cosmos" in separation from the literal universe meaning, but i am not going to affirm that just now, what i find it weird is that when looking at the japanese kanji used for the term int he scans it doesn't read "cosmos" but "the heavens/skies/celestial sphere"

before me fully agreeing on this, a translator's help would be needed

The RoSaT has a couple statements about it being a world with its own time axis different from the real world, and is an earth sized realm as well.

As DDM said in the last thread, this is enough for it to count as its own Low 2-C structure but only IF another thread regarding this logic gets accepted, so we'd have to see the result of that first

So overall the macrocosm should be 2 Universes (Living World and Afterlife) or 3 Universes if the latter RoSaT logic gets accepted (Living World, Afterlife, and the RoSaT)

yeah, we would need a thread on that to pass first, so let's us go with the 2 universes for now

Calculation​

The currently accepted calculation uses the universe's diameter, and the radius of the Afterlife/Kaioshin Realm. From before we clarified the afterlife is its own universal realm. The Kaioshin Realm is 1/10th the size of both the Living World and Afterlife
Living World: 8.8e+27 m (Diameter of the Universe)
Afterlife: 8.8e+27 m (Diameter of the Universe) / 2 = 4.4e+27 m (Radius of the Universe)
Kaioshin Realm: 8.8e+27 m + 8.8e+27 m = 1.76e+28 m (Diamerter of both Living World and Afterlife) / 10 = 1.76e+27 m (Diameter of the Kaioshin Realm) / 2 = 8.8e+26 m (Radius of the Kaioshin Realm)

8.8e+27 m + 4.4e+27 m + 8.8e+26 m = 1.408e+28 m (Macrocosmic distance travelled) / 30s (Estimated time of the feat) = 4.69333333 × 10^26 m/s, or 1.565527485685 quintillion c (Massively FTL+)

that's weird, it is somehow a higher result than when the universe was bigger when we still used the macrocosm map to calc the sizes......i will calc this myself later, let's focus on the statements regarding cosmology for now

 

[omegabronic]

Also, to clarify the afterlife has to be Universe sized bare minimum for being stated to be as Ednaxel stated above of Cosmos. This reasoning was already accepted on my blog a while ago. So, afterlife is as already accepted to be atleast universe sized. The Kaioshin realm would now be 1/10th of the living and afterlife though. So, unfortunately due to kaioshin realm now only being 1/5th the size of a universe they’d now scale to 2 universe sized space-time continuums instead of the original 3. Due to kaioshin realm being 5x smaller than the universe.

was it? can you show me the thread that accepted that, can't believe i somehow let that pass

We also still have space-time separation via distinct time dimensions as Ednaxel outlined above.

for the ROSAT yeah, what about the others?

 

[Ednaxel2]

yeah, we would need a thread on that to pass first, so let's us go with the 2 universes for now

Hopefully it won't take long for a conclusion

that's weird, it is somehow a higher result than when the universe was bigger when we still used the macrocosm map to calc the sizes......i will calc this myself later, let's focus on the statements regarding cosmology for now

Could be due to some factors but idk, that's the math I got

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Just gonna ask this before anything else, was the latest CRT implimnted? Since it seemed like the staff either all agreed or was neutral (DDM)

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

My issue with afterlife scan is "cosmos" is differentiated from "universe"

Spoiler: example 1

Spoiler: example 2

So I'm thinking it has more of the spiritual meaning or definition rather than the universe as we know it. (Also doesn't help that the afterlife is vastly different from our traditional universe we see)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Also, to clarify the afterlife has to be Universe sized bare minimum for being stated to be as Ednaxel stated above of Cosmos. This reasoning was already accepted on my blog a while ago. So, afterlife is as already accepted to be atleast universe sized. The Kaioshin realm would now be 1/10th of the living and afterlife though. So, unfortunately due to kaioshin realm now only being 1/5th the size of a universe they’d now scale to 2 universe sized space-time continuums instead of the original 3. Due to kaioshin realm being 5x smaller than the universe. We also still have space-time separation via distinct time dimensions as Ednaxel outlined above.

I should also mention that there are two mentions of the sky being called the size of the Universe, being the daizenshuu which only has material from the anime and the chouzenshuu that was shown to continue there without mention of anime, but with images from the manga itself


I have this mention in Spanish, but the same thing is said when translating into English.

Heaven
(L) Beyond.
(C) World where the souls of good people live.
(1) Goku trained here for the 25th Tenkaichi Budôkai.
(A) The souls of the good people that the great King Enma separated gather here. It's a place as vast as the universe and its entire surface is a field of flowers.



Chouzenshuu is a complete guide, which contains stuff from super, it is an updated version of the guide that contains stuff from Akira Toriyama and contains an interview with him, was his name in the guide itself, from Shueisha and Toei

 

[LordDestroit10K]

was it? can you show me the thread that accepted that, can't believe i somehow let that pass


for the ROSAT yeah, what about the others?

It’s stated that Afterlife and Living World are totally separed by a non physical wall, and you can’t cross between both of them by normal methods. So…

 

[Nullflowerblush]

"without mention of anime"

Heaven
(L) Beyond.
(C) World where the souls of good people live.
(1) Goku trained here for the 25th Tenkaichi Budôkai.
(A) The souls of the good people that the great King Enma separated gather here. It's a place as vast as the universe and its entire surface is a field of flowers.

 

[MrTayman616]

It’s stated that Afterlife and Living World are totally separed by a non physical wall, and you can’t cross between both of them by normal methods. So…

can't ki bypass it? at the very least it should be able to bypass it when its strong enough like how buuhan effects the wall between dimensions.

also... can you please tell me what was the reason for saying destroying the universe 7 is 2-C?

 

[LordDestroit10K]

can't ki bypass it? at the very least it should be able to bypass it when its strong enough like how buuhan effects the wall between dimensions.

also... can you please tell me what was the reason for saying destroying the universe 7 is 2-C?

Energy is a scalar magnitude, dimensions are vector magnitudes; so energy (KI), by not having dimensions, can bypass it without problems, as long as it has a 4D attack potency.

Universe 7 is considered 2-C because it consists of 3 continuum space-time, namely the living world, the afterlife and the Kaioshin realm.

 

[omegabronic]

Just gonna ask this before anything else, was the latest CRT implimnted? Since it seemed like the staff either all agreed or was neutral (DDM)

this thread is to discuss what would be implemented due to the result of the last CRT, as a way to sort things out on the changes

 

[MrTayman616]

Energy is a scalar magnitude, dimensions are vector magnitudes; so energy (KI), by not having dimensions, can bypass it without problems, as long as it has a 4D attack potency.

Universe 7 is considered 2-C because it consists of 3 continuum space-time, namely the living world, the afterlife and the Kaioshin realm.

no i mean. why did we called afterlife a different space time. i just dont remember that part.

 

[omegabronic]

It’s stated that Afterlife and Living World are totally separed by a non physical wall, and you can’t cross between both of them by normal methods. So…

that only means they are different dimensions from one.........which, duh, no one can ever prove otherwise on that without leaps

I should also mention that there are two mentions of the sky being called the size of the Universe, being the daizenshuu which only has material from the anime and the chouzenshuu that was shown to continue there without mention of anime, but with images from the manga itself


I have this mention in Spanish, but the same thing is said when translating into English.

Heaven
(L) Beyond.
(C) World where the souls of good people live.
(1) Goku trained here for the 25th Tenkaichi Budôkai.
(A) The souls of the good people that the great King Enma separated gather here. It's a place as vast as the universe and its entire surface is a field of flowers.



Chouzenshuu is a complete guide, which contains stuff from super, it is an updated version of the guide that contains stuff from Akira Toriyama and contains an interview with him, was his name in the guide itself, from Shueisha and Toei

as noted by @Nullflowerblush, these do specificy the anime

 

[omegabronic]

Energy is a scalar magnitude, dimensions are vector magnitudes; so energy (KI), by not having dimensions, can bypass it without problems, as long as it has a 4D attack potency.

Universe 7 is considered 2-C because it consists of 3 continuum space-time, namely the living world, the afterlife and the Kaioshin realm.

what do we have to comfirm them as space times without Toei anime statements again? and being space times doesn't matter much if they are not universal in size with the current standards

 

[MrTayman616]

what do we have to comfirm them as space times without Toei anime statements again? and being space times doesn't matter much if they are not universal in size with the current standards

afterlife has the statements of being as wide as the universe and kaioshin realm is 1/10 of the macrocosm.

but them being space times... i don't think so

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Kaioshin realm

I thought it was only one-fifth the size of a universe?

 

[LordDestroit10K]

no i mean. why did we called afterlife a different space time. i just dont remember that part.

what do we have to comfirm them as space times without Toei anime statements again? and being space times doesn't matter much if they are not universal in size with the current standards

Afterlife is called “cosmos” in Dragon Ball Landmark, an official guide to the manga made by Akira Toriyama and published by Shueisha/Bird Studios, and “cosmos” according to the standards of this wiki qualifies for a universal size. Now, according to this wiki for two universes to be space-temporally separated, the conventional travel between the two shouldn’t be possible, and there must be a separation by a non-physical wall, which is fulfilled in Dragon Ball from what I said before. To go to Afterlife from Living World, and viceversa, you must use Instant Transmission, a travel method that circumvents the distance between two points, and that is not a conventional travel…

 

[MrTayman616]

Afterlife is called “cosmos” in Dragon Ball Landmark, an official guide to the manga made by Akira Toriyama and published by Shueisha/Bird Studios, and “cosmos” according to the standards of this wiki qualifies for a universal size. Now, according to this wiki for two universes to be space-temporally separated, the conventional travel between the two shouldn’t be possible, and there must be a separation by a non-physical wall, which is fulfilled in Dragon Ball from what I said before. To go to Afterlife from Living World, and viceversa, you must use Instant Transmission, a travel method that circumvents the distance between two points, and that is not a conventional travel…

uh... as far as i remember. its the kaioshin realm that requires instant transmission. afterlife has different circumstances.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Dragon Ball Landmark, an official guide to the manga made by Akira Toriyama and published by Shueisha/Bird Studios

only for twenty nine ninety nine

 

[LordDestroit10K]

I thought it was only one-fifth the size of a universe?

Kaioshin Realm: 1/10 of Afterlife + Living World ( Outside space + Demon Realm)

 

[LordDestroit10K]

uh... as far as i remember. its the kaioshin realm that requires instant transmission. afterlife has different circumstances.

It’s stated on Chozenshuu 4 my guy

 

[Nullflowerblush]

“cosmos” according to the standards of this wiki qualifies for a universal size

(1) What standards?
(2) "天界" (Tenkai) is "the heavens; the skies; celestial sphere"; the individual kanji (ten + sakai) are "heaven" and "world"/"kingdom"/"boundary". You are thinking of 宇宙 (Uchū).

Kaioshin Realm: 1/10 of Afterlife + Living World ( Outside space + Demon Realm)

The Outside Space? The series of dimensional rifts Majin Buu created?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

In fact, all of Dragon Ball's dimensions are separated by dimensional barriers and dimensional barriers ² which are the space time of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball would be fine without the mention of toei.

 

[MrTayman616]

It’s stated on Chozenshuu 4 my guy

if its fine, can you send it please?

 

[LordDestroit10K]

(1) What standards?
(2) "天界" (Tenkai) is "the heavens; the skies; celestial sphere"; the individual kanji (ten + sakai) are "heaven" and "world"/"kingdom"/"boundary". You are thinking of 宇宙 (Uchū).

The Outside Space? The series of dimensional rifts Majin Buu created?

The cosmos…

And Outside space it’s where planets, stars, galaxies, etc, are…

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Did you even read the post?
And be honest.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

And Outside space it’s where planets, stars, galaxies, etc, are…

Oh, right, you're still reading off the map. You're just talking about the universe universe.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

uh... as far as i remember. its the kaioshin realm that requires instant transmission. afterlife has different circumstances.

Teleportation is also required to go or special methods, otherwise it is impossible to go to the other world without dimensional travel or teleportation, but it is possible to go to that realm automatically when you die, once you die you automatically teleported to the other world

 

[Ednaxel2]

Kaioshin Realm: 1/10 of Afterlife + Living World ( Outside space + Demon Realm)

It's mostly like: (contents of the macrocosm) / 10

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Kaioshin Realm: 1/10 of Afterlife + Living World ( Outside space + Demon Realm)

8.8e+26 m (the diameter of the observable universe) * 3 (the Universe, the Demon Realm which is never confirmed as universal in size and is even referred to as a small "hideout" by Toriyama, and the Other World) / 10 (the difference between the Realm of the Kai and the greater macrocosm) = 2.64e+26 m, which is close, but not quite the same of a universe.

 

[LordDestroit10K]

8.8e+26 m (the diameter of the observable universe) * 3 (the Universe, the Demon Realm which is never confirmed as universal in size and is even referred to as a small "hideout" by Toriyama, and the Other World) / 10 (the difference between the Realm of the Kai and the greater macrocosm) = 2.64e+26 m, which is close, but not quite the same of a universe.

Of course, but the universe is infinite or at least infinitely expansive, there are countless galaxies, countless nebulae that contain solar systems, countless planets… Honestly, using the established value of the observable universe seems inconsistent to me. Maybe?

 

[omegabronic]

afterlife has the statements of being as wide as the universe

which from what we could see, are only ever said in relation to the toei continuity version, now there that "cosmos" statement, but that is weird for a whole lot of reasons

and kaioshin realm is 1/10 of the macrocosm.

but them being space times... i don't think so

huh, well in that case the macrocosm wouldn't be 2-C but only Low 2-C

Afterlife is called “cosmos” in Dragon Ball Landmark, an official guide to the manga made by Akira Toriyama and published by Shueisha/Bird Studios, and “cosmos” according to the standards of this wiki qualifies for a universal size.

which as covered above is....weird for some reasons

Now, according to this wiki for two universes to be space-temporally separated, the conventional travel between the two shouldn’t be possible, and there must be a separation by a non-physical wall, which is fulfilled in Dragon Ball from what I said before. To go to Afterlife from Living World, and viceversa, you must use Instant Transmission, a travel method that circumvents the distance between two points, and that is not a conventional travel…

that is for them to not be contradictory to being space times yes, but what you just said works exactly the same for dimensions separated only be space and not time, not every other dimension is a different space time after all

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Oh, we're doing the infinite universe thing? Hm.

The currently accepted calculation uses the universe's diameter, and the radius of the Afterlife/Kaioshin Realm. From before we clarified the afterlife is its own universal realm. The Kaioshin Realm is 1/10th the size of both the Living World and Afterlife
Living World: 8.8e+27 m (Diameter of the Universe)
Afterlife: 8.8e+27 m (Diameter of the Universe) / 2 = 4.4e+27 m (Radius of the Universe)
Kaioshin Realm: 8.8e+27 m + 8.8e+27 m = 1.76e+28 m (Diamerter of both Living World and Afterlife) / 10 = 1.76e+27 m (Diameter of the Kaioshin Realm) / 2 = 8.8e+26 m (Radius of the Kaioshin Realm)

8.8e+27 m + 4.4e+27 m + 8.8e+26 m = 1.408e+28 m (Macrocosmic distance travelled) / 30s (Estimated time of the feat) = 4.69333333 × 10^26 m/s, or 1.565527485685 quintillion c (Massively FTL+)

What's all this about, then?

 

[LordDestroit10K]

which from what we could see, are only ever said in relation to the toei continuity version, now there that "cosmos" statement, but that is weird for a whole lot of reasons


huh, well in that case the macrocosm wouldn't be 2-C but only Low 2-C

Why? Afterlife + Living World makes 2 continuum space-time. So macrocosm still 2-C

 

[omegabronic]

Of course, but the universe is infinite or at least infinitely expansive, there are countless galaxies, countless nebulae that contain solar systems, countless planets… Honestly, using the established value of the observable universe seems inconsistent to me. Maybe?

that was rejected fairly recently

 

[LordDestroit10K]

Oh, we're doing the infinite universe thing? Hm.

What's all this about, then?

“At least infinitely expansive”. By the way, that’s not my point. I only explained why Universe 7 is considered at this moment 2-C…