Dragon Ball Heroes Infinite Speed Revision

[TheUnshakableOne]

Ah okay. I was getting them confused. But my other question remains.. why doesn't anyone get speed blitzed right away when someone shows up to foil their plans? They should be fighting til death...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kepekley. Hit's time skip has a stated timeframe of 0.5 seconds, when he's using it in the U6 Tournament.

Sometimes his Timeskip isn't even enough for him to cross the entire arena, only looking like he is teleporting where Goku is, about to punch for the first time.

This isn't on-screen speed. It is an objective Subsonic feat. It is a low-end, but it cannot be denied. We have a stated timeframe and an observable distance.

 

[Kaltias]

Which is the same as Xeno Goku moving infinitely slower?

It's a low end

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm glad you asked!

Hit's time skip is a low-end because people have been faster since the first arc of Classic DB.

Xeno Goku being scaled to Infinite Speed is the outlier, because it's contradicted by every single other scene of him and any other character fighting, flying, or moving in Heroes.

 

[Kepekley23]

It's objectively irrelevant to anything in the thread. Going by this logic, lightning bolts in Avatar are a fraction of Mach 1 because the rain in the background is falling in real time when Iroh redirects one. It absolutely doesn't work like that here, never will. We ignore that because of a basic concept.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nope. In that case it's a clear example of oversight from the writers, and the keeping of a rainy background for rule of cool.

In Hit's case, it's a speed feat with an objective timeframe and observable distance.

The two are not comparable.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Matt

"Xeno Goku being scaled to Infinite Speed is the outlier, because it's contradicted by every single other scene of him and any other character fighting, flying, or moving in Heroes."

What fights against what characters?

I'll repeat what I said, fiction does not consider Infinite speed the same as we do (Most don't even consider it a feat to begin with). You cannot use "they do not fly at infinite speed" as an argument.

 

[Kaltias]

But that's objectively no different from the Dark Area Digimons?

Calc every quantifiable speed feat of DemiDevimon that you come across, it won't be infinite for very obvious reasons

But DemiDevimon's speed is fine because inhabiting a timeless void is infinite speed

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Ever

So we are literally at a point where we are picking and choosing feats? I cannot shown a scene where the character isn't moving at Infinite Speed as a point against you?

Are feats literally meaningless now?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Xeno Goku has only ever fought against Demon Gods and/or Demon God enhanced enemies

 

[The_Everlasting]

"I cannot shown a scene where the character isn't moving at Infinite Speed as a point against you?"

So, literally and I do mean literally every other scene the character is in?

 

[Kepekley23]

Nope. It's an example of fiction not caring about the difference between real time and CT. I genuinely can't believe you're trying to use this argument when we've been over this dozens of times already.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes?

He doesn't move with Infinite Speeds, so he most like isn't.

 

[Schnee_One]

What even is this?

 

[PaChi2]

Okay.

Can I give input?

Infinite speed demons is fine according to the description. However, scaling goku and co to them seems flawed because we dont scale random people to DA digimon (unless now that's a thing lol, the adventure cast isnt infinite for tagging Devimon/LadyDevimon/Myotismon/etc). It seems that scaling Goku to the demons is not correct if we follow the same logic applied to digimon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nope. It's an example of fiction not caring about the difference between real time and CT. I genuinely can't believe you're trying to use this argument when we've been over this dozens of times already.

So calcs are useless? Hit has a stated timeframe of 0.5 seconds for his Time Stop, and he only crosses the width of the arena and hits Goku once in this stated timeframe.

Please explain how this is not Subsonic.

 

[Kepekley23]

So, I think we should make a CRT to downgrade everyone in Super.

Zamasu got hit square in the head by a bullet, and got tagged by normal explosive gas. Which is more consistent with Hit's "Subsonic" feat, and also consistent with everyone being Subsonic on-screen.

How about it?

 

[Sera_EX]

PaChi has the right idea.

Plus, there's already been given examples of infinite speed characters getting tagged by non-infinites who don't scale. Goku is not special.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Xeno Goku has only ever fought these characters though.

 

[Bluetrekking]

At least we have agreed on infinite speed for the Demon Gods.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Kepe

No he didn't...Black did ovo

 

[Kaltias]

Okay.

Can I give input?

Infinite speed demons is fine according to the description. However, scaling goku and co to them seems flawed because we dont scale random people to DA digimon (unless now that's a thing lol, the adventure cast isnt infinite for tagging Devimon/LadyDevimon/Myotismon/etc). It seems that scaling Goku to the demons is not correct if we follow the same logic applied to digimon.

I mean:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Alphamon?oldid=1337945

^ That's infinite speed and it's based on tagging someone infinite in speed

 

[Kepekley23]

https://streamable.com/e1sjd

Quick calc here.

Mai was calc'ed to be about 27m away from Zamasu. Average rifle is about 1,200m/s

(27m)/(1200m/s) = 22.5 milliseconds

Zamasu should be downgraded

 

[Huesito88]

Zamasu is Black =P

 

[Bluetrekking]

Agree: 25 (Gargoyle, Ever, Knight, Ryukama, Glass, Kep, Riki, Dieno, Amexim, Dragon, Ryu, Asnav, Julian, Zenkai, Rapid, Hrish, Quantu, Ultima, Kaltias, DMB, Pachi (Demon Gods only), Hst, Straika, Dark649, Frantzy)

Disagree: 3 (TheUpgrademan, Matt, Fire)

Neutral: 6 (Seed, Cal, Sera, Dodo, Velox, Js)

I believe I got everybody

 

[PaChi2]

@Kal

His first key is FTL.

His first key isnt scaled to any infinite speed guy, and unless you want to convince me that myotismon can fodderize Alphamon in the show, my point stands.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For the record, I won't leave an actual vote here. Too much controversy from either side. Imply what side I'm leaning on all you want, but don't count me towards the democracy. I will just say what comes to mind.

On the assumption that Demons scale but not Xeno!Goku, what about people like the Future Warriors, TP!Trunks, TB!Bardock, and Chronoa?

 

[Sera_EX]

I don't agree or disagree either. But that doesn't change the fact that I stand by what I said regarding Goku scaling. Hell, if Goku ends up scaling than I'm gonna have a Field Day, trust me.

 

[Kaltias]

@Kal

His first key is FTL.

His first key isnt scaled to any infinite speed guy, and unless you want to convince me that myotismon can fodderize Alphamon in the show, my point stands.

I know? He was also 3-A scaling upwards from a bunch of Low 2-Cs. Regardless, the point was that "infinite speed isn't scaleable" isn't true

I don't understand what do you mean

 

[PaChi2]

@Kal

If infinite speed was scaleable and that alone were enough, every Alphamon key would be infinite. Alphamon isnt infinite just via scaling.

 

[DodoNova2]

Neutral, I will see how it evolves

 

[Straika]

I personally agree with the revision!

 

[PaChi2]

For the record,

Leo Aiolia can tag Cronus' infinite attack speed.

He doesnt scale, obviously.

 

[DMB_1]

In his first appearance, the first thing Xeno Goku fights is Giant form Demira. And he does it in base form. After that, he only fights people who are stronger than him.

I don't understand why Xeno Goku scaling to Demigra in speed would be an outlier.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Xeno Goku '''has''' to scale. Half of these characters are fodder compared to Xeno Goku's full power. He even blitzed Demigra and intercepted one of his attacks on his first appearance.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@SSGJ. To be fair, not necessarily. Again, using Digimon, DemiDevimon is infinite speed and fodder to low tier, beginning of series Digimon.

 

[PaChi2]

Xeno Goku has to scale. Half of these characters are fodder compared to Xeno Goku's full power. He even blitzed Demigra and intercepted one of his attacks on his first appearance.

That's irrelevant.

Myotismo is fodder to WarGreymo and you dont see wargreymon scaled to him (ignore that last key lol).

Powerlevels are irrelevant when it comes to speed.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why is this still going on? Not only does it not make sense for the realm to give everyone inf speed by default but that would also mean that Goku lives in a time stop. U know the other people, like LITERALLY everyone that doesn't have infinite speed? Yeah goku would see them in a time stop for the rest of his time, not only that, but it would always be the same time of day and same date for the rest of his life, which is NOT true. (ps im actually waiting for someone to say, "he can slow down" to start laughing my brains out)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Leo Aiolia can tag Cronus' infinite attack speed.

He doesnt scale, obviously.

Yup. This did happen. But I consider it an outlier.

 

[Kepekley23]

For the record,

Leo Aiolia can tag Cronus' infinite attack speed.

He doesnt scale, obviously.

That is because the feat is a massive outlier, not because we don't powerscale infinite and immeasurable speeds. We obviously do. Lucemon gets upgrades by doing absolutely nothing for a reason.