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Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse - Downgrade about statistics
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
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If the DDBs only grant the users the ability to open portals to time travel I don't really see why this should grant them immeasurable speed. This kind of flies in the face of immeasurable speed if they have to rely on a completely different power to time travel in the first place.
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I think the current argument is that the DDBs' flight speed shouldn't scale to anyone's combat speed, since DDBs don't give the user portals and were stated to have flown to other time periods
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Basically yes.
Coz apparentely the wiki treats this kind of time travel feats like this.
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@Adem_Warlock69 there's also my question above with the chronoa scene as she's going through another dimension in order to time travel in the first place, which again doesn't really solidify immeasurable speed here.
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I'll respond here tomorrow regarding the combat/flight speed and the Chronoa stuff when I got the time
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How would it not? Genuinely curious because I've been following the thread and this argument hasn't been explained.
TheGreatJedi13
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because that would be the nature of the dimension rather than herself. This is the same reason why Blazblue was downgraded from Immeasurable speed because of the nature of the boundary rather than the character themselves
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And what exactly is the nature of the Time Rift that allows characters to do immeasurable speed feats? Is it stated somewhere it grants you access to places they normally can't go?
Guacamolefletcher
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If they have immeasurable speed feats, we can just admit this instead of assuming that the feats are suddenly null.
TheGreatJedi13
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A feat can mean more than just one ability. The more it happens the clearer what they are.
I can have as many showing of immeasurable speed feat but if it appeared more like im simply time travelling and do not exhibit any other mire nature of what makes it immeasurable than time travelling then am i truly immeasurable?
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@XXBenShapiroXx basically what Jedi said, if the dimension Chronoa's flying through is what lets her fly through different time periods in the first place then it already shoots the argument in the foot that they're naturally immeasurable, as they're reliant on an alternate dimension to do so rather than their own raw speed, which is supposed to be the whole point of immeasurable speed
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Can we prove the only reason they could do that is because they were in the Time Rift? This argument is relying on an assertion that hasn't been made yet.
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TheGreatJedi13
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We don't have to. We just asserted this to question other assumption that relies on something that lacks explanation and is vague.
and also add to the fact that they can be affected by Hit's Time skip.
even if we don't prove what you want. it puts a heavy suspicion on whether it is something that qualifies or not
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Flight speed in DB scales to combat speed. It was confirmed in the Daizenshuu that flight speed is related to the person's level of skill and the size of their ki, and it's literally just a basic ki manipulation technique. Funnily enough, even the wiki's own page for the DBZ manga actually notes how combat speed is superior to flight speed in DB, which would especially apply to the DDB hosts (Plus the obvious fact that these characters can fight while flying in the air and all).
As for the Chronoa feat, they're very clearly flying in the CoT as they have the "universal pose" for flight which even the Daizenshuu uses by showing Goku flying through the air in the exact same pose as Chronoa and Trunks. If they were simply just loitering around there because there is no ground, they'd look more like this since they'd just be floating motionless there. They're clearly heading/flying towards the Xeno Buu era to save Goku as that was their sole purpose at that time. As for the CoT, it's not like they can actually use it to time travel, idk where that argument stemmed from. The whole point of the CoT is that the people banished there can't affect time and timelines as it's outside of time entirely.
As for the Chronoa feat, they're very clearly flying in the CoT as they have the "universal pose" for flight which even the Daizenshuu uses by showing Goku flying through the air in the exact same pose as Chronoa and Trunks. If they were simply just loitering around there because there is no ground, they'd look more like this since they'd just be floating motionless there. They're clearly heading/flying towards the Xeno Buu era to save Goku as that was their sole purpose at that time. As for the CoT, it's not like they can actually use it to time travel, idk where that argument stemmed from. The whole point of the CoT is that the people banished there can't affect time and timelines as it's outside of time entirely.
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It's consistently stated that combat speed/Attack speed are significantly above flight speed since a ki blast is just releasing energy in it's purest form where as flight speed is using energy to move an object with more mass (The body to be specific). It's like using the same Kinetic energy to shoot a pebble vs throwing large boulder; same energy yield but one has more mass and thus much less velocity.
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Alright so then it'd be an equally weak questioning. Sorry. You make an assertion, back it up. Skepticism goes both ways.
Guacamolefletcher
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complete straw man of the position:
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Even if that’s the case you can still end up with DC flash speed tiering where combat applicable speed is MFTL+ but immeasurable when traveling through time even though he draws from UES in the form of the speed force.
TheGreatJedi13
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if you see that as a strawman then you missed the point of that example. you're the one that assumed I straw-manned it into the actual DBH feat
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A few members of the XV cast are being downgraded to 2-C while Immeasurable speed is currently discussed
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I have yet to see any evidence they don't scale, just loose skepticism based on nothing concrete or contradictions that have explanations.
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Nah, just FW1, Trunks, Demigra are.
However, all of the aftermentioned are getting a 2-A key thanks to XV2, anyways ....
So not really a downgrade, but rather a rejustification adjustement
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Okay. Thank you for the reply.
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Is this thread has reached conclusion ?
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Not a downgrade per se, more like a rejustification adjustement, as the XV1 characters will get 2-A keys due to XV2, and the justifications for XV 2-A Will change.
XV1 Demigra will also get 2-A key from enviromental destruction, and a key with 2-A stats Cuz of XV2.
And characters like Chronoa are not going to be downgraded neither
Only speed is left to be done, and I'm currently working on making new profiles for more XV characters
XV1 Demigra will also get 2-A key from enviromental destruction, and a key with 2-A stats Cuz of XV2.
And characters like Chronoa are not going to be downgraded neither
Only speed is left to be done, and I'm currently working on making new profiles for more XV characters
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Where is it stated?
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Literally everyone who studies Dragon Ball pretty much knows this, not only is it very consistent for even the most weakest Dragon Ball characters to have far better attack speed over flight speed and combat speed scaling to attack speed accordingly. And Null brought up a Kaizenshuu statement about using Ki for flight is the same for Ki for energy attacks but later conceded that Ki blasts are genuinely much faster due to being energy in it's pure form rather than carrying the body with Ki.
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DDM makes sense above
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Why can’t it apply here though ?
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Not to mention by the way, immeasurable speed can’t be quantifiably divided up and be completely different than your other speeds. Once you hit infinite speed and higher, your entire speed in all categories becomes relative to it (unless it’s something super specific like a technique only being that fast instead of any of your speed stats, but that isn’t the case here for this particular instance with DB)
So even without DBs own confirmation on flight speed, immeasurable speed should still scale all around either way.
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