Peak
He/Him- 2,136
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My point is, time skip is common for a character of immeasurable speed, so Hit's time skip shouldn't work at all, that's how I think, but honestly I'm neutral on this
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Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse - Downgrade about statistics
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
- Start date
- Status
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,447
There is no amount of reactive evolution that can make an ability that requires a linear flow of time to function work against immeasurable characters. The very nature of the ability makes it so that, unless there is extraordinary evidence as to why it can work against characters with immeasurable speed, you have to choose as to whether or not immeasurable speed or the time skip is the outlier here. And with the context of one of the main feats being done off-screen with no indication of how the feat was accomplished, I think it's more reasonable to say that immeasurable is the outlier here.
Also, has Hit's reactive evo ever done anything beyond increasing the length of his time skip or allowing him to use new techniques? It seems odd to assume that the nature of his evo would change as well, making it so he can modify his own abilities to an illogical extent. Doubly so since the prior arguments in favor of immeasurable were against assuming a character used abilities they've never directly been stated to possess, so it seems like there's a double standard here.
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- Thread starter
- #284
I am not against the idea of Time Hax working against Infinite/Immeasurable Speed, but Time Skip literally needs time to flow normally to even work. This is not even Time Stop, time still flows but is just skipped here.
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Aside from the fact that the argument of "Hit needs a normal flow of time" is a baseless assumption that came out of nowhere. Back it up with evidence,please.
The feats with the Dark Dragon Balls (and the other ones) aren't and they're consistent. So at worst, the Hit feat is the outlier, as it's the most recent one (UGM,2022) vs the others (DDRM, 2017-2018)
The feats with the Dark Dragon Balls (and the other ones) aren't and they're consistent. So at worst, the Hit feat is the outlier, as it's the most recent one (UGM,2022) vs the others (DDRM, 2017-2018)
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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that's uh, not how outliers work?????????????????
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The feats that are more consistent are the outliers then? Sorry but that's not how it works either.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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...No, I mean the release date for the outliers is rarely a factor, if at all.
Anyways the DDB feat is something I'm discounting anyways because it takes place off screen and nothing implies they physically traveled through time using nothing but speed. It's just unquantifiable.
You can't just assume Hit's time skip works against immeasurable characters without explaining why.
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Can somesome verify this? This clearly states without a doubt that the Dark Dragon Balls Flew to the different Eras
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Ok then, my bad.
We know how the Dragon Balls work by nature. There's literally 0 evidence they used portals or other bs and the statements imply pure physical flight.
What I'm trying to say is that the opposition is saying that this specific set of Dragon Balls is an exception to the rule. I am asking evidence of such a claim,which i still haven't seen.
I'll let Dagoth tackle the Hit stuff.
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
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the simple jump in time depends on the flow of time, it's the nature of the time skip, we don't need to prove it
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- Thread starter
- #292
It literally says that "X amount of time passes", it's the whole proof of it needing a flow of time passing.
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Yes, a flow of time. But nothing states that he specifically needs a normal flow of time.
The first claim is correct and doesn't need to be proven, the second is literally a baseless assumption. Especially when he has the feats on his side.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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The time in Hit's time skip progresses linearly, as we see it portrayed as such. Can you provide evidence of it working irregularly?
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
what do you mean by normal flow of time? Time is irrelevant to characters of immeasurable speed, time would literally be frozen, there would be no time flow, how is Hit going to jump on a time that doesn't move?
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Just noticed this btw, and it's wrong. Time Skip does stop time.
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- Thread starter
- #297
He did mention that the glass took 0.2 seconds to cover his body though.
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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Which doesn't matter because a being that can freely move through time, as immeasurable speed characters can, would not be affected by alterations in time. But they very clearly are, so...
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False. The wiki has long accepted that stronger time hax can affect Immeasurable speed characters. Even Strym has admitted that he's not against the idea
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Moving in zero time means a photon remains in the same place, which means you need infinite speed and this specific hax shouldnt work but this is fiction and theres something called potency. So its not really an anti feat for the speedster, its a feat for the hax user.
From what ive seen they , got the Feats and 5 year old friendly power system.
"Mftl+, Likely whatever speed" sounds fair ihmo
From what ive seen they , got the Feats and 5 year old friendly power system.
"Mftl+, Likely whatever speed" sounds fair ihmo
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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You can't just say "hax potency lol" every time a contradiction exists. There needs to be additional context as to why such a contradiction exists in-universe. Does the series ever explain why Hit can freeze people who can move through time like it's nothing? Does it ever elaborate on the mechanics of his ability in such a way that it would reasonably work on immeasurable characters? This is all just assuming the highest possible end with nothing backing it up. No evidence has been shown for how or why time manipulation consistently works on characters who should be immune.
To give an example, Goku breaks out of Hit's time stop not long after being initially affected by it. It isn't treated as a contradiction because the verse explains why that happened. Does Dragon Ball Heroes do the same? Based on the lack of scans I've been seeing, I'm going to guess not.
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This is the biggest reversal of burden of proof I've ever seen.
This's got me thinking about a lot of speed ratings on the wiki...
This's got me thinking about a lot of speed ratings on the wiki...
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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I mean if a verse is reliant on off-screen speed feats and there are hard contradictions to those feats then yeah, the ratings should be nuked. Glad we agree on something.
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I've seen it on another thread where if time hax affect immeasurable speed characters, that just means that the time hax is potent enough to effect them.
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Yes, there is a very clear explanation. Hit and his Time-Skip have evolved. His time hax is objectively far superior to what it was at the start of U6 arc and even the ToP as I have shown feats of him affecting superior characters.
Also, funny how you still claim that the DDB feats were "off-screen" when they're shown on-screen to have physically flown away from the Demon Realm. "Off-screen portals" is literally textbook headcanon
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Exactly. It's a feat unless proven otherwise,not the other way around.
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They're stated to have flown/flew in every form of media relating to the feat, which is briefly shown visually in the animated PV for the game. No mention of portals, no mention of teleportation. Statements count too and are not contradicted
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The DDB's transcended space-time/time axis via physical flight so yes
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Quick question, where exactly is this crystal realm here? Because it looks like the crack of time.
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- Thread starter
- #312
Yeah, this is why I have stopped to reply.
Because Discord is not Immeasurable despite doing that from flying, and thus the standards seem in shake again lol.
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I agree with you, it's all about whatever the standards are lol. Can find contradictory examples in profiles so idk
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I'm genuinely not seeing any concrete reason to nuke immeasurable speed rating.
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what is the original reason that this was rejected? I'm legitimately curious
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flying through different time periods is immeasurable speeds
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Via speed)
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Time will become irrelevant to you with immeasurable speed. So stopping reversing slowing speed will not affect you and being affected isn't hax potency. It is contradiction. Unless there is a 2nd higher temporal dimension where the immeasurable speed is still bound to but we cannot assume that existence.
Lastly it being contradiction puts immeasurable speed into question hence it could be downgraded to merely time travel. There are multiple ways to get immeasurable speed. And there are multiple ways your immeasurable speed is contested/contradicted. We take all those and make evaluate case by case. As of now. Hit time skip working is a heavy contradiction. Immeasurable speed has strict standard. Just like other abilities like acausality type 5 or nep type 2.
Tbh it could be downgraded to time travel because it shows they do not possess other factors of what makes character immeasurable and only its capability to time travel
Lastly it being contradiction puts immeasurable speed into question hence it could be downgraded to merely time travel. There are multiple ways to get immeasurable speed. And there are multiple ways your immeasurable speed is contested/contradicted. We take all those and make evaluate case by case. As of now. Hit time skip working is a heavy contradiction. Immeasurable speed has strict standard. Just like other abilities like acausality type 5 or nep type 2.
Tbh it could be downgraded to time travel because it shows they do not possess other factors of what makes character immeasurable and only its capability to time travel
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- Thread starter
- #319
Here and here
Basically the reason why this was rejected is because there's no proof of his Immeasurable flight speed scaling to his combat speed.
So, is there a proof that the Dark Dragon Balls speed scales to the fighting speed of the characters anyways, and not something like The Ray or any version of Flash here?
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