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Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse - Downgrade about statistics

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God900 said:
Not a downgrade per se, more like a rejustification adjustement, as the XV1 characters will get 2-A keys due to XV2, and the justifications for XV 2-A Will change.

XV1 Demigra will also get 2-A key from enviromental destruction, and a key with 2-A stats Cuz of XV2.

And characters like Chronoa are not going to be downgraded neither

Only speed is left to be done, and I'm currently working on making new profiles for more XV characters
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Antvasima said:
Anyone?
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And also the Inmensurable speed which seems accepted.

As DDM and other Staff seem to agree with this
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Not to mention by the way, immeasurable speed can’t be quantifiably divided up and be completely different than your other speeds. Once you hit infinite speed and higher, your entire speed in all categories becomes relative to it (unless it’s something super specific like a technique only being that fast instead of any of your speed stats, but that isn’t the case here for this particular instance with DB)

So even without DBs own confirmation on flight speed, immeasurable speed should still scale all around either way.
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https://vsbattles.com/threads/infinite-speed-question-flight-and-reactions.135499/

Funny... Just was looking at this thread and then I saw your post.
 
Basically if a character has infinite flight/travel speed, they inherently get infinite combat and reaction speed. Except for attack speed.
 
Hummm..Combat speed and Attack speed are almost the same.

Just that Combat speed lumps more aspects along Attack speed, such as reaction speed.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Not to mention by the way, immeasurable speed can’t be quantifiably divided up and be completely different than your other speeds. Once you hit infinite speed and higher, your entire speed in all categories becomes relative to it (unless it’s something super specific like a technique only being that fast instead of any of your speed stats, but that isn’t the case here for this particular instance with DB)

So even without DBs own confirmation on flight speed, immeasurable speed should still scale all around either way.
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That's a good point
 
God900 said:
Hummm..Combat speed and Attack speed are almost the same.

Just that Combat speed lumps more aspects along Attack speed, such as reaction speed.
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Attack speed is how fast an attack moves. "For example, X character is hypersonic, but he can do an attack that is a natural beam of light, the speed for the attack is different from the speed of the user, hence the attack would be lightspeed even if its user isn't."

Combat speed is "The speed at which a character can fight."

I don't think they are even closely the same... As stated in the thread, if character X has infinite or immeasurable combat speed, they will also get the same ratings in flight, travel, reaction but not attack speed, because the attack itself differs from character X.
 
YoPercy said:
Attack speed is how fast an attack moves. "For example, X character is hypersonic, but he can do an attack that is a natural beam of light, the speed for the attack is different from the speed of the user, hence the attack would be lightspeed even if its user isn't."

Combat speed is "The speed at which a character can fight."

I don't think they are even closely the same... As stated in the thread, if character X has infinite or immeasurable combat speed, they will also get the same ratings in flight, travel, reaction but not attack speed, because the attack itself differs from character X.
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Yeah, you are right. I just thought that if someone had infinite combat speed for example, their attacks would also be that level.
 
Antvasima said:
Combat speed does not automatically translate into flight or running (travel) speed as far as I am aware.
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You're right, it doesn't. Except if said character is infinite/immeasurable in one of those aspects.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/infinite-speed-question-flight-and-reactions.135499/
Check the second post in this thread for a better understanding.^

Edit: Also @KLOL506 , stated the same thing.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/infinite-speed-upgrade-for-maou-gakuin-characters.138682/#post-4879534
(Sorry for bring in another verse...)
 
YoPercy said:
You're right, it doesn't. Except if said character is infinite/immeasurable in one of those aspects.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/infinite-speed-question-flight-and-reactions.135499/
Check the second post in this thread for a better understanding.^
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This. So Ant is half right for speeds MFTL and under

But like I mentioned and what this thread mentions, infinite speed and higher has every speed category scale to it since infinite anything divided by anything is still infinite, and can’t be quantifiably divided up into something different. Same with Immeasurable Speed and beyond.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
This. So Ant is half right for speeds MFTL and under

But like I mentioned and what this thread mentions, infinite speed and higher has every speed category scale to it since infinite anything divided by anything is still infinite, and can’t be quantifiably divided up into something different.
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👍
 
@Dagoth_OwO so it is in the crack of time, can I ask why exactly are they flying through the crack of time to go to another timeline because this entire scene makes it heavily imply they need to go through this realm to time travel in the first place, which makes solid immeasurable speed questionable if they aren't doing it on their own with literal raw speed.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO so it is in the crack of time, can I ask why exactly are they flying through the crack of time to go to another timeline because this entire scene makes it heavily imply they need to go through this realm to time travel in the first place, which makes solid immeasurable speed questionable if they aren't doing it on their own with literal raw speed.
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The CoT itself is a place where time doesn't intervene and where time/timelines can't be affected from as stated by Demigra so they can't just use it to timeline hop or anything. They went there to get away from the Demon Gods since it's a safe place, nothing more.
 
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Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO so it is in the crack of time, can I ask why exactly are they flying through the crack of time to go to another timeline because this entire scene makes it heavily imply they need to go through this realm to time travel in the first place, which makes solid immeasurable speed questionable if they aren't doing it on their own with literal raw speed.
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What implies they need to go there in particular? I have yet to see a reason. This seems like they went there because it was safe, not because they could only perform those feats because of some side effect of the CoT that's never been stated or implied.
 
@XXBenShapiroXx because the following scans just show them heading over to Goku for aid which they're in the crack of time to do so, and again I've yet to see anything that remotely implies they travel through time with raw speed alone, especially when portals are being used for them to travel through time and not speed.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@XXBenShapiroXx because the following scans just show them heading over to Goku for aid which they're in the crack of time to do so, and again I've yet to see anything that remotely implies they travel through time with raw speed alone, especially when portals are being used for them to travel through time and not speed.
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I've already addressed the Dark Dragon Ball part from the doc. They didn't use portals, nor were they implied to have used them, while they were visually shown and stated to have physically flown away. Do you have any new arguments?
 
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Theglassman12 said:
@XXBenShapiroXx because the following scans just show them heading over to Goku for aid which they're in the crack of time to do so, and again I've yet to see anything that remotely implies they travel through time with raw speed alone, especially when portals are being used for them to travel through time and not speed.
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And how exactly does that imply it's the CoT that let them do that? Is there a statement or remark I'm missing? Your hearing hoofbeats and thinking of zebras when it's just horses.

Give me a picture, a scan, anything that remotely implies that it was the Crack of Time that let them do this, because so far I haven't seen anything.

And the portal argument has already been addressed and debunked.
 
The literal visual showings of them using portals to go through time as opposed to raw speed, with trunks and Xenoku going back to namek to see frieza killing goku.
 
Theglassman12 said:
The literal visual showings of them using portals to go through time as opposed to raw speed, with trunks and Xenoku going back to namek to see frieza killing goku.
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In an entirely different situation compared to them traveling from the Crack of Time to intercept an attack in a combat situation. You have yet to provide me with evidence it was the Crack of Time that allowed them to do that feat. You pointed me to an entirely different situation.
 
Theglassman12 said:
That doesn't debunk my points with Chronoa, the DDB isn't what I'm focusing on, I'm focusing on Chronoa going through time since that's one of the 5 arguments being used for immeasurable speed DBH.
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I already posted the statements from Demigra that time can't be affected from the CoT and it doesn't intervene there. How exactly can the CoT be used for time travel when you can't even affect the timelines themselves through the CoT? The whole point of the CoT is that the people sealed there can't affect time, which is why Demigra, Sealas and etc. were sealed there
 
@XXBenShapiroXx was the attack going through time and they reacted to it? Because time travelling to an event to stop someone from hitting wouldn't really be immeasurable as again with the portals they could just make it in time to stop the attack.

@Dagoth_OwO The second scan also mentions gods not intervening there so that doesn't really tell me that time itself cannot intervene, just that the people in charge of the timelines don't intervene there. And again the portal scans above, is there any debunk here cause I'd like to see that.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@XXBenShapiroXx was the attack going through time and they reacted to it? Because time travelling to an event to stop someone from hitting wouldn't really be immeasurable as again with the portals they could just make it in time to stop the attack.

@Dagoth_OwO The second scan also mentions gods not intervening there so that doesn't really tell me that time itself cannot intervene, just that the people in charge of the timelines don't intervene there. And again the portal scans above, is there any debunk here cause I'd like to see that.
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We never see any portals in that scene. Which brings me back to my point for the 5th time, you have yet to provide evidence it was the Crack of time that allowed them to do that. We don't see any portals, and they are in the flying position. You keep rewording old arguments into new ones.
 
Theglassman12 said:
The second scan also mentions gods not intervening there so that doesn't really tell me that time itself cannot intervene, just that the people in charge of the timelines don't intervene there. And again the portal scans above, is there any debunk here cause I'd like to see that.
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Most of the Gods can't intervene in the CoT because it's outside of time entirely and they can't reach it. And as for the portal scans, are you trying to imply that using portals is an anti-feat for immeasurable speed? If you are then no, it's literally just a matter of convenience which is the same reason why even DBS Goku uses teleportation to cross cities.
 
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Dagoth_OwO said:
Most of the Gods can't intervene in the CoT because it's outside of time entirely and they can't reach it. And as for the portal scans, are you trying to imply that using portals is an anti-feat for immeasurable speed? If you are then no, it's literally just a matter of convenience which is the same reason why even DBS Goku uses teleportation to cross cities.
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Teleportation is useful in general because it's simpler than using movement. Reappearing in a different place can be advantageous compared to having to use your movement to get there.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Teleportation is useful in general because it's simpler than using movement. Reappearing in a different place can be advantageous compared to having to use your movement to get there.
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Yeah, but we're talking about IT, which is very subtle and quick compared to opening a giant ass portal in the middle of a fight. Portals have never been used in combat situation if I remember correctly.
 
@Dagoth_OwO a matter of convenience isn't an argument, especially if they can run through time and appear at any point in time to help out anyone with any event. Also teleporting is not the same as literally going back in time to prevent something from happening, especially when you can do it via raw speed. Is there actual showings of them moving through time with raw speed alone or not?

@XXBenShapiroXx A flying position means nothing here, Ok? We literally see them use portals to get to the Namek saga, why would us not seeing it onscreen makes us think they didn't use portals when that's shown how they time travel in general? Do you have any actual statements or onscreen showings they moved through time with raw speed because
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO a matter of convenience isn't an argument, especially if they can run through time and appear at any point in time to help out anyone with any event. Also teleporting is not the same as literally going back in time to prevent something from happening, especially when you can do it via raw speed. Is there actual showings of them moving through time with raw speed alone or not?

@XXBenShapiroXx A flying position means nothing here, Ok? We literally see them use portals to get to the Namek saga, why would us not seeing it onscreen makes us think they didn't use portals when that's shown how they time travel in general? Do you have any actual statements or onscreen showings they moved through time with raw speed because
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Okay then, where were the portals when Chorona traveled to intercept the attack? Why would she use portals in a combat situation when that's never been done before. In the xenoverse games everytime someone leaves a fight, a small cutscene plays of them flying off into who knows where, no portal. You have one instance of them using portals in a non combat situation.

We do have feats actual showings of them moving through time to intercept attacks, but they are being disregarded by a very shaky 'they use portals this one time when they weren't in a hurry' arguement. Nevermind we don't see these same portals whenever Chorona and Trunks moved from the CoT to intercept attacks.

So yes, there are feats of them doing this, but 'the portal we don't see and are never used that quick' argument has been recycled again.
 
Flying off to who knows where is not a debunk dude, especially when they can just open a portal at a place where no one would spot them so as to not mess with the timeline any further than needed, unless there's statements that when they fly off they literally move through time itself with their raw speed. I have 2 instances, one with Goku and trunks going to namek, and the other with vegeta and trunks going through a portal again.

If so show me the feats/scans that they are moving through time. If you can give me the scans that they are actually moving through time when trying to help out anyone or stop the alterations in the timeline then I won't touch immeasurable speed DBH.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Flying off to who knows where is not a debunk dude, especially when they can just open a portal at a place where no one would spot them so as to not mess with the timeline any further than needed, unless there's statements that when they fly off they literally move through time itself with their raw speed. I have 2 instances, one with Goku and trunks going to namek, and the other with vegeta and trunks going through a portal again.

If so show me the feats/scans that they are moving through time. If you can give me the scans that they are actually moving through time when trying to help out anyone or stop the alterations in the timeline then I won't touch immeasurable speed DBH.
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That's entirely misrepresenting my argument, the point was that they aren't going to open a portal in the middle of a fight. And saying they fly off somewhere else to open a portal is some heavy duty conjecture. In both instance you mentioned, they were opened in no rush and not a mid fight situation.

Chorona flew from CoT, outside time, to intercept and save someone, and Trunks did the same by blocking an attack for Vegeta. There are your feats. You just don't like them. There are no portals to be seen in both instances I mentioned.
 
I literally never said they opened a portal in the middle of the fight, I said them flying away to who knows where doesn’t mean they flew through time with speed alone, especially when we know how they time travel.

No I just don’t find them concrete as nothing implies they were moving through time with speed alone. Saying “you don’t like it” isn’t an argument.
 
So regarding those scans, can someone explain why Vegeta needs Chronoa to send them all to a point in history when the argument being made is that they can all fly through time? Like, if Vegeta is immeasurable, then why does he need someone else to do the time traveling for him? This seems like a much more blatant confirmation of characters lacking the ability to literally fly through time than the portal stuff imo
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