Dragon Ball: Finite Universe

[omegabronic]

this is the speed calced by @JustANormalLemon in the thread that i have linked here before

"If universe 7 total size is the same of the observable universe...

Bill x Goku universe 7 destruction speed

8.7984793395e+26 meters (O.U diameter)
30 s accept time stamp of the feat

8.7984793395e+26 meters / 30 s = 2,93282645e+25 m/s

9,7828560116745840e+16 times the speed of light"

if someone could show the accepted multiplier scaling and then aply this value that would be great, as i have no idea of what it is currently accepted

 

[Nostredam]

Don't know why people are derailing the thread arguing if Kaioshin Realm is Tier 2 or not. This has zero relevance to the topic whatsoever. It's better wait this thread end soon, if it was accepted.

 

[Robo432343]

this thread should be closed, it has been accepted by staff already

 

[Ped2018]

Don't know why people are derailing the thread arguing if Kaioshin Realm is Tier 2 or not. This has zero relevance to the topic whatsoever. It's better wait this thread end soon, if it was accepted.

Yeah, but is there any changes that have to be made?

 

[omegabronic]

Don't know why people are derailing the thread arguing if Kaioshin Realm is Tier 2 or not. This has zero relevance to the topic whatsoever. It's better wait this thread end soon, if it was accepted.

this is the speed calced by @JustANormalLemon in the thread that i have linked here before

"If universe 7 total size is the same of the observable universe...

Bill x Goku universe 7 destruction speed

8.7984793395e+26 meters (O.U diameter)
30 s accept time stamp of the feat

8.7984793395e+26 meters / 30 s = 2,93282645e+25 m/s

9,7828560116745840e+16 times the speed of light"

if someone could show the accepted multiplier scaling and then aply this value that would be great, as i have no idea of what it is currently accepted

i agree, do you know of someone who could do this?, it is very important for the speed of everyone in the verse in dbs

 

[omegabronic]

Yeah, but is there any changes that have to be made?

this is the speed calced by @JustANormalLemon in the thread that i have linked here before

"If universe 7 total size is the same of the observable universe...

Bill x Goku universe 7 destruction speed

8.7984793395e+26 meters (O.U diameter)
30 s accept time stamp of the feat

8.7984793395e+26 meters / 30 s = 2,93282645e+25 m/s

9,7828560116745840e+16 times the speed of light"

if someone could show the accepted multiplier scaling and then aply this value that would be great, as i have no idea of what it is currently accepted

i have been litterally saying that there is for the last entire page

 

[Ped2018]

i have been litterally saying that there is for the last entire page

OP may want to tackle this in a new crt, i'm just asking.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

if someone could show the accepted multiplier scaling and then aply this value that would be great, as i have no idea of what it is currently accepted

It's on the profiles

Son Goku (DBS Anime)

Son Goku is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries. He is a Saiyan sent to Earth as a baby by his father Bardock to escape the destruction of the planet Vegeta and the Saiyan race. Adopted by Grandpa Gohan, he became a kind-hearted boy after he bumped his head, starting his great...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Massively FTL+ (At least 196 quadrillion c, likely at least 39.2 sextillion c)

 

[Nostredam]

Yeah, but is there any changes that have to be made?

Remove all High 3-A rantings on Dragon Ball profiles. Also nuke the idea (even though everyone here disagrees with, I think) of the characters having Infinite Speed (despite not being something on the profiles).

i agree, do you know of someone who could do this?, it is very important for the speed of everyone in the verse in dbs

I don't, unfortunately. In the future, I can make a CRT about the speed rantings in Dragon Ball Super, since I disagree with the BoG shockwave feat being applicable to the characters' speed. However, that's something I don't want to touch for now.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't, unfortunately. In the future, I can make a CRT about the speed rantings in Dragon Ball Super, since I disagree with the BoG shockwave feat being applicable to the characters' speed. However, that's something I don't want to touch for now.

You are as close to objectively wrong as possible when it comes to this point

I think in the case of this CRT, the profiles that are affected are Toei Goku, Toei Vegeta, Hirudegarn, Janemba, Broly... and idk who else tbh

 

[BetterThanYou]

It's ratings, not rantings.

 

[Ped2018]

It's ratings, not rantings.

Minor spelling mistake, @Nostredam delete your account

 

[CloverDragon03]

Minor speeling mistake, @Nostredam delete your account

Spelling*

Delete yours now

 

[Ped2018]

Spelling*

Delete yours now

Fuuuuuu

 

[omegabronic]

You are as close to objectively wrong as possible when it comes to this point

I think in the case of this CRT, the profiles that are affected are Toei Goku, Toei Vegeta, Hirudegarn, Janemba, Broly... and idk who else tbh

every dbs profile ever in speed, since the only reason they weren't changed yet was because of the universe being accepted as infinite in size, now that this is not a thing, we need to change the speed ratings based on the new calc of the thread i linked here earlier

 

[Kroneii1]

In this context tho, it refers to a very specific and singular location where the SDBs are, so there is only a single center

Mmm not sure if that changes anything, the equidistant distance would still be infinite.

 

[BetterThanYou]

Minor spelling mistake, @Nostredam delete your account

Bruh he has been using "rantings" on many of his posts. It wasn't a one time error

 

[CloverDragon03]

every dbs profile ever in speed, since the only reason they weren't changed yet was because of the universe being accepted as infinite in size, now that this is not a thing, we need to change the speed ratings based on the new calc of the thread i linked here earlier

I've seen you mention this repeatedly. Your new speed calc is irrelevant to the discussion of infinite-sized Universe 7 since DBS characters weren't rated at Infinite speed

 

[omegabronic]

I've seen you mention this repeatedly. Your new speed calc is irrelevant to the discussion of infinite-sized Universe 7 since DBS characters weren't rated at Infinite speed

yeah, you know what? fine, i will make a new thread to implement that then, it would have been easier to do it here but, i guess that is just the way of things

 

[CloverDragon03]

yeah, you know what? fine, i will make a new thread to implement that then, it would have been easier to do it here but, i guess that is just the way of things

Yeah that'd be best, especially for something like this since it's comparing one calc to another. That'd probably require a Calc Discussion Thread rather than a CRT

 

[Nostredam]

You are as close to objectively wrong as possible when it comes to this point

I think in the case of this CRT, the profiles that are affected are Toei Goku, Toei Vegeta, Hirudegarn, Janemba, Broly... and idk who else tbh

Toei Vegeta does not have an High 3-A key.

Also:

Mira

Broly (DBH)

Demigra

Future Warrior

Future Warrior (X2)

Hatchiyack

Hero (UT)

Probably I'm missing some. IDK.

It's ratings, not rantings.

English is not my native language.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Toei Vegeta does not have an High 3-A key.

Also:

Mira

Broly (DBH)

Demigra

Future Warrior

Future Warrior (X2)

Hatchiyack

Hero (UT)

Probably I'm missing some. IDK.

Somehow I forgot about like, half of these guys

 

[BetterThanYou]

English is not my native language.

No worries mate. I was just correcting you, not mocking.

 

[Nostredam]

Anyway ... I think this thread can die now. I'm done.

 

[Ped2018]

Anyway ... I think this thread can die now. I'm done.

Yeah



now you're going back to being clapped by ultima in the cthullus thread

 

[Ringki_64]

well now that this thread is being closed
let me give you guys a really good gag manga recommendation

"A Manga About The Kind Of Pe Teacher Who Dies At The Start Of A School Horror Movie"​

i hope this closes fr

 

[Ped2018]

well now that this thread is being closed
let me give you guys a really good gag manga recommendation

"A Manga About The Kind Of Pe Teacher Who Dies At The Start Of A School Horror Movie"​

i hope this closes fr

We still have to apply the changes you goon

 

[Ringki_64]

We still have to apply the changes you goon

well the argument is over
and i think the changes are done in a new crt

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I mean, if the OP presumed that every supporting detail towards Dragon Ball's infinite universe is a hyperbole or metaphor I could also argue that Bulma's statement was also an allegory. Since a figuration of speech as "edge of the universe" could also be a non-literal speech.

5 pages for hyperboles and metaphors? Yikes.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Heaven's accepted as being the size of the universe right? The Kaioshin Realm's size is 1/10th of the Afterlife+Universe combined.

Considering how small Heaven is to the scope of the entire Afterlife (literally you can see how numerous Heavens would fit in the space shown here alone), the Kaioshin Realm still probably reaches universal size.

Ayo that shitsphere be infinite in size?

5 pages for hyperboles and metaphors? Yikes.

**** poetry, like fr

 

[ImmortalDread]

I'm not sure if the people who agreed in this CRT either:

1. Agreed mostly because the reason of the statements being misinterpretation.
2. Agreed mostly because the Inconsistencies section.
3. Agreed equally to the two above.

If most of the people here agreed mostly because of the inconsistencies in the series, I think the next CRT I'll make about DB will be much more simple than this one. Regardless, thanks to everyone who participate.

I am the one with 2, I disagree the reasons from number 1

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Anyway ... I think this thread can die now. I'm done.

Speaking of which, hasn't it been 48 hours already? This can already be added and then closed.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Anyway, what's important with those informations is that Hateshinai is a figurative term of japanese to talk about an infinite element.

I can't believe this is an actual argument. Most phrases will be figuratively/non-literal, because there's not much that's actually infinite (if anything at all). This does not prove the word can't be used literally. In fact, multiple dictionaries, including one you linked, use "the endless/infinite universe" as an example phrase as well.

The universe is explicitly noted to have an edge and an center, meaning it's obviously not infinite

This is the only argument that's ever used to point out an inconsistency. But an infinite universe can have and edge and technically a center as well. I.e. this does not refute the universe being infinite.

No clue how this is getting accepted. Disagree fra.

 

[Hiryu-Z]

But it is not universal in size, so now BOG feat is baseline 2-C

I think Toei SSJ3 Goku will now be 3-A instead of High 3-A

 

[Fezzih_007]

No clue how this is getting accepted. Disagree fra.

The inconsistent section, i think people agree on basis of that. Since mostly everyone is arguing about the translation problem, i think no one have a problem with the inconsistences.

 

[StekFence]

echnically a center as well. I.e. this does not refute the universe being infinite.

It wouldn’t have a single center tho, which is what DBS describe, it would have infinite centers

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

It wouldn’t have a single center tho, which is what DBS describe, it would have infinite centers

But tht still ignores tht Jaco told here, thts not possible due to how big the universe was. He literally said it had countless galaxies .

We already talked bout the "edge" being before the full infinite size of the universe.

Yakon lives past the "edge". It's not inconsistent. Like all tht been discussed nd countered in the other threads.

Either way tho, u7 is 2c in cosmology period. Infinite or finite. Even tho it's infinite. For speed, just say tht mfs who scale to the omnidirectional ki mass as insanely massive mftl+ nd call it a day. Save ya headache.

Thts all ima say tho.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I mean, eventualy someone will make a Thread to upgrade the universe again, so we can talk about this Topic again in the Future, this Thread already accepted.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

some of them even objectively incorrect.

First, disingenous start to a thread, as it's already framing your view as objective when it can never be within fiction.

but I also find the arguments pretty much weak and some of them even objectively incorrect

I'll be the judge.

Please note that in Daizenshuu 7's scan, the kanji い is missing and it's substituted with く, forming 果てし無く, which means "eternally; interminably".

Doesn't refute that other scan.

Anyway, what's important with those informations is that Hateshinai is a figurative term of japanese to talk about an infinite element. To explain this thesis, I will use three reliable dictionaries that demonstrates how the term applies within a sentence:

The argument never relied on this. Clear strawman, it was more used for consistency.

The next quotes are those two from Daizenshuu 4:

You use a mistranslation, as the scan does NOT say expanding but rather says extends.

literally infinite in size, but it's expanding infinitely

untrue.

Something that is expanding is something that is constantly growing, not something that is already big (in this case, infinite). Saying it is literally infinite would be just an textual misinterpretation of what the wording is referring to.

Untrue based on what we know, also the kanji says TO EXTEND. We know this is true based on the actual kanji and the lore. The only way it's not contradicting is if we take it as to extend. Heaven = universe in size, and yet it doesn't grow in size.

The Linguee dictionary shows phrases commonly associated with that word, and it is very clear that none of them are being used similarly to as an literal adjective to describe something infinite in size (at least with standard measures of space). They are all figuratively endless/infinite.

Doesn't matter too, strawman of the point, they were simply added as evidence. That whole section was compeltely meaningless and a useless attempt to downgrade.

I'll be straightforward here: This is just an poetic description of the universe. The Daizenshuu 4 translator himself says this, therefore it's not literal:

Clearly not, based on the other statements.

Also, it's worth noting that the canocity of said cover art is heavily dubious, as this page section of Daizenshuu 4 was considered so irrelevant that it wasn't even included in Chozenshu, which is the remake of Daizenshuu and, as people may know, it's reviewed by Akira Toriyama himself.

Doesn't matter, the evidence is still there, and just because they don't include it doesn't mean it's non canon. Toriyama doesn't even factor into this conversation, he doesn't even know stuff from his own series anymore.

The universe is explicitly noted to have an edge and an center, meaning it's obviously not infinite:

NOT A REAL CONTRADICTION.

Meaning that claiming it is the "observable universe" is a flawed logic contradicted by the own authors' intention.

Toei website =/= author.

As people may know, the premisse of the Dragon Ball franchise is that characters can get stronger by finite and limited attributes such as training, transformations' multipliers, etc. Looking at the Toei side of this, the notion of the characters having an High 3-A ranting absurdly skips through tiering levels, as from a moment to another one can skip a 4-B level of power to straight up infinite levels of power by having power ups that are clearly not an infinite attribute booster. For example, in Toei's Goku page it is said this:

Woah, a complete sidetrack for an argument that doesn't even make sense. Nothing gatekeeps them from getting infinitely stronger in their training. Not a real contradiction whatsoever, that's basically just how you want the series to be. If the lore suggests this, which it does, then it is what it is. You're just saying this without actually substantiating why they can't have an infinite power jump.

I agree it's completely an issue in the profiles, and saying there's an infinite power gap there is just wrong, but nothing gatekeeps base goku from being high 3-A too.

The Dragon Ball Universe is potrayed to as having finite size by both statements and author's intentions. Nearly all the scans of it having an infinite size are either out of context or misinterpretated. High 3-A rantings should vanish because of that. And, obviously, there's 0 room for debate about the characters having Infinite Speed for supposedly crossing an infinite universe.

Nope, you're saying they're misinterpreted, and you haven't provided SOLID EVIDENCE that the DB universe is finite, considering the statements. Having an edge doesn't matter, it can still be infinite, and your Bulma arguments aren't nearly as solid as you think they are. Furthermore, looking back they're significantly weaker considering that "throughout universe 7" isn't even literal, considering they don't search in otherworld or the kaioshin realm. Evidently, anyone that knows how the dragon ball cosmology actually works, understands that universe 7 as a whole isn't where the super dragon balls were located, and hence this misinterpretation of the statements doesn't hold up.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The OP makes sense to me. I'm in favor of it for now, but will see what responses are made.

More arguments were given and Op was refuted, could you give your opinion again ?